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  1. #1
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    Slam here. (Beliefs and Opinions Thread)

    Follow on from Pope thread as this isnt something that should be discussed there.

    Aid’s

    Don’t even bring aids into this thread since it was a scientist trying to help cure polio using untested chimpanzees that started this mess in the first place.

    If the pope is to blame then the whole human race is to blame also. Since it was human’s mistake in the first place.

    Gay situation

    You have to respect that the bible tells of Adam and Eve... it wasn’t Adam and John or Eve and Mandy. I personally don’t believe in religion or some of these stories told but it doesn’t change the fact males where born with certain organs and so where females.

    I also feel that there is a thin line between a close friendship and a sensual relationship.

    I love my best mate, I am not scared to hug him or even kiss him good bye, but I also know in my head/heart this would never go any further. I think a majority of so called "gay" people don’t understand these feelings and assume they are born with this so called "homosexual" gene. I personally know a lot of gay people and I have nothing against them but it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of them say "I just couldn’t connect with women" when they have only had 1-2 Relationships... I’ve had about 12 failed relationships.... 1 which I only connected with.... does that make me want to be gay? No.

    You will also find that a lot of homosexual people were pushed towards this bonding of the same sex, whether it was a friend who was gay or a family member. The reasons for this are unknown... maybe because the catalysts in there life just didn’t want to be alone in these un-chartered feelings. For the majority I can safely say the reasons said by many today are: - "It’s cool", "I "want" to be different" and "too many failed relationships".

    The Pope had to make a decision concerning the majority which coincides with his beliefs. As I said before I am not a religious person but I have to agree with the popes decision. For the one fact I stated before "males where born with certain organs and so where females." meaning nature made it this way intentionally. If you want to defy nature’s course then that’s a bridge evolution may cross eventually. But until then people will follow the current state of affairs in nature and try to keep a balance.

  2. #2

    Can we make a thread about the FedEx Pope?

  3. #3
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    Lol anyone ever actually pay attention in debate class....

    Religion
    Politics
    Sexual Orientation
    Abortion

    All big no-nos to debate.....

    Catholisism banns homosexuals originally to force memebers into servitude. Back in the ole days of yore... 95% of Nuns and priests were/are homosexual. You either breeed for the church or worked for them. Alot of religious leaders are bigots to one degree or another. I was sad to here the pope passed as much as alot of others. He is a religous icon of the catholic churchand by rights was posted to this position on merits and beliefs.

    Now reverse the situation... I am gay. Big deal. To pretend to know why people are gay or pass a judgement on them for whatever reason is wrong. To be Homosexual is not a sin. I persoanlly did not choose to be gay. I have had much experience in both sides but i like D$#%... well boobs to but only when i am drunk. Now i will not go into a morale debate or any other sort of one. However bringing up aids or homosexuality is annoying. 95% of religions hate other religions and say everyone who does not believe in the way they do is wrong. This can be said about politics and abortion and just about anything as well.

    The vatican blocks or destroys so much doctrines and such that no one will ever know everything that was said or decreed. Yet at same time they provide what they feel is appropriate. So many peopel follow the King James version of bible. Yet don't remember or fail to wish to that this bible was redesigned to allow divorce and many other things. Christianity was around for what 2000 years and many years, well say 1000 or so was passed by word of mouth. Now if anyone payed attention in school. Start on one side with a story... pass along all thru class til it gets to other side and see how much it changed.

    I am agnostic but i do not bash anyone for believing in a religion... well penticostals but please whats with the hair to god anyways.

    Most people are biggots to one degree or another. No one is perfect nor should they pretend to be. Religions are all the same... They started as on world religion then broke off into personal beliefs. All religions started as polythiesm then went to mono or stayed the same. Catholics are monothiests but yet lesser or greater angels replaced the minor gods of Greek/Roman beliefs. But enough of religion lesson...this isnt sunday school.

    Bringing up aids or any plague is nothing new. The black plague was blamed on Hookers and Thieves... much the same as aids was originally blamed on homosexuals. People look to find a scape goat and usually ends up being something they hate. My dad is gay and he works for an Aids Crisis Clinic and has 60 straight guys that come to him. We now know from history the spread of the BLack Plague was from rats travellingon ships... more so the fleas on the rats. Yet was found out at the time by burning the bodies and all the possesions it was stopped. As far as aids goes.. .the jury is still out. No one really knows how or when or where it started. First cases were reported in 80's but could have been the 60's for all we know.

    To use a hot topic to bash a religious icon is retarded and a low blow. Discussions or debate on Abortion, Religion, Politics, Sexual preferences and such are always heated and will be forever.

    Just for the record i am a Male homosexual Democratic Liberal that believes abortion is womens choice and that there is possibly a God of sorts out there. Anyways nuff said and have a wonderful day!

  4. #4
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    Nice! sig!!!, Anyway women can chose to become lesbeian very few choose to be gay, the thought of being with another man in a sexual sense actually sickens me i would kill the guy before he even got close to me, this being said, if i feal that way about a fucking a guy, and someone else feals the opposite and cant even have sex with women.
    It is not a choice, poeple are born with defects being gay is just one of the few, if your bi, thats just wrong cause you chose to be wrong when you could have been right.
    I personally have no problem with gay poeple, but theirs nobody i know that would be friends with a gay guy, so belive me nobody chooses that, it's a sad defect, but gay people make the best of it, which i think is the best they can do.
    Ohh and the killling thing, i would actually rather die than be fucked by a guy, so ya, you don't chose to be gay it's just how you are, and gay people are just making the best of it.

  5. #5
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    actually in the bible it says something like "man shouldnt go to bed with another man" or something along those lines... making it a sin. personally i dont have a problem with gay people, even tho i do think the whole born that way stuff is a load

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onizuka
    Nice! sig!!!, Anyway women can chose to become lesbeian very few choose to be gay, the thought of being with another man in a sexual sense actually sickens me i would kill the guy before he even got close to me, this being said, if i feal that way about a fucking a guy, and someone else feals the opposite and cant even have sex with women.
    It is not a choice, poeple are born with defects being gay is just one of the few, if your bi, thats just wrong cause you chose to be wrong when you could have been right.
    I personally have no problem with gay poeple, but theirs nobody i know that would be friends with a gay guy, so belive me nobody chooses that, it's a sad defect, but gay people make the best of it, which i think is the best they can do.
    Ohh and the killling thing, i would actually rather die than be fucked by a guy, so ya, you don't chose to be gay it's just how you are, and gay people are just making the best of it.
    Ok then!!! A Defect. A 4 inch penis is more of a defect that being gay. Color Blindnes sis a defect. A biker chic that 60 in a halter top is a defect. Being guy my friend is by no means a defect. Its a "Lifestyle". Til the advent of Christianity Homosexuality was no problem. 99.9% of ancient religions and societies had it. Some even had special designs for it.

    To say its a defect is by far more derogitory than calling someone a "fag" or a "queer". You see i believe when you are born you are coded or destined to do things from birth. I have been with males and females. I prefer to be with males because everything about it feels right. Much the same way thru your own info that your are str8 cause it feels right.

    I thank you for your "input" but please stop saying its a defect or i will have to start bringing up small d%^&s again!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze
    actually in the bible it says something like "man shouldnt go to bed with another man" or something along those lines... making it a sin. personally i dont have a problem with gay people, even tho i do think the whole born that way stuff is a load
    Lol... well if we did everything stated in the bible we would both be dead for blasphemy so to each thier own. The bible was a coleection of staries passed for generations by word of mounth and then later transcribed and then changed. If you have ever told a story or a joke that someone else told you i am pretty sure it was not verbatim.

    The bible says "Man shall not lie with Man" but yet at same time refers to not laying with a person you do not love and for whom you do not wish to procreate. Sex is for babies not pleasure. To spill your seed in any way besides procreation was and is considered a sin.

    99% of people that i hear deabte homosexuality are like... i am fien with it as long as they dont try anything on me. So let me guess you have never hit on a women that turned you down or told to off. for the most part dont worry your pretty little heads about being hit on. Do however think about the number of freinds family members and co-workers who are gay and in the closet that you may know. For the longest time I would always hear about some gay guy being killed by his best freind or such nonsense. Yet when was the last time you saw a girl kill a guy for being hit on. I am sure if this happened more it would be a whole other story tho causae its not dealing with "defective people" or "sinners" but normal per bible people.

  8. #8

    Mak, do remember that the bible is a collection of stories and letters, history is written by the winners, and stories were kept out of the bible, for what many believe (just read Divinci Code) is the sacred Feminine that the church tried to keep out, I think it was that one guy from Constanpanople or whatever.

    I for one believe that humans are just animals. A really good book about the subject is one by Jared Diamond. When people say "Oh its not natural" or that its because they just can't get with a person of the opposite sex, they're completly wrong.

    If god created all the animals and then humans, why is there homosexuality in Chimpanzees, penguins, and dogs? It seems perfectly normal that humans would be homosexual if other animals are too. Someone also metioned ancient societies. My ancient relatives in Greece had sex with young boys. Not only is that homosexual, its pedophilia, but it was COMMON practice then and encouraged.

    I don't understand your aids reference, I was pretty sure aids was introduced to humans by infected monkeys. All the snow monkeys at our zoo have aids and they're waiting for them to die before they bring more. If you don't know that the monkey's have aids they look cute and cudly, but if you do know you can see the tumors that are killing them. Aids is from way before people messed around with polio, feniles have a version of aids that's been in them forever, and even a few anthropolists believe that the ancient egyptians left egypt from a plague of aids.

    Anyways, i believe tolerance should the moral of the story. The company I work for, you could not show up for a week and hardly a question would be asked. The moment you say anything bad about another race/sex/religion you're up in human resources getting reprimanded. More people need to start agreeing to disagree, respect others opinions as their opinions whether you agree with them or not.

    Edited for grammar.

  9. #9
    Saint Daahan Von Quitter the 1st
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    So in my CMUN101 class we were giving persuasive and controversial speeches (two separate assignments).

    The thing that disappointed me that in every single one of these topics, there would be a situation where the government got involved with some legislation or bureaucracies.

    This is a hot topic so I don't really wanna argue with anybody who feels different, don't get angry because I won't.

    Yesterday, there was a Congressman who wanted to pass a law that went something like this. If any words of profanity are heard on a radio talk show, whether it is the host or a listener calling in, the host should be put in jail." These were not the exact words of the Congressman but it is the jist of it and this is a real proposal.

    I remember that during Middle School and the beginning of my High School years, whenever I heard the word Government, an idea of respectful authority and Democracy came into mind. Nowadays when I hear Government, I think of endless bureaucracies, constant legislation on almost every single controversial matter, and an Oligarchy.

    I love living in America, and I'm originally from the Middle East. People tell me I should be greatful because over here we don't have to deal with the crap that people put up with over there (this is true). However, if you think about it, our government is sometimes going against what America stands for.

    As of now, the benefits that we have overwhelmingly outweigh all these falacies I just mentioned, however I fear as the years go on this might change.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daahan
    So in my CMUN101 class we were giving persuasive and controversial speeches (two separate assignments).

    The thing that disappointed me that in every single one of these topics, there would be a situation where the government got involved with some legislation or bureaucracies.

    This is a hot topic so I don't really wanna argue with anybody who feels different, don't get angry because I won't.

    Yesterday, there was a Congressman who wanted to pass a law that went something like this. If any words of profanity are heard on a radio talk show, whether it is the host or a listener calling in, the host should be put in jail." These were not the exact words of the Congressman but it is the jist of it and this is a real proposal.

    I remember that during Middle School and the beginning of my High School years, whenever I heard the word Government, an idea of respectful authority and Democracy came into mind. Nowadays when I hear Government, I think of endless bureaucracies, constant legislation on almost every single controversial matter, and an Oligarchy.

    I love living in America, and I'm originally from the Middle East. People tell me I should be greatful because over here we don't have to deal with the crap that people put up with over there (this is true). However, if you think about it, our government is sometimes going against what America stands for.

    As of now, the benefits that we have overwhelmingly outweigh all these falacies I just mentioned, however I fear as the years go on this might change.
    A lot of mistakes are made in the name of "social equality" and other flawed concepts. Government continually expanding its reach into the personal lives of people is not a new trend; it's been the norm rather than the exception since the start of the 20th century, and there's no reason to think that it's going to change anytime soon.

  11. #11
    Ridill
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    Lujan,

    I will start off by saying that out of anyone I play this game with, I know that you have absolutely nothing against gay people. (Considering the silliness that we get up to sometimes.) What I think you are missing about the relationship thing is that there is a difference between knowing that a relationship was doomed because you were wrong for the other person and that all relationships are doomed because there is just something wrong with people of the opposite sex. I never had to date women to know that I am gay; it is something that I unconsciously knew since I was in Kindergarten when I realized that (in my 5-year-old words) "I like looking at guys more than I like looking at gals".

    I like to use the cardboard box analogy. When I look at women, I do not think that they are repulsive or even unattractive- it is like looking at a plain, brown cardboard box. No print, no pictures, just a regular sized box. Now there is nothing wrong with cardboard boxes, you can do all sorts of things with them, like shop, but I hold no desire for them either. Men, on the other hand, are not cardboard boxes. If I asked you to come up with a list of things that you like about women, I am sure that I could have a comparable list about men. They would be similar, yet different- but it does not make it wrong.

    I have no openly gay family members. There were no openly gay people around where I grew up. I am from a very isolated, backwards small town. People are very prejudiced there, and when I was growing up that hurt me a lot. I was not able to rectify my own attraction to men with the homophobia that I was raised around until I was almost 21. This was not something that I saw other people doing and thought that it would be a kicky good time; this was something that it took me years to understand and accept. When people throw around words like "choice" and "preference", I get very angry because that is born out of ignorance. Why would you want to choose to be discriminated against? Why would you choose to be ridiculed and scored? Why would you choose to be everyone's favorite scapegoat? This world can be very short on compassion and tolerance; there is no reason to try to make yourself a target for even more injustice.

    As for it not being natural, if that were the case why would animals display homosexual behavior? (Like Demetrick brought up.) A German Zoo was in the news not to long ago because they had 3 sets of gay penguins, when females were introduced they were ostracized. (I bet the male penguins said that the females had bad hair and could not dress themselves.)

    P.S. I bet we have completly different definitions of "male bonding". Yours with beer and sports, mine involves handcuffs. But perhaps I have said too much...

  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicklet
    A lot of mistakes are made in the name of "social equality" and other flawed concepts. Government continually expanding its reach into the personal lives of people is not a new trend; it's been the norm rather than the exception since the start of the 20th century, and there's no reason to think that it's going to change anytime soon.
    I don't mind the government getting more into my personal life, hell they can come to the point of anal-probing, then I'll draw a line. And they can continue to keep doing this as long as they keep the roads paved and the FUCKING terrorists out of the country.

  13. #13
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    Daahan where do you live? I'm doing the exact same thing in my communications 101 class right now... I'm sure it's just a coincidence though

    I see this issue from a purely scientific standpoint. "Love," "affection," "lust," and similar human emotions are nothing more than biochemical reactions in our bodies that have proven (along with the actual pleasure involved in the act of sex), in the process of natural selection, to be successful means of causing members of our species to reproduce.

    There are many theories as to why sexual reproduction is beneficial for the species (and therefore selected by the process of natural selection). See any of these links:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ution.html
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/sex/advantage/
    http://www.panspermia.org/sexual.htm

    Now, homosexuality seems to be an exception to this. People who are homosexual experience love and lust and so on for members of the same sex, who they are unable to reproduce with. Humans also have non-sexual affection for members of both sexes. We also have developed specific means of preventing impregnation during sexual intercourse. Then there's also masturbation, oral sex, and so on; this all seems to suggest that sexual pleasure and human emotions are not after all "nature's way" of getting us to reproduce.

    I haven't actually bothered researching whether anyone else has already developed a theory about it and whether or not I agree with them. But my theory on this is that the "emotions" (biochemical reactions) of love and affection, and the pleasure of sexual acts were mutations in the genome (the basic premise of evolution) that proved to be successful in their original purpose; to cause reproduction and the perpetuation of the species. "Natural selection" is really just a fancy way of describing how the mutations that are beneficial become the norm for the species and not just mutations (exceptions to the norm). It's really simple, basically, the members of the species with the mutation reproduce more successfully and have greater survival rates, and the members of the species without the mutation eventually die off or (in the case of sexual reproduction) have offspring with members who have the mutation so that the next generation has the mutation in their genes anyway.

    So, these "emotions," having become part of the genome, eventually started serving other purposes also. My theory in a nutshell is that non-sexual "love" (or non-reproductive sexual "lust") is basically a side effect of the original evolutionary purpose of those human emotions. A few million years of natural selection later, members of the species who have non-sexual affection have higher survival rates because their affection causes them to stay together, protect each other, etc etc.

    Then, after our species began relying more on culture (or "nurture") and less on instincts (or "nature") for survival, emotions such as "love" became less of a means to an end and more of an end unto itself. Again, this is in order to ensure its perpetuation in the species now that it would be transmitted more culturally and less instinctually. That is my theory attempting to reconcile what I think is an obvious scientific truth; that affection is an evolutionary means of ensuring survival and reproduction, with the notions of non-reproductive sex and non-sexual love.

    As for whether or not homosexuality is "right" or "wrong" or a "defect," I have no position. We are all defective to some extent. None of us are exactly the same. Whose idea was it to use the word defective instead of... different? I am 1 in about 250,000 people that is born with a veinous malformation. I am defective. Does that make me evil? Am I more evil than the 6% or so of the population that is homosexual? People with my defect are only about .0004% of the population. But then, like I said, none of us are exactly the same anyway.

    (Edit: You are only 1/6,428,000,000th of the population of humans on this planet. Yet, no other human has had the same experiences or lived the same life as you. Nobody has the same perspective on everything that you have.)

    From my logical, scientific standpoint, I think the ideas of right, wrong, good, and evil have outdated their usefulness and are slowly becoming replaced with "relativism." It is not surprising to me, as it was already a century ago that our human intuition's sense of the world and universe around us was completely shattered by Albert Einstein. From a religious standpoint I guess you could say... maybe it isn't up to us to decide, or even be able to figure out everything about what is good and what is evil... Our perspectives are, after all, extremely limited.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrick
    I don't mind the government getting more into my personal life, hell they can come to the point of anal-probing, then I'll draw a line. And they can continue to keep doing this as long as they keep the roads paved and the FUCKING terrorists out of the country.
    You do realize it seems as though you're saying the government can continue to keep on anally probing you, right?

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    Deme likes getting anally probed

    But it was said in an earlier post that it wasnt a sin or whatnot, and taking sin in the Christian point of view, as the the bible is the highest truth, even though it was written by man, homosexuality would be a sin.

    And yea, God would've stricken me down by now if everything was true i guess

  16. #16

    Even if people do use the argument the bible argument that being homosexual is forbidden in the bible, there are thousands of sins that hold the same weight that we commit everyday. Even if you think being homosexual is a sin, it's gotten way too much publicity today, especially when there are much worse things going on right now..

  17. #17

    I can sum up half of evolution a little more in lyman's terms.
    Notice the peacock's tail and all those crazy feathers? It's an instilled drive within us that tells us what we are attracted to. Those feathers don't help it fly any, but they sure look hawt!

    Same reason why I'm attracted to girls with big breasts. One, they have vagina's and two, they have big breasts. This is what I am attracted to, same goes for gays, they're attracted to men/women for whatever makes them attractive.

    Remember that scientist from jurassic park? that guy that starred in the Fly and Independence day. He said that them making all the dinosaurs female was a bad idea, nature will find a way. That isn't Sci-fi, nature has already found a way. Some species of North American whiptails and European lacertid lizards have only female individuals; adult females lay unfertilized eggs that hatch only into females.

    Do to the lack of being able to isolate a large human population this idea is imposible for us, but if you were able to gather a few hundred billion lesbians, rocket them to mars, and let them live there. And as the sun screws up their DNA and let nature takes its' course, EVENTUALLY they'll be able to bread. and eventually those offspring will be able to reproduce offspring.

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    see, we men are the inferior ones though. we would never be able to reproduce on our own

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrick
    Do to the lack of being able to isolate a large human population this idea is imposible for us, but if you were able to gather a few hundred billion lesbians, rocket them to mars, and let them live there. And as the sun screws up their DNA and let nature takes its' course, EVENTUALLY they'll be able to bread. and eventually those offspring will be able to reproduce offspring.
    Send a few gay men to try to remove the mullet from the lesbian genome while we're at it.

    The horror. A plannet full of flannel, indy folk rock, and unshaved arm-pits. Ewww...

  20. #20

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Send a few gay men to try to remove the mullet from the lesbian genome while we're at it.

    The horror. A plannet full of flannel, indy folk rock, and unshaved arm-pits. Ewww...
    ROFL ya, too bad it can't be the hawt pr0n lesbians.

    BUT JOFT fear not, we're already trying to accomplish this

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