Alternate Dynamis - Valkurm strategies

[divisortheory]

Someone brought up an interesting thought today.

Namely, the questions being
- Can Fairy Ring, Nan'tina, and Sctemqestcint be killed with 12 people each?
- If not, how about 18?

Here's the map I have, and while it doesn't show all the statues blocking the NMs, it's fairly accurate with regards to actual NM locations and flies.

http://www.k2.dion.ne.jp/~ffxi/ff_valkurm_01.jpg

A couple of things make me more inclined to give thought to these questions:

1) The 3 Nightmare Flies are positioned almost eerily "on the way" to the above 3 NMs.
2) There are no serious obstacles such as huge groups of statues that would prevent a group of 12 from reaching the NMs. Only the strength of the NMs themselves would be called into question.
3) Experience has shown that groups are more efficient in small numbers, even though they obviously put out less damage per second.

I had a couple of ideas when pondering over this question about if it's possible to do the NMs with 12 people each. For starters, everyone always puts a BRD in the tank party. While this is nice for giving Ballad to a PLD (cue cliched and jokealreadyslain People still use Paladins? response), and Haste for a NIN, these BRDs could be used in melee parties as well, almost doubling their damage output. If you want NINs tanking, put them in a melee party and they can still get haste. If PLD is your main tank, they don't need Ballad in Dynamis - Valkurm because fights are extremely spread out, and when fights do happen they are fairly short.

So, I think if this is doable, I think it would require a revamp of the traditional dynamis party configurations. In particular, parties should be modelled more after how melee burn parties are organized, a lot of focus should be given to buffing the melees, and there should not be the notion of a "tank party" at all. If PLD is tanking he can be in a melee PT and doesn't need Ballad since Sub Boss fights will be short, if NIN is tanking he can be in a melee PT and get Minuet/March just like all the other melees. So I think something like

Typical Melee Party
Melee
Melee
Melee
Melee
WHM, RDM, or SMN
BRD

Black mage Party
Black Mage
Black Mage
Black Mage
Black Mage
Black Mage
Black Mage

for Fairy Ring, and 2 "Traditional Melee Party" configurations for the other 2 NMs. The strategy, then, would be to immediately split up into 3 strike teams upon entrance, each team kill 1 Nightmare Fly, then proceed to the corresponding NM that you are already "on the way" to. Kill those, gather together back at the Mega Boss, and kill it.



Thoughts? I think it's kind of lame that people are still using the same strategy that was discovered about a week after Dynamis - Valkurm was even introduced into the game, and since then nobody has given an ounce of thought to making it more efficient.

[Koyangi]

Fairy Ring has a nasty spore move ignores defense and invincible; cone shaped, the pld wont survive long enough, no matter how buff those other DD's are in a setup of 12, let alone the DD's pull hate, they could get wiped pretty easily. Nan'tina could be done with 12 imo.

[Ruffles]

I think it would be possible to kill 2 of the 3 NMs with 12-18ppl but Fairy Ring is a bitch! maybe you could split into 2 alliances going after the other 2 NMs first and then gathering together to take out Fairy Ring?

[divisortheory]

You'd want a NIN with full HP gear tanking Fairy Ring anyway, that's a given. So just assume that for Fairy Ring your tank is a NIN getting March/Minuet and who has his own Antidotes to combat the 50HP/tic poison. But you don't think 4 buff melees (1 of which is a NIN tank) with a WHM cure spamming the NIN and 6 BLMs could kill Fairy Ring fast enough? It would rarely use the spore move since it wouldn't be getting much TP. Assuming for the sake of argument everyone was completely invincible and couldn't be damaged, how long would it take to bring down Fairy Ring with that setup with nobody using 2 hours? If it's less than 2 minutes, I definitely think it's possible to kill him with 12.

[Not Kuno]

You'd want a NIN with full HP gear tanking Fairy Ring anyway, that's a given. So just assume that for Fairy Ring your tank is a NIN getting March/Minuet. But you don't think 4 buff melees (1 of which is a NIN tank) with a WHM cure spamming the NIN and 6 BLMs could kill Fairy Ring fast enough? It would rarely use the spore move since it wouldn't be getting much TP. Assuming for the sake of argument everyone was completely invincible and couldn't be damaged, how long would it take to bring down Fairy Ring with that setup with nobody using 2 hours? If it's less than 2 minutes, I definitely think it's possible to kill him with 12.

I think it just spams WS regardless of TP.

[divisortheory]

Possible, but with 25 people banging on it, it's bound to seem like that no matter what. When I fought Fairy Ring with 36 people, it only used the spore move once.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Just wondering, what does killing Sctemqestcint do?

[divisortheory]

Good question, I actually have no clue what killing Sctemqestcint or Dragontrap does. Obviously it removes some ability from CC just like the other 2 NMs, but what ability I don't know.

[Septimus]

Just wondering, what does killing Sctemqestcint do?

Based off of the other NMs, not a damn thing.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

From what I heard dragontrap being killed removes the nightmare morbols. I've never killed it.

Just wondering, what does killing Sctemqestcint do?

Based off of the other NMs, not a damn thing.

Other NMs weaken, not remove moves.

[divisortheory]

Found this:

Attacks
Fragrant Breath (AoE Charm) - removed by defeating Nant'ina
Miasmic Breath (AoE Poison and Heavy Damage) - removed by defeating Fairy Ring
Putrid Breath (AoE Mild Damage) - removed by defeating Dragontrap
Vampiric Lash (TP and/or MP Drain) - removed by defeating Stcemqestcint

Attributes
Nightmare Morbols - removed by defeating Dragontrap
Movement speed - removed by defeating Fairy Ring
??? - removed by defeating Stcemqestcint
??? - removed by defeating Nant'ina

[Epincus]

You'd want a NIN with full HP gear tanking Fairy Ring anyway, that's a given. So just assume that for Fairy Ring your tank is a NIN getting March/Minuet. But you don't think 4 buff melees (1 of which is a NIN tank) with a WHM cure spamming the NIN and 6 BLMs could kill Fairy Ring fast enough? It would rarely use the spore move since it wouldn't be getting much TP. Assuming for the sake of argument everyone was completely invincible and couldn't be damaged, how long would it take to bring down Fairy Ring with that setup with nobody using 2 hours? If it's less than 2 minutes, I definitely think it's possible to kill him with 12.

I think it just spams WS regardless of TP.

Having tanked Fairy Ring, I can verify it spams WS regardless of TP. Dark Spore did around 1200-1400dmg to me per hit.

[Jeryhn]

It might be possible that killing the Treant NM removes Cirrate's Kirin-like WS spam.

[Priran]

Possible, but with 25 people banging on it, it's bound to seem like that no matter what. When I fought Fairy Ring with 36 people, it only used the spore move once.

Fairy Ring doesn't use melee attacks afaik. It just uses that Spore thing.

[divisortheory]

Is that the move that hits for like 1005 every time? And is that the same move that inflicts 50HP/tic poison? Guess I'm getting confused about something -.-

[Kaylia]

I can't really comment here since I never fought that NM. But how dmg a black mage can deal in one nuke?


I was wondering if something like 10 nuke --> shadowbind --> 10 nuke --> shadowbind -->10 last nuke could work on this NM.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Possible, but with 25 people banging on it, it's bound to seem like that no matter what. When I fought Fairy Ring with 36 people, it only used the spore move once.

Fairy Ring doesn't use melee attacks afaik. It just uses that Spore thing.

His normal hits are like 980 damage... he most definately does normal attacks.

[Jeryhn]

I can't really comment here since I never fought that NM. But how dmg a black mage can deal in one nuke?


I was wondering if something like 10 nuke --> shadowbind --> 10 nuke --> shadowbind -->10 last nuke could work on this NM.

I think if you are in range to cast a spell, Fairy Ring is in range to spam his breath attack.

Better just to hold it facing a certain direction away from mages/melee and nuke/zerg it down.

[divisortheory]

Is it stunnable? Maybe you could save 1 Chainspell Stun for Fairy Ring, leaving the rest for CC.

[Koyangi]

Is it stunnable? Maybe you could save 1 Chainspell Stun for Fairy Ring, leaving the rest for CC.

My LS CS Stuns it, so yes.