Dalmatica

[Caitsith]

Who do you think benefits more from the Dalmatica, a RDM or a WHM? It is a question currently asked in our linkshell. Please give your input

[Litoriceboi]

SMN. But if it had to be one of those two, then RDM. WHM has Nobles Tunic

[Imperatrix]

/nod litochan

[joft]

dalmatica should go to brd before it goes to whm or blm... in fact it should go to a level 50 rdm or smn before it goes to whm or blm, unless they're planning on leveling up rdm or smn or something.

anyway between smn and rdm it kind of depends on the situation & the person. for example, in BG I'm always the rdm who subs summoner for aerial armor in the tank party if the situation calls for it. so refreshing all 5-6 people in the tank party and 100mp for aerial armor every minute blows my mp away pretty quickly, so refresh armor is important. in other situations I may be subbing like whm or something and not do much other than refresh a few people and remove status effects whenever they happen so it's not that important. basically it makes it so either job can stop using a vermillion cloak and be able to wear head gear again, so it comes down to whose head gear is more beneficial.

rdm: af1 hat for fast cast, but you can switch into it when doing your refresh cycle and then switch back to verm, no big deal.

smn: austere hat, but you can switch into it for BP (not to mention switch into austere robe which gives avatar perpetuation cost-1 which is the same as verm) so that's no big deal.

basically either way it doesn't make all that much of a difference.

[layoneil]

SMN > RDM > BRD > BLM > WHM imo

[geno]

Edit: wow i typed a lot. sry. italics is general points if you arent reading it all anyways.


SMN > RDMorBRD > BLM > WHM
imo, which is pretty similar to your view of it.


SMN, being all encompassingly, a job entirely concerned with a steady flow of MP, seems to benefit the most, especially concerning races where MP is a larger problem then with Taru. It replaces a vermillion, by having much better stats in and of itself, but also allowing the use of a headpiece. They could then get another +50mp/+-50HP (Zenith or Opo crown or whatever else) or -Blood pact recast time with Austere, or even better AF2 horn. Pretty cut and clear. The only thing that one may substitute in, would be AF2 body, which is very dependent on weather paterns in the game.
A SMN will use a Dalmatica, if they have one, most likely at all times except resting.

BRD, being a job with no MP, yet being used as a mage anyways, will also benefit from +MP gear, and will benefit even more from refresh gear. In HNM situations, bards usually sub either WHM or SMN. In the case of SMN sub, the Dalmatica will be incredibly useful, especially since they cannot wear Austere gear anyways. The only other option for MP refresh is also Vermillion. When you take a look at Bard headgear, you also have a lot of choices. They can wear, and often do, Errant/Mahatma Hat (mainly for the -5/6 emnity), or Opo Crown (for mp/hp/chr), Zenith (same), or AF2 hat (emnity-3 AND chr5 AND singing skill [probably best headgear]). There are a lot of choices, and most of them do effect the job in a very positive way, so being able to clear up that slot, while maintaining MP refresh, can be vital. Resist rates on things on the ground are rarely even effected by anything over +50 CHR so errant/osode isnt such a big deal on them. Anything in sky will resist chr+130 or more, and seems almost a random success rate. So losing your other slot will not be as important.
A BRD will use Dalmatica, whenever resist rates are unchangable (often), or even inbetween casts of Elegy/Threnody/(Requiem also I guess), and will switch to errant while resting also.

RDM is a very versatile job, in that they can and will have different fortes depending on the roles they play in their LS. All endgame LSs will have multiple RDMs, which usually concentrate on different things. One may go all out enfeebling, merits / equipment / etc. Another may concentrate on solo, for the ability to hold or solo/duo things to help LS (often with nin sj). Another may be more concerned with MP, and will concentrate on SJs such as SMN. Most RDMs in my LS fall into category 1 or 2. Joft falls into 3 by the looks of it. In the case of an MP RDM, with a Dalmatica, their job becomes much easier. MP refresh is, again, a very important thing when you are doing blood pacts every minute that cost 100MP. Their alternative, like the others, is vermillion/royal cloak. Their headgear options are very good though. The AF1 hat is defenitely good, and being able to wear it and a Dalmatica is great. But where your headgear really shines lies in AF2 hat. The refresh from the hat will stack with Dalmatica's refresh. It also has the enfeebling+, which any RDM will appreciate. A RDM with AF2 hat + Dalmatica, will have similar enfeebling skill to that of one with AF1 hat + AF1 body, but will have a 2MP/tick gain on that. Since both items are difficult to obtain, most RDMs have the second combo, yet are still able to perform their job as an enfeebler effectively. So one with the first combo will too. So in the end, it is also based on how you plan to play the job. RDMs will enfeeble a lot more frequently then BRDs will, so They wont have as much time to switch back and forth with macros. So its not quite as often used by a hardcore-enfeebling-whoreish-RDM, but could still be used.
A RDM, depending on play style, will use Dalmatica, when not enfeebling on things challenging enough to need AF1 bodys enfeeb skill+, or while enfeebling on things not that difficult. They may also use in conjunction with SMN SJ even more often, and will also switch to errant while resting.

Actual response to question:
BLM will use, if there is no need to do a ton of extra DMG (Weskit), and are not having problems with resists (Probably Errant), and if they dont have AF2 Body, and if they think it looks cooler then AF2 Body/Other gear.
WHM will use, ... well shouldn't really use. The cost of cursed Dalmatica is nearing price of Nobles Tunic on Shiva as it is, only 2-3 Mil apart as it is, not to mention nobles is far far easier to obtain. Nobles is, by far, better. It could be argued that a 75Galka whm would need it, but it still might not be as important. AF2 Body could also replace dalm.

So, I think BLM > WHM if its down to that.

This is all my opinion of coarse. I think a lot about it unfortunatlely, and being a BRD (and soon, a SMN), who wants one, I can gaurentee you I am biased. I could probably BS an arguement on how its better for me then a SMN, but im not going to, because its not. Maybe if our LS actually had some, it wouldn't even end up an issue

[Avvesione]

Personally, I'd rather see it going to RDM then BRD. I play BRD and I use a lotta MP but I don't feel it's as vital to RDM.

Going back to the original question, I would say RDM over a WHM, but in listing order, I would 100% agree with this:

SMN > RDM > BRD > BLM > WHM imo

[geno]

Personally, I'd rather see it going to RDM then BRD. I play BRD and I use a lotta MP but I don't feel it's as vital to RDM.

Going back to the original question, I would say RDM over a WHM, but in listing order, I would 100% agree with this:

SMN > RDM > BRD > BLM > WHM imo

If my LS had a RDM that played that way i would probably be inclined to agree. As it is, most RDMs in my LS wouldn't even care for a Dalmatica until everyone who really wants one gets one. In fact, 2 of them already leveled Ninja to 75 because of their interest in that lol.

Also misread question. Saw BLM instead of RDM for some reason... order still applies, if not more that way though. Here is modified version if it:
SMN > RDMorBRD(both depending on play style) > BLM > WHM

[joft]

um, leveling my summoner now, and having put a bit of thought into the gear I'm going to be using, I can tell you I won't be equipping dalmatica all the time. whenever I have an avatar out I'm switching to austere's robe. it's basically when you're not resting and don't have an avatar out.

I'm not going to bother talking about SMN in xp parties because I assume anyone who has a dalmatica will be more concerned with HNMs at the point they can equip it than they're concerned with XP, so:

max MP gear, like zenith crown, isn't important... austere hat letting you BP 2 seconds earlier is honestly better than that. and the only time that head gear comes into use is when you're actually doing a BP, for which you should probably be equipping austere body for anyway (another -3 seconds?). the only other hat that would make a difference for something other than doing BP would be errant hat or mahatma hat for less enmity while curing.

for rdm you can equip af1 hat for refreshes and other buffs, elite beret/wise cap/crimson mask for enfeebling, and af2 hat for enfeebling and for another refresh. all of that stuff is happening a LOT more than once per minute (or 50sec).

either way it doesn't make much of a difference if you just switch your equip a lot. it depends on the situation also as i said. RDMs usually don't get much chance to rest, and they're more likely to be changing equipment a lot more often and going without vermillion refresh or austere body -perpetuation cost. even still the difference is only like ~10mp a minute difference while switching gear so 100mp per convert cycle.

there are VERY few items in this game that make a big difference when it comes to the endgame. defending ring, there you go. errant cape? not really, you still need about another -30 enmity from other equips. dalmatica is nice, sure, I don't know if I'll care about leveling my smn past 73 once i can equip my dalmatica but you realize it's not that big of a deal when you have one and you watch your mp meter tick ever so slowly upward exactly the same way it did when you had a verm.. lol

[geno]

Well of coarse its never going to be that big of a deal. Honestly, its not gonna make or break any fights your going to be in at all. All about making your job easier and pimping out your character, showing pride in LS accomplishments.

Anyone can buy Austere body. Very, very few people will even get the chance for a Dalmatica. That would be my main reason for wearing it, as its not going to make me an astoundingly better player. -3 seconds on BP is noticeable, but not any more neccesary then an extra 50mp. Rarely does it ever come down that close, without still be salvageable.