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Thread: Why don't you...     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1

    Why don't you...

    ...sign up on alla and post stuff in this section?

    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=29

    I've been trolling the alla boards for ever (nubs make me warm and fuzzy <3), and just realized today that EVERY shitty change to the game was suggested on alla.

    Melees were gimped way back (well, multi-hit ws users atleast) because people were bitching about DRG being over powered.

    RNG was gimped because people were bitching about it being over powered.

    The worthless jeuno AH tax was sugested as a gil sink.

    The current shitty as fuck MPK fix was suggested in that thread by the SE dude.

    You get my point. Everything that has been done wrong with FFXI was suggested on alla.

    What I'm wondering is, why don't more people sign up and post in the feedback forum (which is supposedly monitored by SE)? To me atleast it's obvious that they do read the forums since many changes are taken straight from some drooling level 40 retards post.

    I've tryed countless times to get a serious endgame discussion going on alla, but the threads always end up degenerating into "LOL STOP WHINING KOENIG BODY ISN'T THAT HARD TO KILL NUB LOL LYKE NIDHOGG IS ONRY LIKE LEVEL 90 LOL I CAN KILL THAT WITH A WHM!!", or just completely ignored.

    But ya, sign up, and post. Gonna go make a thread right now about how tp given per melee swing should be reduced... I'll link it after I'm done.

    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... m=0;page=1

    GOGOGO

  2. #2

    Post an idea that makes sense, get karma raped. HURRAY~

  3. #3

    If you get 6-7 tp per swing w/o store tp the mob gets 9-10 tp per swing, just a small error in your post which contributes to how ridiculous melee are on hnms.

  4. #4
    Relic Shield
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    Don't forget the "crafting compass". I believe that originated from Alla as well.

    I also got rated down to 1.50 for calling a SMN/BLM(/BRD) EXP leeches. Alas.

  5. #5
    Melee Summoner
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    every second you spend on alla, you lose a braincell forever

  6. #6
    blax n gunz
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    When BG held a face-to-face interview with Sage Sundi they asked him some pretty direct questions and informed him that there is a lot that is specifically broken with FFXI endgame in general and 3 kings in particular. If he didn't listen, or pass along any information, what do you think the SE-employed forum goon is going to do when he sees your post on alla?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrObvious
    If you get 6-7 tp per swing w/o store tp the mob gets 9-10 tp per swing, just a small error in your post which contributes to how ridiculous melee are on hnms.
    Yeah, fix this orfeo before you get flamed!

    Edit:
    Anyway, I wanted to say more, but posted hastily. I just want to point a few things out:

    Although I understand the reason behind wanting the TP changed, it seems it would greatly change XP PT dynamics, as the mob would probably only do 2 TPs moves ever each time it's killed (assuming a mob now does around 6-8TP moves normally when killed, and reducing TP gain rate of the mob by 1/4 to 1/7 of what it currently is). This detracts somewhat from mob difficulty.

    Being able to have enough subtle blow to give a mob 0TP seems like a bit much. I know it was said only as an example, but probably is better left out.

  8. #8
    Xavier
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    Quote Originally Posted by nivlakian
    Quote Originally Posted by DrObvious
    If you get 6-7 tp per swing w/o store tp the mob gets 9-10 tp per swing, just a small error in your post which contributes to how ridiculous melee are on hnms.
    Yeah, fix this orfeo before you get flamed!

    Edit:
    Anyway, I wanted to say more, but posted hastily. I just want to point a few things out:

    Although I understand the reason behind wanting the TP changed, it seems it would greatly change XP PT dynamics, as the mob would probably only do 2 TPs moves ever each time it's killed (assuming a mob now does around 6-8TP moves normally when killed, and reducing TP gain rate of the mob by 1/4 to 1/7 of what it currently is). This detracts somewhat from mob difficulty.

    Being able to have enough subtle blow to give a mob 0TP seems like a bit much. I know it was said only as an example, but probably is better left out.
    Almost as much as having 6 blms 1 shot the mob and it never doing a tp move.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    Quote Originally Posted by nivlakian
    Quote Originally Posted by DrObvious
    If you get 6-7 tp per swing w/o store tp the mob gets 9-10 tp per swing, just a small error in your post which contributes to how ridiculous melee are on hnms.
    Yeah, fix this orfeo before you get flamed!

    Edit:
    Anyway, I wanted to say more, but posted hastily. I just want to point a few things out:

    Although I understand the reason behind wanting the TP changed, it seems it would greatly change XP PT dynamics, as the mob would probably only do 2 TPs moves ever each time it's killed (assuming a mob now does around 6-8TP moves normally when killed, and reducing TP gain rate of the mob by 1/4 to 1/7 of what it currently is). This detracts somewhat from mob difficulty.

    Being able to have enough subtle blow to give a mob 0TP seems like a bit much. I know it was said only as an example, but probably is better left out.
    Almost as much as having 6 blms 1 shot the mob and it never doing a tp move.
    That is true, which is why it seems to me SE would more likely increase the TP gained from magic than decrease the amount gained from melee.

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by nivlakian
    That is true, which is why it seems to me SE would more likely increase the TP gained from magic than decrease the amount gained from melee.
    Having all spells give 10 tp is pretty broken anyway. I'd like to see them lower tp given by melees AND increase tp given by higher tier magic, but knowing SE they'll just increase tp given by magic.

  11. #11
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrObvious
    Quote Originally Posted by nivlakian
    That is true, which is why it seems to me SE would more likely increase the TP gained from magic than decrease the amount gained from melee.
    Having all spells give 10 tp is pretty broken anyway. I'd like to see them lower tp given by melees AND increase tp given by higher tier magic, but knowing SE they'll just increase tp given by magic.
    If they touch TP by magic, not only will thieves, and nin and others not being able to melee HNM, blm wont be able to do damage because "OMG YOUR KILLING US WITH ALL THE TP". Then, they change the game's name to "Summoner Fantasy XI" because it will be a SMN onry since they give 0 TP to the mob.

  12. #12

    For every decent suggestion on AK there are about 20 bad ones so the likelyhood of them taking a good one just doesn't fit the odds. I highly doubt for the most part the devs read AK on a consistant basis. A lot of ideas are universal and if you spend any time on a forum you'll know this because there always spawns 5-6 posts covering the exact same idea and it's usually within a couple days if not hours of eachother. Times that by the number of forums and people actually submitting suggestions with the proper method it would just seem AK is responsable.

    The Ahkore post is something different. That probably got printed and some guy read it, posted what he thought was good. For the most part the idea is fine with the exception of BST. So while I commend you for your movement to fix melees I believe directions need to be taken that extend far beyond AK. If anyone wants to submit articles/editorials to me there is a good chance I will post them. They are rant like in nature, except they have a purpose and make good suggestions and if you want to email them to mailto:[email protected] then I will read them and post them unless they have no point. A website needs to take on the responsablity of being the community voice and outreach. While it's been a pipedream of mine for awhile now, it is incredibly hard to do when a site like Stratics has faded completely off the map for FFXI because of previous management and being currently understaffed. I am trying though and I will keep trying until it kills me or I finally just get so fed up with the game.



    I must admit though, well the TP fix devastated DRG's way too much, the TP thing was indeed broken and being exploited. I'm glad they fixed it, they just took way too long to respond to the other problems it created which they are becoming quite notorious for.

    Imagine the inflation without the AH tax thing, why they made it so small I don't understand really. Anytime people whine how high it is I laugh.

    Rangers were too powerful the nerf should have been less as their job dictates being powerful just not that excessive, now the preferred solution would to raise everyone else up a little but SE took the easier path.

    I will give them small credit in the fact they try to fix things, but they just need to employ them better and be conscious of what the effect is, but people also need to be more vocal in their complaints and AK just isn't the right place. So if you don't feel like trying my method then I suggest using the proper POL method of submitting suggestions. Submit the same one once a week until you get a response and urge others to do the same.

    In response to your suggestion, like others mentioned your info is wrong and here's some food for thought from my opinion. SE created the TP issue on purpose... mobs are supposed to WS more it's what makes them hard. SE never expected us to just make BLM armies but we did because we found a way to eliminate the challenge by exploiting the low TP gain of magic. Personally, as Masochistic as it sounds I would prefer they nerfed black mages and increased the TP they gave because I don't want mobs to be so easy that the game gets incredibly boring. XP parties would go insane with this fix as downtime would barely exist and white mages everywhere would have so little to do, because of these chains you would actually find less mobs in the zones and it would in turn screw up chains and make everyones XP less. Ranger burn parties cleared areas so fast, if everyone does that... no mobs to pull, chain dies. In order to combat this lack of challenge from TP moves, SE has just been making their mobs next to impossible and the game is all about Zerg damage. We all call ourselves strategists and skilled but really, not much I do in the game anymore seems skilled but instead a same repeated strategy over and over again.

    I also disagree on the other point you made. I can't deal damage as fast as a blm, yes there are hate issues but it's the strength in numbers element of it that makes it excessive. Now I think Black mage is supposed to be powerful, but to be that much more powerful. With a lot of melees just doing spike damage trick attack weaponskills black mages can lash out more with less recourse and really just dish out more damage in really short spans of time. To me it's like they always have 100 tp and sneak attack recast is 5 seconds. They should remain more powerful but there should certainly be negatives to this power and a TP increase on spells might just do that.

    So while I too would like to see melees "fixed" and useful so they can melee again, I think there would be some negatives that would accompany your big idea. Now I could be wrong in some of my statements as well, I would welcome debate on it. I mostly took this position to show that a truely good solution needs to see balance from all perspectives and not just HNM.

    I hope with some work we can get SE to really listen to some of the things we have to say.

  13. #13

    5 BLMs on a mob, each do a Thunder IV, mob gains 50 TP.

    5 Melee's on a mob, each have 5 attack rounds (no DA's), mob has enough TP to rape you 5 times over.

    5 BLMs did 700 damage each Thunder IV, mob loses 3500 HP.

    5 Melee's did 50 damage each swing (let's say 5 war/nin), mob loses 2500 HP and melee's are raped by TP moves.

    Does this seem fair?

    What makes it worse is that Melee's won't even hit that hard on most stronger HNMs, account with missing and using WS and melee's are generally fucked when it comes to HNMs.

    All that needs to be done is the TP given in proportion of the damage taken (maybe based on total HP/HPlost). This way if a mob has 10000 HP and you hit it for 100 it won't get a lot of TP (like 1-2%) but if a mob has 1000 and you hit for 100 it would get a lot more

    That's like a rough idea I dunno I didn't think about it much

  14. #14
    Melee Summoner
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    Who wants to take a bet that they don't read any of those posts and that they randomly select from the list of feedback suggestions?

    Who wants more Fishing Ranking!? WHO IS WITH ME?!

  15. #15

    The TP difference is a big deal in certain situations, but there's more to the issue that makes BLMs prefered. There's a lot of mobs that are kited in this game, and most melee are just plain fucked in that aspect. Even SMNs had major problems with that although Nether Blast is gonna help considerably. On kited mobs nukes, Nether and Chi are prefered, not for Tp issues but because its insanely hard to hit running mobs. BLMs also have the only real method of crowd control that isn't a 2hour with -ga spells, which gives them favor on all multiple mob BC situations.

    The TP itself is primarily an issue on all wyrm type monsters and even on those I think people wouldn't care so much if they could use the main advantage melee have when it comes to spike damage, SATA. If you could safely do SATA skillchains on Fafnir or Tiamat without triggering Flail, it wouldn't matter too much the TP you give, because it'd be insane damage with hate put on tanks.

    One way they could help melee be more useful, by simply improving what melee already do: make skillchains land. On HNMs right now the only purpose of skillchains is the MB, because your chance of unresisted Light for example is abysmal. If skillchains actually went unresisted, then there would be a point to not only complex skillchains (beyond the MB bonus climbing) but to relic WS skillchain effects. Light for 4000 damage (outside Apollyon) SATAd on a tank? Yeah that would be pretty nice. Its pretty lame that even on xp mobs at high level skillchains rarely go unresisted outside KRT type situations.

  16. #16

    Only 2 mobs (that people like to kill) are easily melee'd if you know what to do, I dunno much about the CoP pop NMs (like Kurrea) cause they suck, but the main 2 (KB and Kirin) are easy.

    KB stop alot to cast Meteor and to buff himself with Flame Armour or Warcry (lol) so you can get quite a few hit on him during that time, not to mention he doesn't run fast and is Gravitied most of the time making it easier to hit him.

    Kirin stops alot as well to spam TP moves and cast long ass spells (Quake and Stone V anyone?) so SC and melee'ing isn't really the issue on him.

    Main thing about melee's is that they don't get to attack long enough for the damage to build up to do any decent damage, and melee damage is low (with sushi) or hit rate is raped (with meat).

    SC's are nice but some jobs can't put up insane WS damage and rely more on DoT then Spike damage, I do agree that SC doing more damage would be nice but seeing melee damage buffed (ok maybe not) or TP changed would be a lot better I think.

  17. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Lordwafik
    If they touch TP by magic, not only will thieves, and nin and others not being able to melee HNM, blm wont be able to do damage because "OMG YOUR KILLING US WITH ALL THE TP". Then, they change the game's name to "Summoner Fantasy XI" because it will be a SMN onry since they give 0 TP to the mob.
    If you believe some people on this forum, thieves are already banned from hnms except for the last 1% anyway, and I don't see nins using katanas very often either My linkshells lets thieves in for the whole fight, I guess we aren't typical or elitist enough

    Then all they have to do is make bloodpacts give the mobs tp...can you honestly say that doing several hundred damage without giving the mob tp or getting hate is balanced? You can at least make some kind of argument for blm, like they build hate and have the possibility to die while doing there damage whereas on most hnm melee can sata the majority of their hate onto a tank.

    I don't see why melees should be "slaves" to blms or smns, I really don't. The harder the mob, the more this rings true. This is "Mage Fantasy XI." Melees pay obscene amounts of money for gear that results in them underperforming in terms of usefulness compared to mages. Although with all the people playing blm, blm equipment and spells are getting more expensive whereas they used to be cheap before. Melees moreorless exist to create skillchains for the blm army to burst on. When it's a viable strategy to just throw smns or blms at something, but not to throw melees at something there's an imbalance.

  18. #18

    Pretty positive SMN bloodpacts give TP, just some less than others. Otherwise, why would SMNs use Spinning Dive over say, Mountain Buster or other stuff... I've seen them do more than Spinning Dive ;x

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parshath
    Pretty positive SMN bloodpacts give TP, just some less than others. Otherwise, why would SMNs use Spinning Dive over say, Mountain Buster or other stuff... I've seen them do more than Spinning Dive ;x
    they don't give TP. they use Spinning Dive because it's the most accurate BP with the highest damage. Predator Claws is the highest damage overall but multi-hit means low accuracy and not reliable on high evasion mobs (HNMs).

    other BPs fall somewhere inbetween those two that's why they don't get used as much.

  20. #20

    You can melee Kirin and KB when they cast, but you're relying on them stopping to cast. Landing melee hits once in awhile is never gonna compare with landing Chi reliably, or Nether Blast every 45s and so on. Its possible as a patchup solution, but its just not good for dot or TP building. Compare that with Faf where a MNK/WAR with decent melee gear can do more DoT than a MNK/WHM with maxed out MND, in that case the real difference maker is TP (no TP whatsoever MNK/WHM, giant mountains of TP MNK/WAR).

    The TP you give Kirin pretty clearly doesn't matter considering his state of permanent Meditate, and KB's TP isn't really much of an issue either. Melee can salvage something out of those fights, but nobody will put melee in over BLMs Nether or Chi unless they're doing it specifically so everyone gets to fight a bit. When people think of TP issues, they're really thinking about 1 thing: Wyrm wing WS. Some other mobs have decently strong TP moves, but really when you think about it Wings are all people think about in this case.

    Pretty much all melee jobs can participate in SCs, some jobs are better as closers since they're better suited for SATA but overall they can all do something.

    So basically melee get a whole variety of different downsides, TP alone would only help on certain specific things.

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