SHADOW MANTLE STOLEN! Shadow Ring found!

[Jotaru]

Its ok Valefor had a SMN main lot and win it, I think he is leveling PLD though. Anyways the moral of the story is to only do LS Dynmais. I mean its not like its hard.

If it hasn't been said before... cry harder, bitch harder, moan loader. Done?

If the rules is everyone lots, that's the rules. Has nothing to do with this.

[Heian]

Its ok Valefor had a SMN main lot and win it, I think he is leveling PLD though. Anyways the moral of the story is to only do LS Dynmais. I mean its not like its hard.

If it hasn't been said before... cry harder, bitch harder, moan loader. Done?

If the rules is everyone lots, that's the rules. Has nothing to do with this.

Yeah I know, thats why I am saying only do LS Dynamis to avoid crap like this. Honestly free lot is the fairest way to handle something like that, but we all know that Tanks are the people who will benefit the most from it. Personally I could care less, and why I say open Dynamis is dumb, because there will always be issues like this.

[Rocl]

Its ok Valefor had a SMN main lot and win it, I think he is leveling PLD though. Anyways the moral of the story is to only do LS Dynmais. I mean its not like its hard.

Honestly why does this always come up as though it's some crime?

because it's fucking hilarious that one of the best tank mantles in the game is rotting in some retard's MH Storage instead of being made use of by a tank (without whom there would be no mantle) because he had to be a loot whore

God, I love that joke in your sig :D

[threevo]

if you stack +fire resist gear and use Resentment Cape, i think the -5% would result in alot less damage reduction than without a +resist build, which is why a +12 mantle might be more effective.

dont quote me on this, im just speculating

id use a lamia mantle+1 personally over everything except cerb maybe which i doubt ill ever have. /DRK that gives u +26MP and 4MDB in a place u cant get any other resist gear

[Krandor]

if you stack +fire resist gear and use Resentment Cape, i think the -5% would result in alot less damage reduction than without a +resist build, which is why a +12 mantle might be more effective.

dont quote me on this, im just speculating

id use a lamia mantle+1 personally over everything except cerb maybe which i doubt ill ever have. /DRK that gives u +26MP and 4MDB in a place u cant get any other resist gear

I've wanted to test these out and compare how they would work, since Lamia Mantle+1 would have the advantage of working on more mobs then just Tiamat or Bahamut. Haven't fought either of those guy since ToAU came out though :X

[Lockecole]

if you stack +fire resist gear and use Resentment Cape, i think the -5% would result in alot less damage reduction than without a +resist build, which is why a +12 mantle might be more effective.

dont quote me on this, im just speculating

id use a lamia mantle+1 personally over everything except cerb maybe which i doubt ill ever have. /DRK that gives u +26MP and 4MDB in a place u cant get any other resist gear

Resentment Cape: Isnt -5% Magical Damage better then 4MDB? Not to mention 2 enmity ontop of that.

[threevo]

if you stack +fire resist gear and use Resentment Cape, i think the -5% would result in alot less damage reduction than without a +resist build, which is why a +12 mantle might be more effective.

dont quote me on this, im just speculating

id use a lamia mantle+1 personally over everything except cerb maybe which i doubt ill ever have. /DRK that gives u +26MP and 4MDB in a place u cant get any other resist gear

Resentment Cape: Isnt -5% Magical Damage better then 4MDB? Not to mention 2 enmity ontop of that.

it could be, but enmity really isnt an issue with /drk. I havent been able to test, not to mention the -5% is latent active

[Krandor]

if you stack +fire resist gear and use Resentment Cape, i think the -5% would result in alot less damage reduction than without a +resist build, which is why a +12 mantle might be more effective.

dont quote me on this, im just speculating

id use a lamia mantle+1 personally over everything except cerb maybe which i doubt ill ever have. /DRK that gives u +26MP and 4MDB in a place u cant get any other resist gear

Resentment Cape: Isnt -5% Magical Damage better then 4MDB? Not to mention 2 enmity ontop of that.

With Fire Resist piled up your average damage taken is going to already be quite low. It's lying around on KI and I'm too lazy to find it but Meowolf in Thoseguys said he took his average Tiamat Air damage down from 31 to 29 after tossing Lamia Mantle+1 on (I don't know what he was using in his backslot before then).

I don't quite understand how "resisted" moves count in terms of damage reduction, but if the game thinks of the 31 damage as the "full" damage you are taking, then a 5% decrease with Resentment Cape wouldn't really do much (eh actually doing the math I guess it's about the same, just a question of whether you'd want Enmity or MP in the backslot)

[RKenshin]

I just skimmed through what was recently said on the last five pages, and wanted to make a few comments.

First... Need I remind some people of the purpose of macros?

Mostly I see a whole bunch of "wearing enmity is better since you don't get hit much" and "never take defending ring off" and blahblahblah... That's why you use macros to adjust your gear instantly to different situations, duh? Sure no matter what occasionally you'll have that double attack on the last shadow and get hit, but those are hardly ever anything to worry about IMO.

Personally I tank in about +39 enmity (with merits), and no I don't normally wear my Defending Ring nor would I wear Shadow Mantle/Ring (if I had either) with it, I keep full Enmity on almost full time. If something crazy happens like an unexpected -ga or wing or AoE and timers are not ready (which isn't too uncommon), right before I know I'll take damage I switch to defense gear, and that's where Defending Ring and Mantle, etc, will come into play. There's no reason for me to wear that gear otherwise, I react fast enough so that I don't get hit in Enmity gear 90% of the time.

Of course then some people are like "pff, I don't ever get hit.. if you can't tank Tiamat without hitting timers you suck." Tiamat is a baby, with the proper support bragging about being able to tank him effectively at this point in time is like bragging about tanking Genbu or Adamantoise. Below 20% he gets rough, but he's so easy to take care of it's hardly a worry and nothing compared to most others. How about we talk about something that's a little more difficult to tank without taking damage, like Bahamut V2 (solo tanking, I might add) or Cerberus (triple attack gogo) or Ouryu (just plain not fun), all of which you'll take a good amount of damage no matter what you do. Things like Shadow gear have saved the tank's life in fights like that, whether NIN or PLD, and pretty often too. Too many people seem to act like Tiamat is the pinacle of tanking, 'if you can tank him you can tank anything! If you don't get hit on him you won't get hit on anything!' It couldn't be more untrue.

Oh, and yeah Demetrios is right.. While I don't personally have PLD leveled, I do watch the log very carefully during fights (naturally as a NIN), and a NIN with the right gear will take if not equal then less damage than a PLD normally will from physical (heck even most magic) attacks. I have proof of this as well in screen shots if you want it, with the damage I take from most of the toughest HNMs in the game. It's by all means no offense meant, and I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, I'm just saying what I believe to be the truth based on my observations over these two years I've been involved in endgame activities.

And, lastly.. Something I personally find to be even better than Tiamat hitting for 15-30 damage each time.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9878/ffxi8117hd.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5231/ffxi8120vy.jpg

Nothing better than reducing 800 damage to 89, and 1200 damage to 100.

[Lockecole]

Personally I tank in about +39 enmity (with merits), and no I don't normally wear my Defending Ring nor would I wear Shadow Mantle/Ring (if I had either) with it, I keep full Enmity on almost full time. If something crazy happens like an unexpected -ga or wing or AoE and timers are not ready (which isn't too uncommon), right before I know I'll take damage I switch to defense gear, and that's where Defending Ring and Mantle, etc, will come into play. There's no reason for me to wear that gear otherwise, I react fast enough so that I don't get hit in Enmity gear 90% of the time.

Well the question is, do you solo tank just about everything? Because usually on our fights, our BRDs, WHMs, RDMs all have EXCELLENT hate control, and we've had a dozen Tiamats without a single draw-in, death, or sleep...with very few members also. I'm not tooting my horn, just attesting to it usually involving our tanks having EQUAL hate, not tip-top hate. I've seen fights where especially on Tiamat, a tank goes too gung-ho and completely outmatches his other 2 tanks, and eats 3 melee hits from Tiamat and dies, whereas if hate was balanced, 1 hit would have been more then enough for a Flash or Cure to transfer hate. Same is true of Cerberus, Ouryu, all fights where your tanks have to be equal, so both can transfer hate to use up Aerial Armors, or to help the other tank recast.

Of course then some people are like "pff, I don't ever get hit.. if you can't tank Tiamat without hitting timers you suck." Tiamat is a baby, with the proper support bragging about being able to tank him effectively at this point in time is like bragging about tanking Genbu or Adamantoise. Below 20% he gets rough, but he's so easy to take care of it's hardly a worry and nothing compared to most others. How about we talk about something that's a little more difficult to tank without taking damage, like Bahamut V2 (solo tanking, I might add) or Cerberus (triple attack gogo) or Ouryu (just plain not fun), all of which you'll take a good amount of damage no matter what you do. Things like Shadow gear have saved the tank's life in fights like that, whether NIN or PLD, and pretty often too. Too many people seem to act like Tiamat is the pinacle of tanking, 'if you can tank him you can tank anything! If you don't get hit on him you won't get hit on anything!' It couldn't be more untrue.

I wouldn't call Tiamat a baby...Short of Special TP moves, like Proto-Ultima's various one-shotters, and Bahamut's flares, NO tankable mob in the game can kill you quicker then Tiamat can with normal melee(past 20%). It's not something you can really expect and its not something that you can prepare for, short of stunning or sleeping. (How lame. ) Granted most of the time its SOO incredibly easy to bounce hate on her, and I can't count how many times she lands, doesnt hit a single person, only to fly again and shoot 30 damage fireballs, all making her seem much less then the monster we used to fight, but times have changed, strats have changed. I'd say the new CoP mobs are harder for NINs (Cerberus' near immunity to Elegy and attack speed, Bahamuts INSANE amount of AOE moves) are just more and more things to even the distance between NIN and PLD/WAR tanking or at least dampen the complete unbalancing Utsusemi has put on this games larger fights. When you have 4/6 members in tanking party able to pull hate and divvy up damage between the 4 of them, keeping TP moves and melee damage to near non-existant...you have to rework your HNMs to the point where that can't be done. I think Bahamut 2 and Cerberus have been a good step in that direction.

[RKenshin]

Just to say, I'm not trying to brag or anything in these responses, I'm just using personal examples from my experiences to justify my position on some of these topics. I realize you're doing the same too as well.

Well the question is, do you solo tank just about everything? Because usually on our fights, our BRDs, WHMs, RDMs all have EXCELLENT hate control, and we've had a dozen Tiamats without a single draw-in, death, or sleep...with very few members also. I'm not tooting my horn, just attesting to it usually involving our tanks having EQUAL hate, not tip-top hate. I've seen fights where especially on Tiamat, a tank goes too gung-ho and completely outmatches his other 2 tanks, and eats 3 melee hits from Tiamat and dies, whereas if hate was balanced, 1 hit would have been more then enough for a Flash or Cure to transfer hate. Same is true of Cerberus, Ouryu, all fights where your tanks have to be equal, so both can transfer hate to use up Aerial Armors, or to help the other tank recast.

I don't normally solo tank intentionally, the only time it's done on purpose is on Bahamut V2 and on the rare occasion Tiamat pops at a wierd time and we end up pulling with 12-18 people. More often than not we don't have backup tanks and kill things like Tiamat with 18-24 people, so I end up solo tanking mostly because of low attendence. In either case, hate is usually fine. Just a few hours ago on our last Bahamut V2 BC we won at the 30 minute mark, and I never lost hate through the entire BC. In previous BCs the only time I lost hate was to the RDM spamming Dispel, which as anyone knows who does the BC gets an ubelievable amount of hate over time. Then, just like you, our Tiamat kills are usually very smooth and without death, with Horrid Roar spam being the primary cause of any trouble.

As for balancing, normally when I'm /WAR hate is balanced pretty well with the other tank (often PLD/NIN). PLD/NIN is an insane amount of hate, and when done correctly it's often more than I can generate as a NIN/WAR even with +39 Enmity, so balance isn't usually a problem. However, when I'm NIN/DRK I absolutely dominate hate. Just last Cerberus I was told by a co-tank I must've tanked it at least 75% of the time, with her and a second tank with me. But even on him the only times I lost hate was after taking a few hits in a row, which as I mentioned is almost impossible to avoid, but the only people I lost hate to were those two tanks. So losing hate to mages/melee wasn't a problem.

The problem that I think you're talking about is when someone solo tanks they take alllll the damage. On something like Tiamat you could have perfect Utsesumi tanking, but you'll still take 2-3k per flight, and lose a huge amount of hate from it. No matter how much Enmity you have, if you're taking a lot of damage and you're the only tank, hate will be very lose (this is as a NIN btw, not as a PLD, although it's probably true for both if the PLD doesn't cure him/herself). This is the best feature about the fire resist build I use, and I've noticed that since taking 15-30 damage almost every time in the air my hate has been a significant amount more solid. So yeah, even solo tanking, if you can almost totally avoid taking damage hate will still be pretty solid.

I wouldn't call Tiamat a baby...Short of Special TP moves, like Proto-Ultima's various one-shotters, and Bahamut's flares, NO tankable mob in the game can kill you quicker then Tiamat can with normal melee(past 20%). It's not something you can really expect and its not something that you can prepare for, short of stunning or sleeping. (How lame. ) Granted most of the time its SOO incredibly easy to bounce hate on her, and I can't count how many times she lands, doesnt hit a single person, only to fly again and shoot 30 damage fireballs, all making her seem much less then the monster we used to fight, but times have changed, strats have changed. I'd say the new CoP mobs are harder for NINs (Cerberus' near immunity to Elegy and attack speed, Bahamuts INSANE amount of AOE moves) are just more and more things to even the distance between NIN and PLD/WAR tanking or at least dampen the complete unbalancing Utsusemi has put on this games larger fights. When you have 4/6 members in tanking party able to pull hate and divvy up damage between the 4 of them, keeping TP moves and melee damage to near non-existant...you have to rework your HNMs to the point where that can't be done. I think Bahamut 2 and Cerberus have been a good step in that direction.

Personally I think in comparison to the other mobs in the game, with the correct support Tiamat is on the easier side to tank. For 80% of the fight he's almost no threat whatsoever, which is over a majority of the fight. Below 20% I agree he gets extremely dangerous, but as people mentioned before with the correct Stun support it's not a huge worry, which is what makes him so much easier IMO. Unlike Nidhogg or Bahamut or Ouryu, if you're ever in danger of taking damage, a few well-timed Stuns will allow you to recover. You could be horrible at Utsesumi tanking, and with the right Stuns at the right time you can still tank Tiamat below 20% without dieing.

This is a HUGE advantage, where as a mess-up on other HNMs will often result in Cure bombs as you struggle to get shadows back up. This is also why I believe he's on the easy side of mobs to tank. But I do agree, Tiamat can probably kill you faster than any other mob in the game with melee damage alone. But in my post as I said I'm just sort of tired of people referring to Tiamat as it's like the pinacle of tanking, where being able to tank him means you can tank anything. I just don't find that to be true in the least bit.

This is all just how we've done things though, I understand different linkshells have different strategies for tanking and taking down wyrms and I'm pretty sure your LS uses much different strats than we do. But hey, whichever makes the mob dead works fine.

[Garret]

Its ok Valefor had a SMN main lot and win it, I think he is leveling PLD though. Anyways the moral of the story is to only do LS Dynmais. I mean its not like its hard.

Honestly why does this always come up as though it's some crime?

because it's fucking hilarious that one of the best tank mantles in the game is rotting in some retard's MH Storage instead of being made use of by a tank (without whom there would be no mantle) because he had to be a loot whore

Sorry but in an open Dynamis shell if you're following the rules then how is it loot whoring? Last I checked on a note that shouldn't even matter his Pld is actually 70+ and the truth is someone could easily get Pld & Nin to 75 before they ever come close to winning a Shadow Mantle.

You say it like an open Dynamis LS doesn't even work, what do you care what type of rules an LS uses? Why is it any of your business? A similar open shell on the same server has cleared Xarc around 6/8 times now, in addition to new zones, and farms them all efficiently, but apparently because of how an entire LS chooses to do its rules it makes it a waste? Sorry but that's ridiculous. In my own Dynamis LS the reason Shadow items are free lot is entirely because it is a compilation of people from varied LS, and it's unfair to expect people to treat it like an HNM LS where people are expected to sacrifice their time and XP at times to equip others ahead of themselves. Everyone puts in their effort and everyone is entitled to hope for a payoff from it.

[Priran]

Its ok Valefor had a SMN main lot and win it, I think he is leveling PLD though. Anyways the moral of the story is to only do LS Dynmais. I mean its not like its hard.

Honestly why does this always come up as though it's some crime?

because it's fucking hilarious that one of the best tank mantles in the game is rotting in some retard's MH Storage instead of being made use of by a tank (without whom there would be no mantle) because he had to be a loot whore

Sorry but in an open Dynamis shell if you're following the rules then how is it loot whoring? Last I checked on a note that shouldn't even matter his Pld is actually 70+ and the truth is someone could easily get Pld & Nin to 75 before they ever come close to winning a Shadow Mantle.

blahblahblah semantics

hey guess what? just because he can doesn't mean he should. A SMN is about the fucking worst job imaginable for a Shadow Mantle. He didn't even have PLD unlocked at the time he lotted it, he was being a loot whore.

What happened is that he saw rare item, thought, "fuck, if I had that I'd look fucking uber in jeuno" and lotted. Last I checked there's an open lot rule in that shell on AF no one wants and on synth items but most people don't lot on it just cause it's the fucking rules.

I'm sure all the PLDs and NINs from that run are fucking bouncing off the walls at the prospect of losing a rare equip like that, so maybe you can feed them your LS PR shit as a bedtime story.

[Magicker]

I'm sure all the PLDs and NINs from that run are fucking bouncing off the walls at the prospect of losing a rare equip like that, so maybe you can feed them your LS PR shit as a bedtime story.

Will you please just let it go? I'm not in his LS. I was in the dynamis where he won the mantle. I was at the time 75pld, and am now 75pld 75war 75nin, and I don't friggin care. He was completely within the rules of the run, and while yeah I really wish I won the lot, I didn't.

It doesn't even affect you, why are you so angry about it?

[Tarumara]

Best part is: His LS doesn't care that he did it. Way to suckiesuckieYuufuu Chronce (b^^)b

[Julian]

NECROBUMP

Chronce's account was hacked, someone deleted his character. If stuff was dropped or not is yet to be known.

[aurik]

8)

[Aladwar]

rofl

And yeah, Yuufuu sucks. He pulled his members out of PocketAces so he could do LS onry dynamis. Keep in mind, he stole Xarcabard from another LS while he claimed to be camping Biast D: (it's on KI).

[Krandor]

hahahahahahah

[Dirian]

Wait this topic was about chronce? I thought it was about tanking wyrms.