Weapon skills where Double Attack can proc.

[aurik]

You can have DA and TA kick in on the same WS as THF/WAR with Brutal. Not positive about it working on DE (mainly use THF in Limbus for SC and placebo TH), but on Shark Bite it works quite well.

Its not super common, but with TA merits and Brutal its nor horribly rare either.

For HTH you can get 2 DAs as /WAR with Brutal also, I've seen it on RF DK and FH, probably works on everything but Asuran like everything else. Sig pic is a 13% (11+1+1) FH on MNK/WAR with coeurl/serk/focus/1 boost.

You can get 2 DAs without brutal on h2h and dual-wielded WS. Brutal doesn't add a "second" DA check; it merely rises your frequency of DA by 5%.

[Slott]

I use blau dolch and merc kris to the guy who asked, too lazy to quote. Anyway the 18% hits were actually on EXP mobs (VT/IT) my 20% hit was a hpemde. Demons/birds / weapons, gotten 18% alot. I exp pretty exclusively on thf (hate exping blm/smn) so...yeh ;/ But the tp wasnt caused due to AE hits and stuff.

[inafume]

I've never seen DE produce more than 16 tp. If I get anything above 16 tp, it's plainly visible as extra hits that show in the log either before or after the DE damage message.

18 TP = 13 TP DE + 5 TP from an offhand attack.

Seen as:
Inafume uses Dancing Edge.
The Ul'hpemde takes 735 points of damage.
Inafume hits the Ul'hpemde for 45 points of damage.

Sometimes it happens too fast to notice and you're left wondering how, but looking at the log it is pretty explainable.

[zymurgy]

you wouldn't.

sorry no, just no. Double attack gives you a lot more added damage than one hit missing costs you. I'm pretty sure it's a well noted fact that DA was removed from asuran, mabye one of out pre-RoZ players can chime in.

lawl Asuran was added post NA release... and since NA release came after RoZ release lawl

You play on PS2 or something?

[Palin]

you wouldn't.

sorry no, just no. Double attack gives you a lot more added damage than one hit missing costs you. I'm pretty sure it's a well noted fact that DA was removed from asuran, mabye one of out pre-RoZ players can chime in.

Not really, DA adds a 1.0 mod to the WS hit, same as all of Asuran's 8 hits. The damage should be almost exactly the same, techincally at least.

At last check offhand hits can't Double Attack or Triple Attack.

Its quite easy to tell using Dual Axes with Brutal, the difference between a 17 and 18 TP return w/o Rajas tricks, the damage is much higher.

[Nagamaki]

I didn't mean brutal was required, it just increases the chance of it happening by a pretty decent chunk. Like crit merits, it probably feels like a bigger difference than what parsing reveals just because you pay attention to it more, but its still a nice boost. On THF/WAR the combination of merited Triple with Brutal enhanced DA gives you a really solid chance of increased damage whenever you WS (not to mention a ridiculous attack rate).

[Slott]

know how your normal dancing edge will jump from 900 to 1200 lets say on an exp mob from 14 tp % to 16%? well 18% does 1500ish. It's not a 13 + 1 hit.

[Ichthyos]

I've been 75 for like two years, I've done thousands of Dancing Edges, and have not once seen an 18% return.

Maybe I'm just really unlucky.

[Slott]

Probably, I love the "Holy shit" responses when the mob drops over 30-40% from the ws. (got a 15% return on shark once, molech flat out died from 90%

[NynJa]

Slott wrote:
Quote:
Stilgar wrote:
No WS can go above 8 hits.

Hmm, maybe that's why we thieves never see more than 16 TP return on Dancing Edge.

Edit: To clarify, I mean THF/NIN's with 5 TP daggers. Normal Dancing Edge gives 14 TP (6 hits because of dual wield). Dancing Edge with 1 Triple Attack proc gives 16 TP (8 hits).


wrong, I've hit 18% tp at least 10 times(probably alot more), and I even got 20% tp return once, was 2500 damage dancing edge from the front on some EM sea mob (no sa or ta) and no, not an open mouth hpemde.

However getting 18% or 20% is really rare, and no I did not get hit for that 2% more tp.


No, again. Most likely you got a triple attack proc on the WS and then got hit by some kind of double attack from the mob. 16 + 2 = 18, and 16 + 2 +2 = 20. Hm, which daggers were you using though?

Max TP return a thf/nin will get is 16tp from WS with a triple attack proc. I got my brutal earring a month or two back and have noticed quite a few 15tp returns(double attack proc), and of course many 14tp returns(normal).

There's been a few times playing around with my M.Kris, I'll end up with 40+tp seemingly right after the WS, I know that is no where near possible return, I just got lucky with a main hand triple, and a M.Kris normal attack (usually 2-3) right after DE. It all just happens so fast because of haste/march/gear etc.

Now that I think about it though, maybe using two harpe type daggers(no clue why anyone would, but I've seen it) + brutal earring and raja's ring, your tp per hit might get raised, and your overall ws return upped.

I'm gonna have to go play with this a little while and see, but I kinda doubt it. Obviously the delay isn't worth the pitiful extra tp return on ws, if this is what's happening.

So, to sum it up.

Thf/nin.

Normal = 14%
Double Attack = 15%
Triple Attack = 16%

Thf/war.

Normal = 9%
Double Attack = 10%
Triple Attack = 11%

I never got hit. I get 18% tp returns often. You can see it from the massive damage itproduces compared to a normal 14 or 16% ws. And yes, I've jumped out of dancing edge w/ 45% tp before, but you can tell because you can see hey 6 damage hits just went off under my ws. At 18% or 20% neither happened, and I only got 20% once. The damage was huge, how else could you explain it? 2500 on a standalone dancing edge?

and 18% can definitely happened, its happened enough times with the high enough damage to back it up. No i don't have screenshots at this time but next time it happens ill ss it.

edit: that quote came out fucked up but gets its point out. -,-

damage goes up significantly compared to a 16% hit so it's not like im just seeing the tp number going up alone.

You're full of it

I have NEVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER gotten higher than 16% on a DE return.


You either took damage and didnt notice it, or you WSed late, very close to your next melee round, and those got factored in.

[Russta]

The other day while doing a 8-2 run through Hu'Xzoi for my friend, I had Rampage double attack thirteen times in a row, two of which were 2x double attack. I don't have any DA merits but I do have Brutal Earring and macro in AF2 pants.

I think...

[Slott]

I have no reason to lie about it. It happened several times for me, and i didn't get hit after, Although on the 20 tp% one it was a little weird because first it showed 18% then before the ws ended it jumped to 20, but i didnt get hit, and an attack round would have made it 23.

[aurik]

Obviously you play a different game than everyone else.

[Okgo!]

I'm glad some other thf chimed in, I thought maybe I was getting shafted for the past two years

[genome]

About the 16% vs 18+ tp, I also would imagine it was a fluke based on attacks going out of order in log and animation vs actual.
Take a look at this picture of me doing asuran fist with faith h2h and brutal (ninja sub):
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...FFXI/5hits.jpg
Now look at my TP exactly as the ws hits.. 46%!

That's probably because the 6+hits in one turn from 2hit + 2/3extra (faith or DA or both) + 1kick might have occurred right after asuran (as you can see I wasn't using hundred fists or anything but i was still punching so fast and often that the animation and log probably had trouble keeping up and staying in sync).
Also I found that I can hit up to 7 times per turn not counting counter, it's really rare but DA and faith can stack, giving 2-4 extra hits). DA from brutal and from war sub don't stack that way, just the probability of 1 or 2 DA occurring ('processing' as people say)

I can also say as a monk I never seen more than 8 hits tp during ws from asuran in all my years of being a monk, not from DA from war sub, and not even from triple attack (as rare as it is, from indra katars) or a combination of both.

I really wish they left asuran with the old TP rules, when you could get 110+ tp back from a single WS using the level 0 relic knuckles with 999 delay and could just spam asuran ><

[Eaglestrike]

On a few very rare cases I've gotten a 17% return from DE. No multi-hit weapon equipped, Blau/Sirocco, big damage. That's DA + TA proc. However, I have gotten a few 15% SB procs, which would be Triple attack mainhand and also offhand. While one theoretically could then get 18% DE's, to say you get it often is...not really believable.

16% is pretty normal for me, AF2 feet, capped merits, etc. 17% is really rare though, and I've never seen higher. I've been a 75THF for just under a year, capped my triple merits not tooooo long after and had my AF2 feet from before I was 75. I got Brutal within a month they came out, and I have yet to see over 17 and maybe seen 17 2-3 times total in my career as thf. I have no other 75 jobs yet and I'm always a thf when I do something.

[NynJa]

the 17% DE's are from subtle blow, rajas ring.

[Maxxthepenguin]

the 17% DE's are from subtle blow, rajas ring.

You mean store tp

[Priran]

The THF saying he gets 18-23% TP is flat out full of shit. 2 years this game has been out for NA and not one person has ever mentioned over 8 hits on a WS, and you say you get it "often".

It's called lag, you swung right before or right after your WS, and the WS's animation cancelled out the attack's.

[Eaglestrike]

the 17% DE's are from subtle blow, rajas ring.

I have a screenshot of me getting 12% tp return before I had any +store tp gear as thf/war. Double and Triple can proc during the same ws. And SE always rounds down anyway so unless you are getting 6%+ base per swing you won't get extra like that.

And I'm guessing triple can only proc 2x in DE if you miss a hit because that would explain no 18%+ DE's from anyone aside from that one guy. So the 8-hits-per-ws is for all ws's.