Pretty much all you ever need to know about Scientology

[Kaylia]

So many of the info in the christian religion can be disproven time and time again.. yet people still believe in it, that has always bugged me.

That's not what a religion is about. No one should cares if Jesus ate bread or nachos before he died, or if he was married or not with Mary Magdalene. A religions is a premade set of beliefs that will normally help you in your life, and seriously, it's not really different than anyone beliefs.

Compare what christian believes in now to the chart of right, and tell me what's so wrong about that religion.

[mrfridays]

"No good has ever come from any form of organized religion."

Well I'm a 20 year old christian, I attend a campus christian club and go to church, I happen to love the people at church and find them to be some of the most honest people I've ever met. I don't tell people they're going to hell, i don't kill people, I don't try to change other people, I'm happy with the way I am and enjoy living a christian life. Back home in Minnesota I'm the only christian in my group but we all still get along great.

So wait, No good has ever come from any form of organized religion? What about me? The original statement is such an irrational blanket-statement you obviously have a strong bias against religion, so why read on? I think that's what Kaylia is saying.

I'm not gonna read a paper that starts off:
"I think non-christians are going to hell and they're all terrible people."

Did you even bother to read AND comprehend what I wrote? Here, let me quote the relavent part for you:

No good has ever come from any form of organized religion. People who blindly follow organized religion, although often times quite misguided, do accomplish good things on their own, but please don't confuse that with the organization itself accomplishing any good though. People that truly believe in God for the most part want to do good, and their are plenty of people throughout time that have been ready and willing to take advantage of that.

The underlying meaning and the point that I was trying to make, is that the organization itself (ie: the powers that govern said organizations) are the people I take issue with.

As I stated before, I honestly believe that the people who choose to believe in "Religion X" are for the most part good people (extremists aside, of course). The regular everyday Joe's and Jane's that follow the organization I have no problems with. The individuals that exploit those people's faith in a higher being for their own personal gain are the ones that really grind my gears.

You can't deny that certain (most) Religious leaders have been taking advantage of their "fan base", in one way or another, for thousands of years. THAT is what I take issue with.

Personally, I don't care what anyone choses to believe. You can pray to Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Shiva, The Green Ranger, or a giant pink rabbit named Guadalupe O'Mailey... its all good. Far be it from me to deny someone the right to have different beliefs than me. I would never bash or physically attack someone for their beliefs... I leave that up to the heads of the various organized religions around the world. They are much better at that sort of thing than I could ever hope to be.

[Kaylia]

As I stated before, I honestly believe that the people who choose to believe in "Religion X" are for the most part good people (extremists aside, of course). The regular everyday Joe's and Jane's that follow the organization I have no problems with. The individuals that exploit people's faith in a higher being for their own personal gain are the ones that really grind my gears

And you think this is something specific to religion? There is people abusing someone else's trust everywhere. (religion, politics, business..etc). However, none of those things exist simply to trick people or gain an advantage from them

You can't deny that certain (most) Religious leaders have been taking advantage of their "fan base", in one way or another, for thousands of years. THAT is what I take issue with.

Sect yes, not big organised religion. Don't come here to tell me the pope is doing this only for money and take advantage of people.

I would never bash or physically attack someone for their beliefs... I leave that up to the heads of the various organized religions around the world. They are much better at that sort of thing than I could ever hope to be.

You just did by directly/indirectly saying they are all manipulated, implying they are weak minded.
Beside, you see way more atheist/non believer bash religion than you see religious people bash each other.

[Ksandra]

My biggest problem mr.friday's with your arguement is not the context but the way you word it is contradictory.

On one hand you say "nothing good can come from organized religion." nothing= absolute.

But you then say that people who follow these religions are doing good deeds through believing in that religion.

Would it not make sense then that the good that comes from organized religions is that it helps create and guide people to do said good things?


I am not trying to make you believe or disbelieve religions in any ways, but you're statements don't seem to be making any sense, and becuase of your contradiction it makes you not seem to understand what you believe at all.

[Shaede]

Okay, I'll throw some of my views into the mix in response to the statements made previously on organised religion:

1) To effect a measure of control of a society or group of like minded people. If people were to come to the realization that there is no afterlife, and that once you have died there are no consequences for your actions while living, there would be mass depression and chaos. It gives the people a reason to follow a moral code in the hopes of being rewarded with "eternal life" or "X virgins" when they die, if they follow the word of God (which is really the word of the founding members of the cult....err, I mean Religion).

Let me break this up into parts:
1) Claim that religion serves the primary purpose of control over others.
2) Claim that atheism would lead to depression and chaos.
3) Claim that religion serves merely as a reward for good behavior in life.

In your first claim, you say that religion serves to exact control. The same could be said for any social group, honestly. There are social groups everywhere, the largest ones being government, family, and religion. Though it's true that all three of these groups exert a degree of control upon its members, I'd argue that that is not the primary purpose of the group, but merely a single aspect. By disregarding religion as merely a means of control, to retain a degree of consistancy in one's beliefs, would that not also place government and family at the same level of disdain? Though it's true that conformity to any group can have negative consequences, our society would fall apart without some form of conformity or control.

Your second claim is basically that atheists are depressed and chaotic. I can neither prove or disprove that, but I'm sure there's many atheists on the internet that could tell you how they feel about it.

Your third claim, is quite frankly, off base. I'm sure there are those that this statement may ring true to, but it certainly is not the magority. Maybe you only refer to the Judeo-Christian faith, but even then it's a stretch. In short, though some may view their personal beliefs in this way, that is certainly not the mentality of most organised religions.

2) To take advantage of the gullible public by using their generous donations to maintain their status as the largest land owners on Earth.

This may have been true once, but it's not really an issue anymore (unless you can name some examples). It would seem, ironically, that those with the most power and influence on Earth in modern times reflect the abandonment of religion that you see in the more urban areas of the world. If by land owners you mean farmers in rural areas, then I might have to agree with you, though. Throughout most of history in the United States, at least, the religious centers typically center in lower income areas, clustering mostly in the rural areas in the south. If you were to take advantage of people, would it not be the rich and famous instead (such as Scientology has done)?

3) As an excuse to rally people to a cause worth fighting for. Nothing gets people motivated for a good old fashioned war like "God and his divine providence command us to kill some brown people".

Well, religion is one outlet for this, but there are many others. This is essentially the same as nationalism or racism. The original civil war era KKK, for example, prosecuted only blacks, where as the recreation of the KKK in the 20's prosecuted blacks, all foreigners, Jews, Catholics, and pretty much anyone who wasn't a WASP. In one instance it was entirely a matter of race, but later on religion was thrown in for good measure. Anything could have taken the place of religion, so long as it was something that distinguished people apart from each other.

Again, I understand the general distaste for organised religion. There's been a lot of corruption and evil rampant throughout its many ranks. But this corruption spawns in every corner of humanity from politics to personal relationships. Thus I don't believe that organised religion, in itself, is at fault any more than I believe the concept of organised government is terrible based only on the Bush administration.

[Kaylia]

My biggest problem mr.friday's with your arguement is not the context but the way you word it is contradictory.

On one hand you say "nothing good can come from organized religion." nothing= absolute.

But you then say that people who follow these religions are doing good deeds through believing in that religion.

Would it not make sense then that the good that comes from organized religions is that it helps create and guide people to do said good things?


I am not trying to make you believe or disbelieve religions in any ways, but you're statements don't seem to be making any sense, and becuase of your contradiction it makes you not seem to understand what you believe at all.

Yep, it's exactly why I bashed his ability to rationalize in my first post. He brush off anything good they could make saying it was the "person", but when it come down to something potentially bad, it's the religion fault.

[Ksandra]

Again, I understand the general distaste for organised religion. There's been a lot of corruption and evil rampant throughout its many ranks. But this corruption spawns in every corner of humanity from politics to personal relationships. Thus I don't believe that organised religion, in itself, is at fault any more than I believe the concept of organised government is terrible based only on the Bush administration.

Best stament in this thread so far.

[Hilander]

Just because you say religion is not about what others say...doesn't mean there aren't people who think religion should be this and this. The meaning of religion is different for everyone and used for different means. sort of like everything in this damn world.

Good and bad can come out of everything. People thinking religion is bad is the same as people thinking that playing MMORPGs is bad.

This is such a dumb arguement because nothing good or productive can come from it. Everything is too relative. There are too many sides to every arguement.

Peace

[Krylanna]

Good and bad can come out of everything. People thinking religion is bad is the same as people thinking that playing MMORPGs is bad.

But playing MMORPGs IS bad. There is a special circle in Hell reserved for the likes of us.

[Koyangi]

Just because you say religion is not about what others say...doesn't mean there aren't people who think religion should be this and this. The meaning of religion is different for everyone and used for different means. sort of like everything in this damn world.

Good and bad can come out of everything. People thinking religion is bad is the same as people thinking that playing MMORPGs is bad.

This is such a dumb arguement because nothing good or productive can come from it. Everything is too relative. There are too many sides to every arguement.

Peace

win

[Ksandra]

Good and bad can come out of everything. People thinking religion is bad is the same as people thinking that playing MMORPGs is bad.

But playing MMORPGs IS bad. There is a special circle in Hell reserved for the likes of us.

The one reserved for child molestors and those that talk at the theater?

>.>; it's a TV show quote


And ya I agree that people are going to argue this point until the end of existence (if that ever happens). I do say though that scientology seems to have a lot harsher means on their religious ideas than most (not all) modern-day religions. @@;

The money system they use is rather suspicious as well.

[mrfridays]

Good and bad can come out of everything. People thinking religion is bad is the same as people thinking that playing MMORPGs is bad.

But playing MMORPGs IS bad. There is a special circle in Hell reserved for the likes of us.

"... a very special level of Hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater"

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

http://www.xenu.net/

All you need to know

The scientology article from rolling stone is good as well.

[Ksandra]

My mouse clicking is faster than you mr.fridays it would seem

[mrfridays]

My mouse clicking is faster than you mr.fridays it would seem

One of the disadvantages of trying to post from work. I open a post window, and get distracted by pesky "real work". Once I get back and hit post, I am too late.

[edgarfigaro]

after reading up on scientology...it just seems like the world's biggest and most successful MMORPG. I mean, the grinding, the monthly payments, the striving to get to the next level...it's all there.

What does that say about all of us >.>

[Ashen]

People who need to be spoon fed faith through organized religion are douches.

Find your own damn personal faith and stop following other people or else you may end up like this bitch:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rading+spouses

By the way, if someone could do me the favor of buying me plane tickets to that woman's house so I can personally break a crucifix across her fucking face dressed up like Jesus yelling "Warrior this, bitch", I'd really appreciate it. You want to see a "dark side?" Look at the back of her when she's facing the light. That's the biggest dark side you'll ever see.

[Shaede]

Ashen, there are crazen fools like this in any religion and just as many not a part of any religion. The truth is, as you've said, lots of people life their life as sheep. Much of the time when I see someone state their unique and individual beliefs on the internet, they're actually quite common and somewhat shallow (as though mot much effort was placed into them). These people, like almost any sane person, chose a way to live from a list of available options rather than travelling the long and painful journey of creating one's own belief system from scratch (that would likely be viewed as alien and unacceptable or uncool to the magority of others).

[Demetrick]

http://whmi.ytmnd.com/

[Jotaru]

Yeah, that's seirously just sad, that some person has been so totally brainwashed by what they've read and heard and believed... On the other hand, however, each person is entitled their own beliefs, are they not? Who is this lady to say anything about anybody else's beliefs / religion / whatnot? I'm not a religious person... But if some devout christian walks by, and they're a cool person, and they don't shove their beliefs in my face... No problem encountered. I'm an apathetic guy, and if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of people like this, that's ok by me; this will cause issues in the life of a person like the lady shown before, but I'm sure as hell going to enjoy my life and hope the same for other people. Much easier to just enjoy life, believe in what YOU believe in, don't press yourself upon other people, and don't let them do the same to you... I seriously don't know how anyone can allow anything different.