Distance to Enemy and Emnity

[Lyramion]

How does distance to an enemy matter? I never read any topic about this before.


When you too far away stuff doesnt produce any real hate - if at all? Like RDMs running far to convert.

But do the closer distances also matter? Sometimes when I provoke an incoming enemy too early my provoke seems to draw very few hate. Or is it just my imagination?


Maybe you can abuse this in fights... like back in the day when I leveled DRK sub in Garlaige I always ran away to activate Last Resort not to die.

Or tell mages to stand at max possible distance (in fights where it makes sense) to produce less hate?



Any experiences?

[Severance]

I'm pretty sure RDM run away to avoid AoE.

[Xfaustx]

if people get too close to me and bump into me i usually hit them.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

From my experience its all or nothing. Either you're in range for hate gain or out of it.

[Krandor]

From my understand being out of a mobs casting range will cause your enmity to start dropping.

A long time ago a BST friend of mine told me that if you can't see that chatlog info for the mob in question, any actions you make will not generate any hate from the monster.

[Gafgarionn]

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[DeadLegend]

A long time ago a BST friend of mine told me that if you can't see that chatlog info for the mob in question, any actions you make will not generate any hate from the monster.

This is what I go by when I convert/DS+Cure4 on rdm, and for kiting on pld.

[Severance]

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8)

[Sheeny]

A long time ago a BST friend of mine told me that if you can't see that chatlog info for the mob in question, any actions you make will not generate any hate from the monster.

Exactly. Hate rides a very fine line early on for BST soloing. Trying to Stay your pet so the 1%-health-left mob kills it can easily get you hate and ruin your plan.
Running out of battle message range to use commands causes no hate and is a staple to pre-release BST tactics.
Otherwise, within message range distance makes no difference where you are.

[Belkin]

I've ALWAYS noticed a difference in range and enmity. Especially when kiting mobs like Gration and Kirin. If you run way out of range and out of the mobs line of view, you lose massive amounts of enmity.

I've done countless Gration's and Kirin's too by the way, its not just something I noticed one run. I notice it everytime I do kited mobs. If you run out of view of the mob, you will lose a good deal of enmity very quickly.

[Bagel]

This is another reason why everyone should level BST at least some 8)

[Ashira]

It's the same sort of deal when Carby soloing mobs on SMN, basically; SMN have it easiest because one can go by when the avatar HP bar disappears, though fight log drops before then. Of course, you want to be further out of range so you can get avatar back up before mob comes into enmity range so you're not still summoning when within range.

There is something to it, though sometimes it's not always convenient to run that far out of range for Convert. I've actually been in a PT when a RDM ran off to Convert and someone died because she was out of range to cure them. >.>

[Jer]

Depends on the action and distance. Like your range from the mob doesn't matter if you're doing something *to* the mob. However, if you're doing something to yourself or somebody else, you can indeed be too far away for it to matter, I thought this was common knowledge? RDMs (well, some) run farther away when using Convert for two reasons: 1) It's a hell of a lot better than getting hit with an -aga of some kind 2) You don't pull the mob on you after you hit yourself with a couple big cures. There's no gradual decay range where actions generate different amounts of emnity, you are either making it or not.

[Okuza]

Tagging with provoke in dynamis is the weirdest agro-range example I know. A couple times I've seen a THF shoot the target and crit. The tagger runs up and vokes. The thing follows the voker for a little bit. Then pathing kicks in and voker gets a little more distance. Suddenly the critter turns around and is chasing the THF again. Voker stops and runs back. It's back to chasing the voker.

Odd things to consider here: the THF's crit is only like 60 damage total (+ acid debuf) -- that's a lot less than provoke. The THF is MUCH further away than the voker when it turns to the THF.

When it comes to determining which of several agro sources a critter might turn and choose to attack, distance is obviously a factor. I don't think it's linear, though. I think it's a single if/then test on distance. I also think agro isn't just lumped all together as a single "I'm mad at you variable". I think it considers several types: you hurt me, you cast a (non-dmg) spell on me, you healed someone I don't like. I'd put provoke in the spell category.

If it was a single lump-agro thing per player, the behavior would be a little less weird.

--

Outside dynamis I've not seen anything that would indicate agro isn't a single lump sum of anger, but then outside dynamis, I'm not doing anything but normal activities: tank/s try to get/keep agro, non-tank/s try to not-get agro or loose it. If someone pulls it off a tank, the reason is usually pretty damn obviously not just distance.

[DeadLegend]

I would say pure real damage dealt seems to determine hate more than anything else, for example hitting the monster for 400 damage seems to create more than curing yourself/someone for 400, but I could just be imagining things.

[darkdeath]

Someone mentioned on Kirin that when you voke and run away so far that you cant see him, you lose hate very fast.

I've seen this hapen a lot since im the main kiter on my shell. Sometimes people cant get it off me even if they want to (Crazy WS SAMs). And sometimes with just a cure III i lose hate fomr 6 vokes.

[aurik]

Someone mentioned on Kirin that when you voke and run away so far that you cant see him, you lose hate very fast.

I've seen this hapen a lot since im the main kiter on my shell. Sometimes people cant get it off me even if they want to (Crazy WS SAMs). And sometimes with just a cure III i lose hate fomr 6 vokes.

I dunno, I was @ kirin as mnk yesterday, and after 4-5 1200ish chi blasts, I could be all the way across the room and he would turn away from the tank and chase me down.

[Lyramion]

Tagging with provoke in dynamis is the weirdest agro-range example I know. A couple times I've seen a THF shoot the target and crit. The tagger runs up and vokes. The thing follows the voker for a little bit. Then pathing kicks in and voker gets a little more distance. Suddenly the critter turns around and is chasing the THF again. Voker stops and runs back. It's back to chasing the voker.

Odd things to consider here: the THF's crit is only like 60 damage total (+ acid debuf) -- that's a lot less than provoke. The THF is MUCH further away than the voker when it turns to the THF.

First actions to a mob have like a 1.5x (number just a guess but its there) emnity+ bonus - still tho strange for only a bolt

[nekoshoonen]

If my hate line is already fairly high or i cannot for whatever reason buff up beforehand (HNM fight) or if it's the start of a fight(exp) i will run off to convert. no hate will be gained from it. it's fairly obvious to notice esp as RDM/WHM Converting and DS+C4ing.

[Devek]

I once watched this one shell fight Kirin.. they had no rangers or black mages.

All their damage was from one monk and red mages...

At one point the monk had to go AFK and he ran to the teleporter which is REALLY far away from where Kirin is.

Like 10 min into him being AFK.. Kirin comes charging in and hits him a few times than runs off.

Regarding Provoke.. we have known for a long time that any hate you had from provoke is practically gone by the next time your provoke comes back up. If you rely on Provoke for hate you are going to fail pretty hard.