Let the Truth be Told

[Tonyanjaii]

Didn't you also get a bunch of items from S|B and then leave to make your LS HNM?

Yeah i got a hectacomb abjurations glove and feet, seriyu kote and byakko haidate which all are Rare / Ex (cannot be sold or traded). Also I paid in full amount for the cursed items. I never asked S|B to pay for any of it even tho I was entitled to half of its cost.

I didn't leave S|B to make my own HNM LS, Kazoku had already existed, as explained to MWM of my reasons, which I will explain again here simply that I was going to lose my own members because they were getting at higher lvl and expressed an interest in the HNM community. At this point I had to make a decision as to the "ONLY 1 HNM LS" rule I chose my own LS.

Btw your boy Kasber took off with our nobles and joined your LS S|B. I asked for it back, you guys said to return the items given to me back to you guys (rare/ex) and we left it at that I guess my rare/ex items for that 1 nobles, good trade.

[Elcura]

Wait, LS's have prenuptial agreements now? Actually that might not be a bad idea... But not everyone can afford to pay back a LS what they took in rare/ex shit.

[Buruberi]

I am close friends with all the people in question. In the defense of these three individuals, the reason they kept the items was because of Tony's LS policy at the time (the individuals told me this):

The item is not property of the Kazoku linkshell. When the item is bestowed on you, it is for good. Unlike other linkshells, the item was supposed to belong to the individual and not the linkshell.

Thus, these individuals feel it is their right to keep the items they were given as members of Kazoku. A simple search during their Kazoku residency would have easily shown they attended tons of Kazoku events and earned the items.

I also know one of these individuals was discontent with the level of end-game material Kazoku was involved in. This individual was dilligently seeking access to sea and wanted to be a part of sea end-game content; something Kazoku was not prepared to offer in the near future. It had nothing to do with "getting big ticket items and taking off." It had to do with seeking different end-game material and different linkshell policies.

I understand Tony's plea, and Tony, I feel bad for you. You are a nice guy. However, if you did in fact make this rule and these members recieved their items under it, then I think you should have to stick by that, and in the future select your rules more carefully.

[Heian]

MY LS's policy is no give backs. You get what you earn that simple. I get M hands and they buy me Cursed Hands. Thats it I earned it, no pay back what so ever. I think this is a hard topic to debate and both sides have valid points but again it up to the LS and the members need to be made aware of such things when joining.

[Tonyanjaii]

As i have always stated and said Items are given to members IN GOOD FAITH that they shall continue to be a part of the linkshell. If they leave then they are no longer in good faith of the Linkshell. These items should be returned if you are no longer in the Linkshell. They were not kicked, they were not pushed to leave, nobody harassed these individuals to make them leave.

2 of the 3 told me that they were taking a break, 1 just left without saying anything to me. I understand sometimes everyone needs to take a break at some point but it really draws the line when you say that you're taking a break and applying to another Linkshell, I really don't consider that as taking a break. And on top of that telling the Linkshell that you are applying to, the reason why they left was due to "favoritism" Tell me how am I being unfair and unjust?

[Akiro]

i heard you shafted your own member for Rivine site A01 cause you were on that mission and promised you would go back and do it for her, but as to what i heard you never showed up and the mission was postponed, nice way to treat a member over yourself

[asze]

Tony didn't you JUST clear Promy? How is he shafting anyone on a mission? Unless akiro is talking about someoene else?

[layoneil]

I have took these 3 individuals in, little that they came with

that's one of the most ridiculous things i've read in a long time. are you some kind of saint that takes in stray dogs? it's very degrading to refer to people that way.

and listing all the Ex stuff is a waste of time, every LS has lost people who've gotten valuable Ex items. if you want to feel better about what you've lost, you can tell yourself, "at least we didn't lose Black Belt, Shura Togi, Valor Surcoat, Ridill and Adaman Haubrek" cause BG's lost at least one of each of those.

The item is not property of the Kazoku linkshell. When the item is bestowed on you, it is for good. Unlike other linkshells, the item was supposed to belong to the individual and not the linkshell.

if this is true, this post is BS. there are some LS that would like people to return their items when they quit (BG is one of them) and there are other LS that pride themselves on rewarding their members and letting them earn items for keeps. if Kazoku was one of the latter, it's bogus to ask for items back.

Tony didn't you JUST clear Promy? How is he shafting anyone on a mission? Unless akiro is talking about someoene else?

BG members saw him in Monarch Linn earlier this week.

[asze]

tony you fag, you past me, ><' working too much these days

[Akiro]

ehl oh ehl

[kasber]

First off keep me the fuck outa it, there was no reason my name should have been brough up in this thread and fyi that aint my boy / friend / homie or w/e he could drop dead for all i care..

Second:

They were not kicked, they were not pushed to leave, nobody harassed these individuals to make them leave.

2 of the 3 told me that they were taking a break, 1 just left without saying anything to me. I understand sometimes everyone needs to take a break at some point but it really draws the line when you say that you're taking a break and applying to another Linkshell, I really don't consider that as taking a break.

The day i "left" FYI i took off pearl to help someone and was harassed..
I left it alone did nothing but went to go help another friend out and he gave me a SB pearl. For about 3hrs i was harassed by members of kazoku... I never asked to be in SB my GF wanted in that ls i was content with Kazoku with the exception of one member (tell me he was not pussing me to leave...)

[Jason]

tony you fag, you past me, ><' working too much these days

You shall be taken away for sense offense and scheduled for combustion.

[Nirokun!]

I have to agree with Kwijiboe, you dont just give people stuff, rare stuff, until they've earned it, or you consider it trash because everyone else has it.

And i have this beef with nobles tunic, ppl treat it different, like its on a string tied to someone's hand and they can just yank it back whenever they want. All the melees get their weapons/abjs/armorstuffs from the gods/kirin, and all whm gets is shitty zenith gear thats pretty worthless (yay max mp) and genbu's shield if we want to melee (and everyone else doesnt want us to)

In the course of getting things for melees, you come up with god seals that are used to pop kirin. And shining cloth drops off that (not too uncommon) but ppl treat nobles as something different, just because it can be sold.

Now tell me whms dont go to gods because there is nothing in it for them, and you can want to take back whatever you want. But if your whms come to the gods, and the LS makes up the seals for kirin, and kills it, and haves a nobles made, you cant just take it away. Your whms worked as hard for their tunic as your melees did for their gear, and most likely dont get praised for their -na's on byakko and seiryuu, and their speed and attentiveness on suzaku, and their mp conservation on kited genbu and kirin. But nice big damage on mobs is always praised, ppl who work to support everyone else (all support jobs, not just whm) dont get the praise they need. And so little does whm get that isnt purchased, the coup de grace is the nobles, its pretty rare/ex if you ask me.

i have to study now, bye~ :D

[Buruberi]

I don't recall the good faith policy taking action until after these members had received their items. Tony, as you, and many Kazoku members knew, I played a friend's account that was in Kazoku and I often saw LS chat, in addition to kindly being given a pearl on my character for friendly chatting during NA times when my Japanese LS was asleep. At one point I had a Kazoku ventrilo channel on my private ventrilo server at the request of my real life friend. I am not totally foreign to the actions of Kazoku.

I do recall many of your "old school" members talking about the "item belonging to the individual and not the LS" policy when your LS was in its beginnings. These same three individuals received their items early on, believing in this policy and supporting it themselves. From what I understand you let other ex-members server migrate with Kirin's Osodes, which basically means leaving your linkshell, and the entire server for that matter.

Do you only wish for your items back because these individuals have a chance of joining Bluegrtr, an LS you are in opposition with? Why then did you let some members walk with Osodes and others, you want their items back? Is this not showing favoritism?

Also, I am positive 2/3 of these individuals had conversations with Tony expressing their discontent and wishing for change. It is possible that these people feel so wronged by the responses that they did not even want to justify leaving? It could also be possible they chose not to say they were officially leaving to avoid flames, tells, and a general creation of drama, or even to avoid posts like this.

Tony, you have been nothing but patient and kind to many players and to your linkshell, and I hope that you remain doing so by allowing these people to keep the items they left with, as per your original terms they received them under.

[Shaodin]

nirokun stop being a bitchy whm.
fuckin whm's... i hate them.

[Warudo Ecksu]

nirokun stop being a bitchy whm.
fuckin whm's... i hate them.

Hey, shut up Nirokun is a nice little taru.

[Tonyanjaii]

Buruberi I appreciate that you are trying to help out your friends, but none the less you are not a member of my shell, reason why you were given a pearl was to chat because you were dating Jerseyprophet or something I don't know what the full story on that was.

That ventrillo you speak of was not Kazoku Ventrillo. You hosted with a few of my members, we as a Linkshell don't use that type of system. As I recall the individuals you mentioned were part of your ventillo.

I don't recall anyone leaving with an osode to another server? Not sure what you are talking about there. It appears your information you have are what has been told by your fellow friends.

If they want to leave and join another linkshell, fine, thats ok, but they don't need to lie about it. I wasn't just their leader, I was also their friends so please don't forget that.

Akiro I didnt shaft anyone. I'm very slow at CoP, majority of my members are all passed me. If anything that deals with CoP, I'm just a tag a long. Therefore I don't plan them when I do them. The other members do.

Nirokun, how does your Linkshell deal with items given to them that they did not pay for and leaves your LS?

[Darkvalentine]

nirokun stop being a bitchy whm.
fuckin whm's... i hate them.

Niro is cool ; ; he makes fun of ram with me ; ;

[Xavier]

how does your Linkshell deal with items given to them that they did not pay for and leaves your LS?

we rape the living fuck out of them

[berticus]

Nirokun, how does your Linkshell deal with items given to them that they did not pay for and leaves your LS?

ask for the ones we believe they didnt earn back, and if they dont return them just take it in stride.