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  1. #1

    Thoughts about the Noble Tunic

    First of all, I want to say that I support the freedom of speech, so you have the right to post anything you wish on your webpage. I'm not friends of Heartily or Soi, i don't know them, it's merely from a view of an outsider.

    What Heartily did was unethical, but she did buy it fair and square. The auction house was working normally at the time, there were no errors. Therefore I dont' think it's right to call her a thief and saying that she stole the tunic from worldx. Stealing would be if Heartily asked to borrow the tunic and never returns it, or if she hacks worldx's acct.(That's an interesting thought) I'm sure if it was someone else other than Heartily that bought the tunic for 1mil, 80% of the time that person will not return it as well. (For example, someone else bought a tunic for 1k right afterwards, I'm not sure if it was returned, but if it wasn't, shouldn't he deserve frontpage flaming also?) Does that mean 80% of us are thiefs because we would've done the same thing that Heartily did if we were in her shoes?

    With the new auction house system after the update, it's bizzare that people are still making this kind of mistakes. The ah makes you comfirm twice if you want to sell. One would think that if the person didn't realize one less 0 on the transaction fee, they would realize it when it asks him the second time. Worldx just made a dumb mistake, and it's unfortunate that he got caught by some bad people.

    Liquidday lost his tunic also. The sad part was he wasn't trying to sell it, he was showing off by selling it to himself. Congratulations liquid, you're ONLY the 79th whm on bahamut to obtain nobles, and the 2nd person in as many days to lose it.

    j/k, good luck getting that person to return that tunic, 1k really sucks compare to 1.4mil.

  2. #2
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    Well, of course chances are that 80% of people who take advantage of that mistake won't return it. However, I find it in very bad spirits that this is the 2nd time this has happened with Heartily, and the last time it happened she didn't return the item either. I could understand maybe someone cutting it by a few mil, but that one less zero is obviously a typo. It's not "illegal" in any sense but it's a good way to make a lot of people dislike you.

    As far as Liquidday's noble's goes, it's too bad that that happened but that's the risk you take when you make a show sale, especially on a high-demand item, especially when it's quite possible people *could* just use AH bots to intentionally take advantage of situations like this.

    All I can say is be very careful about this kind of stuff, because there are obviously people who are looking to take advantage of it.

  3. #3

    ah makes you comfirm twice if you want to sell.
    Totally agree with this. This was implemented to prevent noob mistakes. If you're still making noob mistakes this late in the game, you deserve to learn a lesson.

    In terms of Heartily, well haven't you ever bid on an item with 1 or even 2 less 0's? Its only 10 seconds out of your life to try. Everyone looks for a deal, its in human nature to do so, especially when you're in a screwed up economy. I don't see how this should garner your a bad reputation (unless she was a gilseller!). She's more like someone who won't the lottery. Why should she give it back? She obviously took the time to try over and over again.

    Simply put, if you do not want people to profit off these transactions, don't let these things happen in the first place!

  4. #4

    It isn't technically wrong by the rules of the game to do what they did. But it is shady as hell - going(botting maybe? this has happened more than once) through the AH bidding 10% on everything, intending to profit by screwing someone over, knowing that once you've profitted off someones mistake you're going to call it "fair and square" and refuse to give it back. The reason I posted is that it should be wrong, but there's nothing anyone can do about it because Square has no sense of in game ethics whatsoever. Which is why Kirin can be stolen if it goes unclaimed, why on Phoenix KB can be ninja'ed at 1% and have all the loot go to some retard ranger with an icarus wing, and why on Midgard Tiamat can be Dia'ed and Called for help on three times in the same night and the best response Square has is "if the claim is lost it's fair game."

    SekaixLS deserved the right price for the noble's because they either camped KB or built a Kirin set by their own work, which is how Shining is supposed to be obtained. Someone who was probably tired missed the price and so just like a mob going yellow, yes, it's technically "fair game," but it is robbing someone of what they deserve by not giving it back. If Liquidday didn't get his back, then screw the person who ganked it, they're as low as Heartily and Soi too.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethsbane
    ah makes you comfirm twice if you want to sell.
    Totally agree with this. This was implemented to prevent noob mistakes. If you're still making noob mistakes this late in the game, you deserve to learn a lesson.
    Their LS put hundreds of man hours into camping pop items during times with 10 other JP LSes competing for the NMs, killing the gods, killing kirin, and because someone who probably hadn't slept in 3 days made a mistake... they deserve it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethsbane
    In terms of Heartily, well haven't you ever bid on an item with 1 or even 2 less 0's? Its only 10 seconds out of your life to try. Everyone looks for a deal, its in human nature to do so, especially when you're in a screwed up economy.
    Every social science disagrees with you. What you call "human nature" is entirely relative to where you happened to be born and into what family. But as long as people use this type of shit as an excuse to say it's "normal" and the majority does it, I thank you for contributing to the downfall of humanity.

    Heartily was just trying to sidestep a screwed up economy, is that it? Screwed up as in, charging 14m gil for an item that takes hundreds and hundreds of man hours into obtaining? It's obvious what kind of person Heartily is, especially with the fact that he's done this with Verm before too. Heartily is the type of person who convolutes their logic to justify abusing a flawed system to take advantage of other people to their own advancement. And it's now obvious that those type of people are more than welcome in HokutenLS.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by joft
    I guess those type of people are more than welcome in HokutenLS.
    Joft STFU and leave the LS out of it.

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    It's customary any time someone does anything like this to try to get them kicked from their LS, I was simply observing a time honored tradition

  9. #9

    i agree with what joft said up to the thing about hokuten this isnt really an LS thing. asmodan told me at dynamis that she rarely if ever equips LS (probably if its convenient) so shes not really a true representative of hokuten. if you do want her to quit though, Mogi, "why is she afk" will suffice

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by berticus
    "why is she afk"
    edit: why the hell is she afk

  11. #11

    These were NA's that stole it? I don't really know Heartily or Soi, but my condolences to Worldx.

  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by joft
    Their LS put hundreds of man hours into camping pop items during times with 10 other JP LSes competing for the NMs, killing the gods, killing kirin, and because someone who probably hadn't slept in 3 days made a mistake... they deserve it?
    First off, if you haven't slept in 3 days, why are you be rushing to sell something? I hate to say it but I still stand by the fact that the AH system was corrected to prevent mistakes. Undoubtly their LS spent tens of hours (hundreds is rather exaggerated don't you think?) and I totally sympathize with them for their loss, but an error is an error. However, let me throw something out to you. Let's turn the table around a bit. Let's say for example purposes that you're trying to sell an item for 100,000 and someone buys it for 1,000,000. An extra zero and 900,000 in profit for you. Would YOU return the excess and how much of it?

    Or if you happened upon someone who posted their item in their bazaar for less, would you not buy it and instead /tell them of their error? Reality check please.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    By the way, I don't think this situation should be tied up with game ethics. Stealing unclaimed mobs, MPKing, Casting Dia and CFH 3 times (LoL!) has nothing to do with this. This discussion is about business and someone capitalizing on another person's mistakes. Exploit? Not really. You can not exploit something that has mulitple checks. This is about business and not hunt ethics. Financal investments dictate that in order to maximize profit, one must "buy low, sell high."

    Simply put, it is not about sidestepping a screwed economy, it is about surviving in a screwed up economy. The fact that this was not the first time it has happened with this person, obviously he is in the business of profitting off your mistakes. If you can buy something for less, why not buy it? If you can afford to buy things at full price and not even take the time to try and bid less, then more power to you. You are but a small minority of people with gil. Others will always try to bid less incase someone has undercut an item. So what if they started bidding at 10%?

    As for...
    But as long as people use this type of shit as an excuse to say it's "normal" and the majority does it, I thank you for contributing to the downfall of humanity.
    Lol humanity? Isn't that generalizing it a bit? You even said,
    is entirely relative to where you happened to be born and into what family.
    Speaking of downfall, I don't see anyone flaming the person who bought the Noble's Tunic. That person is just as guilty as Heartily for purchasing the item and further encouraging him to continue his endeavours. (e.g. purchasing items sold by gilsellers.)

  13. #13
    The God Damn Kuno
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    >By the way, I don't think this situation should be tied up with game ethics. Stealing unclaimed mobs, MPKing, Casting Dia and CFH 3 times (LoL!) has nothing to do with this.

    Whats the difference between this and doing EES/barrage etc at a 1% unclaimed Kirin for a nobles? You didn't work for the sky god pop items. You didnt fight any of the gods for the kirin pop items. And lastely you didn't take any part in the kirin fighting. Yet you get a free nobles either way.

  14. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kuno
    >By the way, I don't think this situation should be tied up with game ethics. Stealing unclaimed mobs, MPKing, Casting Dia and CFH 3 times (LoL!) has nothing to do with this.

    Whats the difference between this and doing EES/barrage etc at a 1% unclaimed Kirin for a nobles? You didn't work for the sky god pop items. You didnt fight any of the gods for the kirin pop items. And lastely you didn't take any part in the kirin fighting. Yet you get a free nobles either way.
    The difference is that this transaction takes place over the Auction House, not out in the dungeons where we hunt. I'd like to emphasize that this is about business, not hunt ethics. If you think this is wrong, then you must think that everyone under Rank10 with a little gil who purchases an Aketon and prances around with it is wrong too. Obviously they did not work for Rank 10 nor did they work for the conquest points for it.

  15. #15

    What you said is true, but tables turned, what if it happened to you? Wouldn't you want YOUR money, YOUR time back? I sure as hell would, and I would return the item if I ever stumbled across an item like that - why? Because sometimes, just SOMETIMES your reputation is a little more important then gil.

    Bahamut is a server mainly based around reputation, if you don't have a good rep, then don't bother playing - this act has severly damaged heartily's reputation and now I would be careful of this person. By no means do you have to return the full amount of money, you could keep a sum of it and give back the item, or you could give back the item and make a person eternally greatful...

    Mistakes do happen, shit will hit the fan, but are you going to be such an asshole, such a lowlife that you'd want to void someone's enjoyment and time because of your greed and selfishness, everyone deserves a chance, everyone deserves some reasoning~ going around doing shit like this is showing what kind of person you are in real life, the type of person who gets kicks from other people's misfortune and mistakes, they are leechers, the lowest kind of man.

  16. #16
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    Your sense of "business ethics" leads me to believe you're either a corporate lobbyist or going to school to become one

    And by the way, if someone overbid on one of my items I most definitely would return the gil. It's never happened to me that way, but one time I swear to god my cat jumped on my keyboard and made me hit the left arrow too many times and the enter key, and I bid all of my gil on an item worth about 20k. A few minutes later the guy who I bought it from logged on, he was Japanese, I sent him a tell, and he very honorably allowed me to return the item for the gil.

    But I guess that's just too much to expect of everyone, right? After all, Heartily has to SURVIVE in this TERRIBLE ECONOMY. And we all know in order to survive you just have to have a Noble's tunic And what better way to get in than ripping someone off instead of, say, attending your LS'es Kirin hunts? I'm not sure if you're aware of the LS Heartily is in, but Hokuten kills Kirin weekly. It's not like he wouldn't have had a chance at a Noble's any other way...

  17. #17

    Makes me think he wants to be a Lawyer >.>

  18. #18
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    (That's what corporate lobbyists are)

  19. #19

    (Got'cha >.>)

  20. #20

    damn

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