New Vrtra complication

[Aviendha]

My LS went to go pay a visit to Vrtra today, we had what seemed to be well more than enough strenth to take him down. We went at him with all the regular ways people talk about taking him down on these boards, and that have proven effective before~ SMN for main DD, had almost 2 full ADD teams with 10+ blms, and 6 or so mnks plus loads of misc DD and some ninja vokes mixed into the adds as well for help with claiming pops quickly.

The ~problem~ we ran into seemed to be the new claiming system. His summons share hate with vrtra, i know, but the new system seems to have complicated things greatly. Even 3-4 vokes wouldn't even claim the spawns, they just stayed unclaimed and kept chasing the kiters. It was so rediculous that at times, the adds would die STILL unclaimed and chasing the kiters. Now, this alone could be handled- we just slept/nuked/grav the unclaimed adds, but here's the kicker:

Occasionally as well, a kiter in the main ally would voke vrtra, and that would seem to actually claim the ADD to the main ally where ADD teams couldn't even touch them. This actually happened where an add team had a mob claimed and was killing it, but then main ally kiter voked Vrtra, and the spawn went purple to them and they ceased to be able to attack it, because that claim switched to the main ally.

Needless to say this caused some huge problems since we couldnt get spawns off the kite team that claim-linked without having to constantly drop people to CFH the mobs. I realize this is normal when misclaims by avatars happen, but it's another complication to watch for.

So I wanted to do 3 things~
1.) Ask if anyone else has run into this?
2.) Give an advanced caution to anyone trying the fight soon.
3.) Ask if anyone has suggestions for how to adjust a strategy, because right now, it seems absurd.

[Skold_07]

Sleep. Nuke. Gravity... why does it matter if they are claimed or not?

[Lordwafik]

An adjusted strat could be lullaby+gravity immediatley on the summon, but yeah SE screwed up a bit, I can see adjustments happening.

[Aviendha]

Sleep. Nuke. Gravity... why does it matter if they are claimed or not?

We were doing that as often as we could, but the issue was more complex than that- it would actually claim to the main ally, so add teams couldn't sleep/grav/anything to it.

[Fira]

sounds like its messed up, it 'may' get fixed soon if you send in pol message

[aurik]

The summons have ALWAYS strongly shared hate with vrtra. Last time I was down there (as a mnk in the room-cleanup pt) I voked->asuran'd one of his summons and it kept chasing the tank.

The only difference now is that they stay yellow, means you can't CFH them...but who cares? They're yellow. Nuke away.

[Zigma]

the summons always share hate until about, if i remember correctly 10 to 15% where they start breaking off and going after random people (usually the blm's)

[Jotaru]

Even 3-4 vokes wouldn't even claim the spawns, they just stayed unclaimed and kept chasing the kiters. It was so rediculous that at times, the adds would die STILL unclaimed and chasing the kiters.

We just downed Vrtra last night (First NA's on our server, keke. Yeah, we're a bit behind other servers, but wth, it was nice.) and we had this 'problem'... If you'll call it that. However, we didn't really have any difficulty with this. Mobs will chase tanks no matter who has them claimed, so claiming them or not makes no difference whatsoever. If your main ally claimed Skeletons it was because an avatar hit them inadvertently (happened to us 3x) or some other thing... However, through the course of the entire battle we didn't have one inadvertent claim change or irregular claiming to the main ally. Most likely what happened was someone did hit a mob and didn't realize it - the claiming system isn't to blame.

[SephYuyX]

The only difference now is that they stay yellow, means you can't CFH them...but who cares? They're yellow. Nuke away.

Yeah, as long as theyre yellow it doesnt really matter, just kill them fast, and wont even have to worry about CFHn Vrtra.

[Fira]

The summons have ALWAYS strongly shared hate with vrtra. Last time I was down there (as a mnk in the room-cleanup pt) I voked->asuran'd one of his summons and it kept chasing the tank.

The only difference now is that they stay yellow, means you can't CFH them...but who cares? They're yellow. Nuke away.

he said some of them they weren't able to attack, even while they were yellow

[aurik]

When the add teams manage to claim they should CFH. That's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure.

Also, wtf @ bold blue text. GTFO.

[Russta]

Also, wtf @ bold blue text. GTFO.

What makes that point worse is she actually edited it from normal text to that...

[Janice]

The new claiming system is dumb. Fighting roaches.....

A roach pops and links and starts attacking a BST pet. I stun it. It doesn't turn red to me, so I start nuking it and then right before my spell goes off, the BST dias it. I now can't sleep it and it hits me once. But then it starts attacking the BST pet (It's still red to me). The pet had initial hate from linking.

So I guess its semi broken when it comes to BST pets.

[Kiro]

Also, wtf @ bold blue text.

Ahhh, dun ban me lpz lolz!!!!!1

[Maranella]

we ran into a weird (and rare) situation @ fafnir due to new system. Our blm just happened to be casting sleepga on darters when fafnir popped, hitting him with it. problem was opposing ls had more emnity from vokes/stuns, so they got claim. We then had blm drop a big cure on himself to test it, and sure enough bam! fafnir flipped around with switched claim to us, but one shotted blm with hate. . .thus nothing accomplished ;;;;

Weird thing was, even after blm died we couldn;t pull hate back...but took breath and wings npok in our whole alliance. kinda messed up how it works

Guess if they wanted to fix KB i understand, but if he goes white you could always have a ranger run up and EES or something, emnity doesn't look to be a huge factor as long as you can add a large amount quickly.

[Lordwafik]

Another thing we discovered, whoever kills it while it's white will get the drops. So yay for being KS'd, it just means whoever does the final blow counts, no matter the colour.

[DrObvious]

The ~problem~ we ran into seemed to be the new claiming system. His summons share hate with vrtra, i know, but the new system seems to have complicated things greatly. Even 3-4 vokes wouldn't even claim the spawns, they just stayed unclaimed and kept chasing the kiters. It was so rediculous that at times, the adds would die STILL unclaimed and chasing the kiters. Now, this alone could be handled- we just slept/nuked/grav the unclaimed adds, but here's the kicker:

I'm not sure why you would have a voker for summons, just have bards sleep them(or rdm for ghosts) and have rdm gravity on summon.

Occasionally as well, a kiter in the main ally would voke vrtra, and that would seem to actually claim the ADD to the main ally where ADD teams couldn't even touch them. This actually happened where an add team had a mob claimed and was killing it, but then main ally kiter voked Vrtra, and the spawn went purple to them and they ceased to be able to attack it, because that claim switched to the main ally.

Every time I fight Vrtra someone in the main ally claims a summon. I don't believe this is a bug, new or old. As someone else mentioned, it probably has to do with your summoners.

[Vlaid]

I don't think the issue that was being addressed was whether or not you could still obtain Vrtra drops, or even "who cares if its not able to be cfh'd". For those who have fought Vrtra, you must know that "claiming" (making the monster turn any other color than orange or white) a summon, while you are in the MAIN kite alliance. Is a big no no. It disables the blms/misc. melee from being able to touch them, seeing as they will become purple to the people outside of the MAIN alliance. That seems to be whats happening here. The issue isnt who the summon has hate on, its the fact that when you are voking Vrtra, its being misinterpreted in the system as "claiming" the summons as well. I took a party down there to mess with it. And I noticed it as well. Hurray for 6 HPs..Anyways I smell another 'fix' from the wonderful, hard working team (/sarcasm off) that is <SE>.

[benny]

To answer the question posed by the OP, this did not happen to us that I noticed when we killed it a couple days ago. We did have 2 or 3 main ally claims on adds which I believe were due to avatars being as dumb as they know how to be. When it happens, just have someone in main ally quickly take hate on it (turn it red) and drop with it to CFH. Worked like a charm for us each time.

[Maguspk]

I don't see the problem, it can't possibly be that hard for the main alliance to kill the occasional mob claimed by them. FFXI doesn't always work out like a cookie cutter strat, sometimes you have to innovate and adapt to a new situation.

What's in your main alliance? I assume you're using SMNs and maybe BLMs for DD? Or maybe even some quick TP users like /SAM or SAM/THF? Can't you have all the smns just skip a round of vrtra spanking for a little add spanking? Or just have the BLMs in the main manaburn the adds, or gravity them.