So, I put a Carrie on Vrtra

[Moggy]

ziggy getting hyped after tiamat i think lol
but tiamat AoE effect = disease?
vrtra = sleep
jourgy = para

i think tiamat is kinda simple since his AoE is useless to pets, his magic is firaga III which a crab with shell up should reduce decent dmg, his 2 hour is mighty strike

vrtra, 2 hour useless to pets (charm), but AoE is sleep effect, casts sleepga II that mind u, is a wider than a blm sleepga II, unless u have a way to wake pets up (drg spirit link wakes up wyvern and cures any effect on him) dunno about bst, maybe reward wakes them up? i think the harder part is he summons every 1-2 minuets and those summons loves -ga III

jourgy i feel its silly to even try a bst/smn alliance on him, his 2 hour is blood weapon, and incase some hasn't faught him, its not really 2 hour, its more like 2-5 minutes, then his AoE is paralyze.........he casts paralyzga

[Nagamaki]

Jorm was the 1st wyrm killed by a BST alliance as far as I know, CC factory in ther back, send them at him until he dies, that's it.

As for melees on wyrms, SAM, WAR, DRK and MNK can all do 1000+ very easily. Even without SATA I did a 900 Dragon Kick once (SATA wore as I went) and with, 1400 isn't too hard to hit.

*edit in case ppl don't know DK is Dragon Kick

[NynJa]

Why does it upset you so much that DRK and SAM can do good damage to Tiamat?

Of course theres always a problem of that melee building too much hate and causing a flail.

Only if your tanks really suck and if you can't think of a very obvious way to lose the hate they've built up.

Roar does manipulate hate on whoever it roared...and I know about logging out to reset hate.


Who said it bothers me ?? How often do drk's or sam's get to do that damage compared to blm or smn ??

[Orfeo]

I'm upset because my job is not as efficient of a damage dealer as others.

[Zigma]

ziggy getting hyped after tiamat i think lol
but tiamat AoE effect = disease?
vrtra = sleep
jourgy = para

i think tiamat is kinda simple since his AoE is useless to pets, his magic is firaga III which a crab with shell up should reduce decent dmg, his 2 hour is mighty strike

vrtra, 2 hour useless to pets (charm), but AoE is sleep effect, casts sleepga II that mind u, is a wider than a blm sleepga II, unless u have a way to wake pets up (drg spirit link wakes up wyvern and cures any effect on him) dunno about bst, maybe reward wakes them up? i think the harder part is he summons every 1-2 minuets and those summons loves -ga III

jourgy i feel its silly to even try a bst/smn alliance on him, his 2 hour is blood weapon, and incase some hasn't faught him, its not really 2 hour, its more like 2-5 minutes, then his AoE is paralyze.........he casts paralyzga

I'm not getting hyped up after tiamat.

I'm just posting my findings and showing it to be a bit funny.

[Carbon]

That's just f'ing ridiculous. That's like XPing with a Lv60 DRK that uses full AF equip and DEX rings, but magically does a 1000dmg WS.

lol.... that's a great analogy!

[NynJa]

I'm so witty I make false quotes up to make someone look like an ass.

So once again, how often do you get to do those 9834792384 SA Steel Cyclones ??

[Lordwafik]

Ok, so you want to remove the beastmaster's ability to call something that can take more than 1 hit without hitting them in the wallet just because it's a lvl23 thing?

Ok, in that sense you should nerf utsesimi aswell. The higher lvl you get the less shadows it absorbs. Heck it's a lvl12/37 spell, why are you relying on it? Shouldnt you be relying on things more your lvl?

[Marcatil]

I'm so witty I make false quotes up to make someone look like an ass.

So once again, how often do you get to do those 9834792384 SA Steel Cyclones ??

/karla'D (inside joke on Fairy), except this is Steel Cyclone and not Slice >.>

[Lordwafik]

That's just f'ing ridiculous. That's like XPing with a Lv60 DRK that uses full AF equip and DEX rings, but magically does a 1000dmg WS.

lol.... that's a great analogy!

Except for the fact that the "drk"
1) Cant choose his WS
2) Has a magic selection of Bubble Shower (AOE STR down + little dmg), Bubble Curtain (self shell, omg!11!!11) or the claw move which name escapes me at the moment, which does usually 100-400 dmg.


Yes, Great analogy.

[benny]

2) Has a magic selection of Bubble Shower (AOE STR down + little dmg), Bubble Curtain (self shell, omg!11!!11) or the claw move which name escapes me at the moment, which does usually 100-400 dmg.

You forgot the mini-Stoneskin move :-E Crab WS suck^^;; but the overall balance of attack, defense, and HP is pretty appealing, even so.

Totally off topic, but if you want to see something funny, kill an HP stone near Carrie in Dynamis^^

-benny, Valefor

[Onizuka]

This topic made me lol,

1: Cause you guys sound like SE, any situation comes up.. huh? NERF IT!
2. Meele have it hard already and some dummy tried to put them down for the good things they can do
3: Every other topic now and then with some kind of a fight ends up some kind of nerf fight....smn is soo next XD

[layoneil]

So once again, how often do you get to do those 9834792384 SA Steel Cyclones ??

you know how many Blood Pacts a SMN can get off before they fly?

[layoneil]

Ok, so you want to remove the beastmaster's ability to call something that can take more than 1 hit without hitting them in the wallet just because it's a lvl23 thing?

change =/= remove. i would like to see a balance between craft level, equip level and level cap. if all of those things were aligned the price should fall into a proper place.

Ok, in that sense you should nerf utsesimi aswell. The higher lvl you get the less shadows it absorbs. Heck it's a lvl12/37 spell, why are you relying on it? Shouldnt you be relying on things more your lvl?

your analogy is wrong because there isn't an Utsusemi higher than 37, while there are jugs higher than 23. also you don't get more shadows at Lv 75 than you do at Lv 37. i'm thinking under the same terms.

i don't use Minuet II if i can use IV and III. mages don't use Dia when they can use Dia II. WHMs don't Raise when there's Raise III. RNGs don't use Beetle Arrows when they can use Scorpion Arrows. melees don't do Detonation SC when they can do Light SC. BSTs still use Carrie when higher level jugs are available.

Utsusemi: Ni is the highest level NIN blink spell, if there was a higher one and people still was using Ni instead than i would make the same case that the series of spells are broken.

i have in other threads made the case that Detonator and/or Slugshot is broken because the quested WS is less preferable than the Lv 55 WS.

the higher level stuff should always be preferable to the lower level stuff, the lower level stuff should only be used when the higher level stuff for whatever reason can't be, level capped area, recast time, need to conserve MP, need to conserve gil (hence why RNGs not XPing with Cannonshells, Demon Arrows, Darksteel Bolts is accepted, why NINs not XPing with high level shruikens is accepted).

there should be some kind of sacrifice when you choose to use a lower level skill/item/spell etc. the rule doesn't always exist for jugs, a Lv 23 jug is stronger than a Lv 51 jug simply because the user is Lv 70. that's broken.

this is the best analogy i can give: Minuet Attack boost is based on your Singing + Instrument Skill. Minuet II starts at +20 and is at +75 when backed up by Lv 75 BRD skill. Minuet III starts at +30 but caps at +60 regardless of skill. how does that make sense?

[Hirronimus]

I can agree with just about everything you've said Sendoh, except the fact that Carrie is by far stronger than some of the higher level jugs available. If they need to adjust it (Carrie), proper adjustments to higher level jugs must be made to compensate for lack of "streangth" in them atm.

[layoneil]

If they need to adjust it (Carrie), proper adjustments to higher level jugs must be made to compensate for lack of "streangth" in them atm.

not once did i suggest they don't do that. it's only the idiots who read any kind of change as NERF that can't comprehend it.

though they don't really need to adjust the old ones if they add a whole slew of new ones.

[Hirronimus]

New jugs would definatly be fun to see.

Off topic a bit, but here's a question. Marbols are a family unto themselves or are they considered Amorphs?

[NynJa]

So once again, how often do you get to do those 9834792384 SA Steel Cyclones ??

you know how many Blood Pacts a SMN can get off before they fly?

2-3 ?? I think, I've never really timed them, I'm not a SMN.


However it didn't answer my question of how often drk's or war's get to SA WS.

[Mifaco]

New jugs would definatly be fun to see.

Off topic a bit, but here's a question. Marbols are a family unto themselves or are they considered Amorphs?

morbols are plantoids.

[Orfeo]

If they need to adjust it (Carrie), proper adjustments to higher level jugs must be made to compensate for lack of "streangth" in them atm.

not once did i suggest they don't do that. it's only the idiots who read any kind of change as NERF that can't comprehend it.

though they don't really need to adjust the old ones if they add a whole slew of new ones.

As cool as it would be, I'm happy with "ole faithful". He's just so damn cute...