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Thread: Thief Job Ability: Hide!     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
    Sea Torques
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    Thief Job Ability: Hide!

    http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/vie...=asc&start=105

    Sorry! I didn't want to bump this sort of old thread!

    Somewhere in the thread people started talking about the Thief Ability Hide and such, and I had some more questions/observations!

    The other day~ I went with 6 other people to kill Ash Dragon, the Ninja would just tank Ash Dragon while me and the Samurai were getting TP from Bombs and Lizzies (When Meditate was down). The Ninja would go behind Ash Dragon and I would SATA+Shark Bite on the Ninja, and the Samurai would SATA+Tachi: Kasha, then the Black Mage would Magic Burst Thunder IV or Thundaga III, blah blah... Anyways! Ash Dragon Aggros to Sound and Sight, and is not True Sight (Even though Somepage says it is, but its not!) Anyways~ I could still use Hide, and not be spotted by Ash Dragon.

    So hide must only be based on the "hate list" or something like that, which I guess is obvious!

    But I was wondering if anyone has tested this on True Sight monsters! using SATA+WS on someone as the only action they performed on the monster, then using hide. I would love to try this myself! But my LS really doesn't fight many True Sight monsters, except for Gods and such really, and even then I am only in the battle for like 5% of its HP! and tanks are moving around and being very uncooperative towards TA!

    I only ask because in the thread listed above, we had talked about using SATA+Hide+WS on things like Nidhogg and Fafnir etc. Though, I am sure that a THF/SAM only using SATA+Hide+WS on them, and only getting TP through Meditate wouldn't be as effective as a THF/SAM using TA+WS, then getting TP through a Meditate and a few melee hits, because Magic Bursts are the main damage against such things right? (I have never fought either one before! Can never get my LS to make it to Dragon's Aery! even if I get the exact ToD for them several days in a row!) It would just be interesting to know is all!

  2. #2
    Physicist
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    If you want easy true sight mobs just head to Uleg.Range and fight some -taurs. I went there to test if Skulkers Cape worked on true-sight mobs (answer: no)

  3. #3
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    If you want easy true sight mobs just head to Uleg.Range and fight some -taurs. I went there to test if Skulkers Cape worked on true-sight mobs (answer: no)
    Guess I have to find someone to SATA on!

    EDIT: Bah! I just had an experience party there like yesterday XD /slap kupo!

  4. #4
    Old Merits
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    Do it on a bard, they love that.

  5. #5
    Black Belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigram
    Do it on a bard, they love that.
    /nod

  6. #6
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigram
    Do it on a bard, they love that.
    When I experience on my Taru WHM, I put up Stoneskin and blink, and then run up in front on the THF right before he uses SATA+WS! Of course this is only when I have a Ninja who is good and only needs Regen II every other fight due to AoEs and such, so other than enfeebles, haste, erase and such, for the rest of the fight, I can either a) rest until my Taru MP is full, or b) goof off and get SATA'd on!


    Actually... on my Mithra THF, my first SATA+WS was on a Taru BLM!

  7. #7

    enthusiasm [Found it!]

  8. #8
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sefier
    enthusiasm [Found it!]
    He's going to get a hernia if he's not careful

  9. #9
    Relic Weapons
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    Not engaging the mob at all (HNM or normal mob), then sata/hide+ws and disengage + walk away = no hate on the thief, thus obviously not on the hate list at all. Once you're on a truesight mob's hate list though, you can't hide ws anymore.

  10. #10

    !!!

  11. #11
    Banned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex
    Not engaging the mob at all (HNM or normal mob), then sata/hide+ws and disengage + walk away = no hate on the thief, thus obviously not on the hate list at all. Once you're on a truesight mob's hate list though, you can't hide ws anymore.
    CoP mobs ruin this, though...at least I believe sea and Limbus ones do. As soon as ANYONE in your party/alliance aggro a mob, you cannot hide from it. It does make sense, because the mob technically does SEE you after someone else aggro's it (I think if you're out of range of mob hide still works) but just letting people know that.

    Example of this: NW Apollyon run. I was going to open with SATAHideSB, nin pulled Cyp, my hide failed, didn't get to pin as much hate.

  12. #12

    Why are you yelling ; ; > Kuponut

  13. #13
    Hydra
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    Hide and SA - Queue Mechanics

    Usually if the enemy you are fighting is not in a BC type environment, you will be able to get a Hide off on anything if you don't enter it's hate queue. If another enemy has you in it's queue while you attempt a Hide, you'll get uncovered. If you are doing an ADD party TP build, don't attempt your Hide until your TP builder is dead.

    BC type environments will enqueue everyone after a player in your party takes aggro (an example being an Avatar fight). The trick there is usually to activate Hide prior to anyone taking aggro from the enemy in order to allow you to remain under the effects of Hide and giving you the opportunity to do SA from any direction.

    I haven't been able to drop out of a hate list after being queued by a True Sight enemy, but I can stay out for a little while if I get lucky and don't follow through with auto attacks. If nothing else the initial strike on the enemy can be a nasty hate staple onto a tank with no other action required by them. No special setups needed, just a position behind the tank (as if you were doing a regular TA+WS) and you can make their hold sticky from the start. Perform no move that would either turn an enemy's name red or assist anyone currently in the hate queue (like Warcry).

    I use EV sometimes as a chain starter so the heavier WS (Steel Cyclone/Spiral Hell) can close, at least when this method is used there's no doubt in WS#2's mind where the hate is going to be and I'm not required to turn anything as it's going straight on the active tank anyway. If you do something like the Antlion and you've hit the spawner, kill it off before doing your Hide or it'll uncover your attempts to Hide from the main one.

    Examples


    Since it totally depends on queue avoidance, try to avoid doing any of these actions before doing Hide. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

    • *Warcry's AoE hitting an engaged player
      *Steal/Mug
      *Hiding before the enemy is in combat mode (name red)
      *Curing an engaged player
      *Circle abilities granted to an engaged person (Ancient Circle, Arcane Circle)
      *Attempting to Hide from a sight aggro/tracking enemy with a scent/sound aggro pet.
      *Engaging multiple enemies and being in another live enemy's hate queue. (i.e. TPing on Raptor for Aspidochelone and trying to Hide while the Raptor is still alive)
      *BC Battle Hide after party entry into queue.


    The added benefit of being outside the queue means that any action performed on you by a RDM or WHM does nothing to change his/her hate queue standing with the monster as far as you're concerned.

    You can be Cure IV bombed until they run out of MP and the enemy won't turn to them. An aggroed target won't change it's initial target until it goes into combat (red name) mode or the aggroed player dies. In the CoP airship fight, you can have a PLD or NIN aggro all 5 Mammets and serve as the aggro tank. A WHM will not get hate switched to them no matter how much he's cured until the aggro tanker is dead (remember that BCs enter everyone into the queue). The enemies can't switch from initial aggro until shifted into the red name (combat) mode.

    Sight only trackers allow you the extra freedom to do anything with the knowledge that you can completely drop yourself from the queue at any time (allowing you the ability to use SA from any direction). You can even see a messed up order in the screenshot below, but you know you've got that freedom every 5 mins. TA won't uncover Hide, SA unfortunately does.


  14. #14
    Sea Torques
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    I'm too lazy to actually read and analyze all that, but the bullet points make it appear pretty thorough and well-researched. Nice job.

  15. #15
    Sea Torques
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    Wow Archain... /kneel O_O

    Sorry with my opening posts and the ones after that, guess I got a little carried away with exclamation marks, and didn't notice that until someone said it

    I have always wondered why Trick Attack didn't cancel Hide, but Sneak Attack did, it has never made sense to me, you would only hide so that you could sneak attack the monster from wherever, so to me, Sneak cancelling it, but not Trick Attack makes no sense to me

    oh, and Archain, your LS seems really nice for them to actually Position themselves and cooperate with you so that SATA can work, and your Damage is great too,

    Would be nice if I could get my LS to do that for me XD But, it seems hard, because my LS won't even do that for our SAM/THF

  16. #16

    1) Archain is nuts, learn it, love it. Nuts in a good way

    2) Lucky his LS positions for him? Archain is the best THF around, he'll position Chuck Norris with his eyes closed if it means he can get extra hate staple in their. Nice to be a BLM at Fafnir when you got Archain around, you know shit isn't gonna hit the fan all too soon.

  17. #17
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaru
    1) Archain is nuts, learn it, love it. Nuts in a good way

    2) Lucky his LS positions for him? Archain is the best THF around, he'll position Chuck Norris with his eyes closed if it means he can get extra hate staple in their. Nice to be a BLM at Fafnir when you got Archain around, you know shit isn't gonna hit the fan all too soon.
    Sounds great XD I am just used to most people I play with acting like they are in a level 40 Experience party with a Thief and refuse to stop moving because it is bothersome to them

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