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  1. #1

    Economy and Crafting - Idea

    Ok, here's a really weird idea I just had while chatting with some friends.

    So, one of the problems now is that there's so much supply of armor and weapons, and there's very few ways of reducing supply. Obviously there's many more problems, but this is one I've seen mentioned time and time again as far back as I can remember. Anyway, one way of reducing supply is Guild Point items. Unfortunately, the system is somewhat broken in that after you finish GP for your Skill+ items, almost nobody cares about GP anymore. Naturally, if you could find a way to make GP like a super hot thing that eveyrone and their mother was doing, you'd reduce the shit out of the supply, hence creating more demand for items, which could have a major long term effect on the economy.

    So here's the idea: New HQ Crystals

    Everyone calls them "HQ Crystals" now, but they don't actually increase the chance of HQ. What if they did? Example:

    Level 1 Crystal: 200 points Properties: Signs an item
    Level 2 Crystal: 20,000 points Properties: Slightly increases the chance of HQ
    Level 3 Crystal: 50,000 points Properties: Moderately increases the chance of HQ.
    Level 4 Crystal: 100,000 points Properties: Greatly increases the chance of HQ.
    Level 5 Crystal: 400,000 points Properties: Tremendously increases the chance of HQ.

    My thinking was something like this:

    Level 2:
    Tier 0 -> 3% HQ
    Tier 1 -> 12% HQ
    Tier 2 -> 30% HQ
    Tier 3 -> 50% HQ

    Level 3:
    Tier 0 -> 10% HQ
    Tier 1 -> 25% HQ
    Tier 2 -> 35% HQ
    Tier 3 -> 50% HQ

    Level 4:
    Tier 0 -> 20% HQ
    Tier 1 -> 30% HQ
    Tier 2 -> 45% HQ
    Tier 3 -> 50% HQ

    Level 5:
    Tier 0 -> 30% HQ
    Tier 1 -> 45% HQ
    Tier 2 -> 50% HQ
    Tier 3 -> 50% HQ

    Of course, the GP point values and HQ percentages could obviously be adjusted, but the idea would be to make them cost a ridiculous amount so the system could not be abused, but make huge boosts to HQ rate given a strong enough crystal. That way even people with infinite gil to buy their GP would still be limited by real life time, since there is a cap per day on GP.

    Would this effectively revive GP, take the excess supply out of the economy, and help revive crafting?

  2. #2

    That is pretty good idea, only problem i see with it is that theres only a handful of item that you can trade in for GP, and even then sometimes it is not worth the trouble for certain items...see: sonic belt

  3. #3
    Ridill
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    It would also devalue many items. Dusk Gloves +1? Mahatma Cape? 30% chance to HQ? Sure, but when they turn around to sell them, they'll be worth a fraction of the price because everyone else would have gotten a level 5 crystal and synthed one of those, too.

  4. #4
    Melee Summoner
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    There isn't any oversupply. Things cost the same as they did two years ago.

  5. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamsin
    It would also devalue many items. Dusk Gloves +1? Mahatma Cape? 30% chance to HQ? Sure, but when they turn around to sell them, they'll be worth a fraction of the price because everyone else would have gotten a level 5 crystal and synthed one of those, too.
    Don't forget how long it takes to actually collect 400,000 guild points. It would take like 5-6 months real life time, and that's if you're trading every day. On top of that, not everyone would go for the same item. In the end, you might have like a few people per server getting specific items (30% is still only slightly higher than a T2, it's definitely a far cry from guaranteed), at which point they have to wait another couple months before they can try again with that rate.

  6. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamsin
    It would also devalue many items. Dusk Gloves +1? Mahatma Cape? 30% chance to HQ? Sure, but when they turn around to sell them, they'll be worth a fraction of the price because everyone else would have gotten a level 5 crystal and synthed one of those, too.
    i just thought (ouch) about this a little and khamsin has a point, and then NQs would be practically worthless, npc them ftw, or save for GP....much like it is now with NQs already though...well on some items....
    But i think it would bring down prices on materials considerably

    What if the new crystals opened up another level of HQ? like HQ2 HQ3
    blue boxes, yellow boxes ftw!

  7. #7
    Banned.

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    Personally, I'd like it if they got rid of those stupid crystals and make anything you make auto-signed. A system where you can trade in crafting results made by you and only you for points, of a different kind, which you can spend on getting rare/ex materials would be nice. Keep it seperate from GP.

  8. #8
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgn
    There isn't any oversupply. Things cost the same as they did two years ago.
    Last December, I was looking at the AH, and saw a 2 year old entry for errant cape priced at 6 mil. I saw one in a bazaar not long after, for closer to 60 mil. I also saw a Juggernaut for 70 mil, and I was recalling how I had bought a Juggernaut myself for 3 mil a couple years earlier.

    Even with an oversupply (e.g. Juggernaut, since it drops 100% every few days), things are worth a lot more than they used to be. My hauberk cost me 2 mil, but do you know how much it cost barely 9 months ago?

  9. #9

    Won't solve the real problem which is everyone having a craft at 90+. The ability to make money sucks now because of overcompetition and relatively few crafted durables even have a market.

    It doesn't help that SE occasionally adds items which fuck with crafted alternatives on the slot. Rajas/Tamas? Jet Seraweels? Ethereal Earring? Intensifying Cape? Yigit Gomlek? What melee job classes actually use crafted weapons...drk and drg?

    What they really need to do is: add a new tier of gear sets, both cursed and normal AH, majority of it having strong roots in crafting, make it cap at 106+, and then raise the craft cap to 110. But then people have been asking for actual progression for years and we still haven't gotten jack shit

  10. #10

    what do you guys think about making every synth. material ex.?
    even if they're are so many people with 90+ craft, they would still have to farm the mats. themselves, semi-limiting the supply.

    ignore how rmt would monopolize a system based like that though, since rmt is like the freaking bubonic plauge

  11. #11
    Insert Witty Title Here
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    i know people hate it and i know people will dissagree with me but i think there should be more good crafted armor with enchantments on it.

    most of my favorite gear is rare/ex, but if i had a body armor for my thf that i could equip and use an enchantment and get 30 minutes of dex +6 on top of my food i would totally buy that. then i could just swap back to my normal armor after using its enchantment. and once it ran out you buy another. SE should add more good enchantment armor that is worth buying. things like rr hairpins and gorgets sell really well.

  12. #12
    Melee Summoner
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    Okay, so crafter person says he can't make money because of oversupply, and someone else says things are too expensive nowadays. This averages out to prove my point that everything is still the same.

  13. #13
    Relic Weapons
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    While I like the guildpoints for a higher chance of HQ idea, I think that it wouldn't fix the problem.

    If you want to remove durables from circulation you don't want to get rid of the NQs, for the most part those arn't what people are trying to make, and until you get to 70+ most people won't bother with the NQs (and many crafters don't bother selling the NQs) because the HQs are still relatively cheap.

    If anything increasing the value of guild points will increase the number of HQs in circulation, becuase more people will be making the NQs to turn in for guild points.

    The solution is to figure out how to suck out the HQs, not the NQs. Maybe a second type of guild points that you get only with HQs would be a better solution. E.g. real "HQ' crystals from "HQ" guild points.

  14. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by shinobi_tabi
    what do you guys think about making every synth. material ex.?
    even if they're are so many people with 90+ craft, they would still have to farm the mats. themselves, semi-limiting the supply.

    ignore how rmt would monopolize a system based like that though, since rmt is like the freaking bubonic plauge
    Every synth material EX would reduce the focus on crafting and turn it into a farmfest. The theory behind crafting for profit is that you buy materials for less than the effort it would have taken you to get personally, then provide a service to the community by 1) taking the risk that the synth materials would break and 2) making something with extremely high skill for enhanced result.

    There are now so many morons crafting that they will do (1) for no profit--see for example amemet mantle +1 selling for 4x amemet skin price. They think they're making money when they get lucky and go 1/3, but they're not, they'll go 1/5 later.

    And since everyone has max skill now, there is no competitive advantage, so you can't really make money off of (2).

    The real money is having patience to do non-glory crafts like silk cloth and stuff. It's the equivalent of working in a mcdonalds, but it's risk free and actually decent money for time spent because it's so fucking boring.

  15. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Won't solve the real problem which is everyone having a craft at 90+. The ability to make money sucks now because of overcompetition and relatively few crafted durables even have a market.
    There are other things they can do to alleviate that as well. I don't think raising the crafting cap is a long term solution because once everyone hits the new cap, same problem again. One thing could do to alleviate that is Rare/Ex Recipe Scrolls dropped from NMs, for which the item cannot be synthed unless one has "learned" the recipe. Make them drop from normal lottery NMs, 24-hour NMs, sky gods, and hell even sea gods. This keeps the supply of these recipes low, and as such the number of people who can synth them will always be low.

    That's just one thing, I'm sure I could think of others if I tried.

  16. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgn
    Okay, so crafter person says he can't make money because of oversupply, and someone else says things are too expensive nowadays. This averages out to prove my point that everything is still the same.
    I never said I can't make money. Misquote me and make yourself look like an idiot please.

    And, the perception that stuff is "too expensive" nowadays because the ability to make money through enjoyable methods has greatly diminished. Best money nowadays is to grind farm and grind craft, which is about as fun as smashing your dick in a hot waffle iron.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Won't solve the real problem which is everyone having a craft at 90+. The ability to make money sucks now because of overcompetition and relatively few crafted durables even have a market.
    There are other things they can do to alleviate that as well. I don't think raising the crafting cap is a long term solution because once everyone hits the new cap, same problem again. One thing could do to alleviate that is Rare/Ex Recipe Scrolls dropped from NMs, for which the item cannot be synthed unless one has "learned" the recipe. Make them drop from normal lottery NMs, 24-hour NMs, sky gods, and hell even sea gods. This keeps the supply of these recipes low, and as such the number of people who can synth them will always be low.

    That's just one thing, I'm sure I could think of others if I tried.
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com

  18. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Won't solve the real problem which is everyone having a craft at 90+. The ability to make money sucks now because of overcompetition and relatively few crafted durables even have a market.
    There are other things they can do to alleviate that as well. I don't think raising the crafting cap is a long term solution because once everyone hits the new cap, same problem again. One thing could do to alleviate that is Rare/Ex Recipe Scrolls dropped from NMs, for which the item cannot be synthed unless one has "learned" the recipe. Make them drop from normal lottery NMs, 24-hour NMs, sky gods, and hell even sea gods. This keeps the supply of these recipes low, and as such the number of people who can synth them will always be low.

    That's just one thing, I'm sure I could think of others if I tried.
    Raising the crafting cap is a long term solution as long as they're willing to keep raising it later. The natural stable point of most systems is gentle inflation.

    Another alternative is to make craft skill degrade over time and require maintenance. It would be annoying as fuck but it would achieve the same effect of letting only the truly dedicated to a craft sit around with capped skill and thus capped potential.

  19. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddong
    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Won't solve the real problem which is everyone having a craft at 90+. The ability to make money sucks now because of overcompetition and relatively few crafted durables even have a market.
    There are other things they can do to alleviate that as well. I don't think raising the crafting cap is a long term solution because once everyone hits the new cap, same problem again. One thing could do to alleviate that is Rare/Ex Recipe Scrolls dropped from NMs, for which the item cannot be synthed unless one has "learned" the recipe. Make them drop from normal lottery NMs, 24-hour NMs, sky gods, and hell even sea gods. This keeps the supply of these recipes low, and as such the number of people who can synth them will always be low.

    That's just one thing, I'm sure I could think of others if I tried.
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com
    I wasn't aware that they did that, but if they do then kudos, because it's a pretty fucking good idea imo.

  20. #20
    Relic Weapons
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    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Won't solve the real problem which is everyone having a craft at 90+. The ability to make money sucks now because of overcompetition and relatively few crafted durables even have a market.
    There are other things they can do to alleviate that as well. I don't think raising the crafting cap is a long term solution because once everyone hits the new cap, same problem again. One thing could do to alleviate that is Rare/Ex Recipe Scrolls dropped from NMs, for which the item cannot be synthed unless one has "learned" the recipe. Make them drop from normal lottery NMs, 24-hour NMs, sky gods, and hell even sea gods. This keeps the supply of these recipes low, and as such the number of people who can synth them will always be low.

    That's just one thing, I'm sure I could think of others if I tried.
    Raising the crafting cap is a long term solution as long as they're willing to keep raising it later. The natural stable point of most systems is gentle inflation.

    Another alternative is to make craft skill degrade over time and require maintenance. It would be annoying as fuck but it would achieve the same effect of letting only the truly dedicated to a craft sit around with capped skill and thus capped potential.
    Oh dear god, the clothcrafters would kill you. Bonecrafters wouldn't give a damn though.

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