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  1. #21
    Relic Weapons
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    When you too far away stuff doesnt produce any real hate - if at all? Like RDMs running far to convert.
    RDM's run far away to convert so they don't get one shotted by a badly timed AoE while at low HP.


    The more you know...

  2. #22
    I Am, Who I Am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brennon
    When you too far away stuff doesnt produce any real hate - if at all? Like RDMs running far to convert.
    RDM's run far away to convert so they don't get one shotted by a badly timed AoE while at low HP.
    They run away from AoE? Last I checked SS and Blink work wonders while trying to convert. When I sub WHM, I have a macro that uses divine seal, then convert then cure4, if anything id ran farther away so I wouldnt get hate from all that HP cured.


    On BST you really do get a feel for control, and I do feel like the different ranges will determine different amounts of hate.

    edit:sp

  3. #23
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    I run out of range to convert for a hate free convert, nothing to do with AOE's, that's what stoneskin is for.

    I learned alot from BST about pet hate ranges. I might still have hate from the mob, converting next to the mob will create new hate, converting away from the mob means you still have the same hate as you did before, except the new action you did out of range will and can not be counted towards your enmity with the mob.

    There is a range where your actions produce 0 hate, but if you did something to the mob to piss it off prior, it's coming back for you later. The reason you dont notice it on xp mobs is because they're only alive for a limited amount of time.

  4. #24

    ^ totally agree.

    I move out of range (when I can, it's not always possible) for both reasons. Been hit by enough AoE's to know that they are gonna go off at the most inconvient times. I also figured if I was far enough away when /whm, maybe the mob wouldn't notice my DS+Cure IV, although I've never verified it, it's worked so far.

  5. #25
    Sea Torques
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    If everyone on the server leveled BST the stupid people would either quit or get smarter.. either way = win


    And RDM run away to convert so they don't get hate from self curing. It has nothing to do with AOEs.

    Any action with in hate range = hate doesnt matter if you are on the mob or 10 feet away.. it's the same hate.

    If you cant see the damage in the chat log you clear to do whatever you want. Invincible / DS Cure IV yourself.. doesnt matter you wont get any hate if you are outside hate range.

  6. #26

    FFXIclopedia is blocked at work, but the Distance page they have there is pretty convenient.

    I'm pretty sure that the Distance for hate is 25 feet. Meaning if you self-cure or anything 25 feet from the mob, it generates no hate.

    This is why when soloing on SMN, you want to make sure you re-summon the Avatar before the mob is within range, otherwise you get smacked in the face. Same applies for BST I imagine.

    I'm not too sure about anything other than that. There are definately times where somebody else is kiting a mob, and then it takes a swing at me while running by.

  7. #27
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    Differance with BST is, the new pet wont go after the mob. Lucky SMN get to just recast from a mile away and it will go after the previous target, BST have to go up to the mob and recast Fight (and its a small distance). If you dont position yourself right, youll get hit, if the new pet doesnt hit the target to draw hate, youll get hit too, and thus bringing the BST to the ever funny running around in cicles around an object till hate is diminished >.>

  8. #28
    Sea Torques
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    only job that has increased hate the farther you are from the mob is rng 8)







    jk rng cant pull hate D:

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devek
    Regarding Provoke.. we have known for a long time that any hate you had from provoke is practically gone by the next time your provoke comes back up. If you rely on Provoke for hate you are going to fail pretty hard
    I don't think this is true -- or rather, not the whole truth about provoke. I think it either decays faster with distance or just looses potency.

    One time in dynamis I decided to see how much agro I could build with voke. I was "kiting" one of the NMs after a sac pull -- the DRK, I think -- but since it was a slow hitter, I just stood and blink tanked it instead. I stuck hojo & blind on it, and then just stood there provoking it every 30s. Raid came to kill it last -- so I was about 4-5 vokes ahead on it.

    PLD could not pull it off me. I was so used to PLD walking over and just pulling things off me at will that I kinda stopped paying attention when he voked. It stuck to me, lost blinks, got wallopped. PLD heals me (over and over as I wake up and try to reblink). Couldn't pull it off me.

    OTH, I've voked things many times while kiting (including sticking hojo/kurayami) and had it peal off to attack a sitting taru if I get a little bit too far away or hop over to another kiter if they voke it just once.

    Sooo, I think either distance decays provoke agro faster than it decays damage agro or provoke is just "soft" agro and gets tossed out of the "who do I hate most?" algorythm when distance is a factor -- hence the mad rush at wierd times to suddenly kill a damager even further away than the voker that really didn't even do that much or that recently.

  10. #30
    Relic Shield
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    Gonna have to agree with that. We all know the hate from 'voke basically disappears after 30 seconds, but say you test by pulling a mob with it.

    If you run way out of range of the mob, to where the model disappears, you'll lose hate and it'll depop before those 30 seconds are up. If you stay within sight range of the mob, or hell, take a few whacks, you'll still have hate on it.

    Maybe when hate diminishes to zero, the mob needs to forget you exist before it'll go unclaimed and depop (ie before hate actually becomes zero), and that'll only happen if you're outside of enmity range. I definitely notice spike hate decaying a lot faster when kiting, though, so there's a good chance distance from the mob is at least a partial factor.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadLegend
    I would say pure real damage dealt seems to determine hate more than anything else, for example hitting the monster for 400 damage seems to create more than curing yourself/someone for 400, but I could just be imagining things.
    I would say that it's based on a percentile of damage. Not including degredation of hate, If you hit a La'Thiene Rabbit for 90% of it's health, even if it's only 50-60 damage, Voke, Flash, and Sentinal won't turn it.

    It would be interesting to find a formula for "voke is worth hitting the mob for xxx % of it's health" or to get some solid numbers.

  12. #32

    Quote Originally Posted by Okuza
    [
    One time in dynamis I decided to see how much agro I could build with voke. I was "kiting" one of the NMs after a sac pull -- the DRK, I think -- but since it was a slow hitter, I just stood and blink tanked it instead. I stuck hojo & blind on it, and then just stood there provoking it every 30s. Raid came to kill it last -- so I was about 4-5 vokes ahead on it.
    Pretty much any spell or ability gets you hate though.

    How many times did you cast Utsusemi while blink tanking it? While exping you don't notice the hate gain from casting Utsusemi.. but when you're wearing a crapload of +enmity gear and have merits the hate gain from Utsusemi outweights the hate loss from the mob hitting your blinks.

  13. #33

    Quote Originally Posted by cassiraa
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadLegend
    I would say pure real damage dealt seems to determine hate more than anything else, for example hitting the monster for 400 damage seems to create more than curing yourself/someone for 400, but I could just be imagining things.
    I would say that it's based on a percentile of damage. Not including degredation of hate, If you hit a La'Thiene Rabbit for 90% of it's health, even if it's only 50-60 damage, Voke, Flash, and Sentinal won't turn it.

    It would be interesting to find a formula for "voke is worth hitting the mob for xxx % of it's health" or to get some solid numbers.
    I'm also certain that also works in reverse. A tank with 2000+ hp getting hit for 200 damage seems to loose less enmity than a tank with 1000 hp getting hit for 200 damage.

    I've been bored and leveling black mage on my tarutaru mule..

    I'll overnuke and get hit for like half my health... With good timing I learned from playing ninja combined a prayer that my capped enhancing skill and shock spikes stuns the mob and capped dark I usually drain almost all the HP back.

    The mob usually hits me again taking half my health off. Some people might be scared at this point.. but I usually rip off another nuke and because I lost so much hate loosing almost all of my health the next nuke doesn't get me hate. ES+Thundaga seals the deal and kills the mob.

    Tarutaru blm just practically solo'd chain #5

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devek
    How many times did you cast Utsusemi while blink tanking it? While exping you don't notice the hate gain from casting Utsusemi.. but when you're wearing a crapload of +enmity gear and have merits the hate gain from Utsusemi outweights the hate loss from the mob hitting your blinks.
    It's true that utsu generates hate -- I've had things turn back to me just from utsu during XP -- but utsu also looses hate with each hit. At best, I think the earned/lost is a wash. When I blink tank things without provoke, the PLD can just grab it with a single flash. The provokes were the only difference from what I usually do on that NM. Utsu agro is pretty tiny even cumulatative with enmity. Pretty sure it was proximity + provoke that glued it to me.

    I think distance and hard damage are what reduces whatever lead provoke might give you. Perhaps time does, too, but I think distance and damage far outweigh time for negating provoke agro.

  15. #35
    Sea Torques
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    Hate from JAs, Enfeebles/ Buffs or even from eating food/meds in my experience has a much faster decay rate than for damage/curing.

    When I'm on BLM no matter even on a long fight even if i rested for a while and done no Damage for quite a long time the moment the tank dies the mob is gonna come and bite me in the ass. whilst the RDM who has been spamming Enfeebles/buffs constantly doesn't even get looked at... untill the blms die lol

  16. #36
    Relic Horn
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    Also actions to sleep monsters feel like they are around 25% of normal hate - any experiences?

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