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  1. #61
    Old Merits
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    Is obfuscate really that bad? I haven't merited on puks just a whole hell of a lot, but I remember having heard about it being an accuracy killer, but the other day meriting on puks there in the thickets, I noticed myself hitting through it a good deal more than I had expected. It may just be a case of the reality not being as extreme as the rumour, or it might be my ultra-acc heavy mnk build, possibly with focus also stacked on top of that.

  2. #62
    Sea Torques
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    I've missed Asuran Fists on them several times due to Obfuscate, so yeah, it's pretty bad >_>

    I can land full asurans on plenty of evasive mobs, but when those fuckers use that move, I can barely punch a wall.

  3. #63
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    I've never missed TA post-Assassin. As long as I'm positioned properly, it has always been 100% Critical and 100% Accurate. Never missed TA with Grah & Puks' Flashga on as long as I was aligned properly with someone infront of me.

    The only times I -occasionally- miss is due to me moving a tiny bit (or the tank slightly moving out of position). Even if it may look like we're correctly aligned while moving, if I swing as I move, even if that movement may be extremely small, you can occasionally miss.

    But when you're aligned properly, TA is 100% Critical and 100% Accurate.

    THF main, pre-Assassin:
    SA: Guaranteed Critical hit, DEX bonus damage. When used on Multi-hit WS, first hit (and offhand?? not actually sure about how offhands work) guaranteed crit, other hits can still miss.
    TA: AGI bonus damage, if you hit. Transfers hate to the person in front of you.
    I'm gonna make a comment about the bolded part assuming you meant a hit that inflicts dmg.

    Pre-Assassin, even if you don't land a hit that inflicts dmg, the THF will still transfer hate to the person infront of you. I've tested this with a lv37 THF friend in Gustav Tunnel on Hell Bats. He went with no armors and used bare hands -> Lined up properly with the Bat with TA activated, whiffed, but the Bat started attacking me instead of him. But then again, this was a one-trial test.

  4. #64
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    as a 75 thief, trick and sneak are almost identical, except one focuses on dex bonus, one focuses on agi bonus, and the obvious 1 stand behind someone, other stand behind mob.

    I dont recall ever missing anyone unless they specifically move or we're standing on retarded terrain, I too use TA+WS when we get flashga'd so the chain doesnt break.

    best way to test sneak/trick 100% on an attack round, pull out a kraken club and use SA+Hit on an IT mob, then disengage, you will land 100% of all the hits, even with no skill.

  5. #65
    New Spam Forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordwafik
    as a 75 thief, trick and sneak are almost identical, except one focuses on dex bonus, one focuses on agi bonus, and the obvious 1 stand behind someone, other stand behind mob.

    I dont recall ever missing anyone unless they specifically move or we're standing on retarded terrain, I too use TA+WS when we get flashga'd so the chain doesnt break.

    best way to test sneak/trick 100% on an attack round, pull out a kraken club and use SA+Hit on an IT mob, then disengage, you will land 100% of all the hits, even with no skill.
    Wise words.

    Taking my puk buddies for instance. Say homie puk decides to use its aoe flash (obflicablahblah) everyone and their momma is missing like crazy, asuran fists missing, blade jin hitting air, DE without being stacked with sa or ta wiffing. This is where I pop off TA or SA and bam! I get my 9-10 tp every time. If it's around 40% I'll even do a TA or SA SB since I'm only lossing 1 swing, and I'll pop off a 1.2kish SB every time since the first and offhand hits always will land.

  6. #66
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidanoir
    If you can't tell if your lined up use F5 and make sure your centered with the person your TAing..
    F5?? F5 selects player 5 for me what does it do for you o.O

  7. #67
    S N K
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidanoir
    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Trick Attack does not guarantee that the hit will land.
    Sneak Attack does guarantee that the hit will land.

    If Trick Attack is active, and if the hit lands, 100% of enmity is transfered 100% of the time.
    100% True summary . except again make sure you are lined up properly...

    If you can't tell if your lined up use F5 and make sure your centered with the person your TAing...and the mob is also centered or whatever <.< its not that hard unless the person likes to move
    Weird exception to the rule, SA+WS can be blinked, SA alone can't.

    But ya, TA+WS isn't 100% accuracy either, although there does seem to be some kind of accuracy bonus, as THF main at least.
    I thought it didn't exist honestly but then again SE is never good about explaining what stats do what.

  8. #68
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    Err oops I meant 5 on numpad not F5 <.< the one that switches to FPS view.

  9. #69
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    I'm no authority but TA by itself has amazing accuracy in my experience barring some lineup problems, so much to lead me to believe that it is indeed

    agi modifiered
    Criticaled
    100% acc as long as the game thinks someone is in front of you

    /hates uneven ground for camps

    btw

    Doesn't it seem like if there's a Pld and a Bard near each other TA + WS will almost always land on the Bard?

    Ive started avoiding doing TA anytime anyone is near the person getting tricked on ...

  10. #70
    Relic Weapons
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    If the brd's closer to the mob, then he will get hate

  11. #71
    Hydra
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    THF main
    Sneak Attack + Offhand will connect, even through shadows.
    Trick Attack + Offhand will connect, even through shadows Post-60.

    The only exception is Perfect Dodge.

    Even if you offhand a Kraken as THF/NIN and perform either of those two /ja, the follow-on hits will all connect and penetrate Utsusemi and Blink and land 100% on a non-PD target.

    Mainhand + Offhand penetration through Utsusemi example

    You'll notice I still had an Utsusemi image, both hands are connected.



    Post-60 they are both 100% ACC unless conditions are not met. Sneak Attack is still easier to meet the condition for now even after the nerf (the arc used to be a full 180 degrees). Angles, multiple layered targets, height differences (via terrain sloping), and external TA targets (someone outside your alliance) will cause Trick Attack to fail to meet it's conditional requirement every so often.

    Trick Attack is a 100% enmity transfer of your next attack on both THF main and /THF. You can prove that by doing only a TA on an engaged enemy and performing Hide afterwards to check a hate queue entry (even on a truesight or sneak aggo/scent tracking enemy).

    SA+WS used to completely ignore shadows/blink until the Physical AoE Utsusemi patch came into effect. I used to chain farm Beadueax and saw this change immediately on the Maul dropping WHM Quadav with Blink up. You can ask a SAM how SA+Gekko or any other 1x WS performs now against shadows if you want to take the guesswork out of multihit WS.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaffar
    If the brd's closer to the mob, then he will get hate
    Despite me being positioned behind the Pld?

    So if the bard is right up against it and near me and the tank he'd probably end up TA'd on if I'm understanding what you mean.

    i.e.

    __________Brd_____________
    _Me -> Pld -> Baddie <- Melee
    __________________________

    Maybe it's just lag due to Bard songs interfering though I hate blaming Lag for anything ...

  13. #73

    Quote Originally Posted by Archain
    You can ask a SAM how SA+Gekko or any other 1x WS performs now against shadows if you want to take the guesswork out of multihit WS.
    I'll double check this in my next merit party, but last night I did SA+Mercy Stroke on a Puk in Thickets right after it had used that Blink move. Unfortunately I had certain filters on so at first I didn't even know wtf had happened, just couldn't figure out why I did 0 damage and got no chat log message. My TP return was either 0 or 5, but again I'll need to double check next merit party.

  14. #74
    Smells like Onions
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    It's very easy to see in ballista.. sneak alone will stomp people through utsu, sneak + ws = they laugh at you.

  15. #75
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    Please don't tell me there's a 5 page thread on BG about what TA does.

  16. #76
    Banned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagel
    Please don't tell me there's a 5 page thread on BG about what TA does.
    Blame Chiz.

    Edit: 6 now lawl

  17. #77
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Quote Originally Posted by Archain
    You can ask a SAM how SA+Gekko or any other 1x WS performs now against shadows if you want to take the guesswork out of multihit WS.
    I'll double check this in my next merit party, but last night I did SA+Mercy Stroke on a Puk in Thickets right after it had used that Blink move. Unfortunately I had certain filters on so at first I didn't even know wtf had happened, just couldn't figure out why I did 0 damage and got no chat log message. My TP return was either 0 or 5, but again I'll need to double check next merit party.
    do you have misses filtered? SA+1hit WS does not go through shadows.I posted pics a while back of "Lordwafik readies mercy stroke" "1 of the Sea Puk's shadows absorbs the damage and dissapears".

    Funnily enough, even when you use ass charge it wont go through either.

  18. #78

    I don't usually, but I did yesterday for some reason. For some reason I recall having 5 TP after it happened though. It's possible he only had 1 shadow left when I started the WS, so I guess in that case my offhand would have hit him.

  19. #79
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    I don't usually, but I did yesterday for some reason. For some reason I recall having 5 TP after it happened though. It's possible he only had 1 shadow left when I started the WS, so I guess in that case my offhand would have hit him.
    if only your offhand hit the mercy you'd still have gotten a number (with shitty dmg).

  20. #80
    Relic Weapons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levish
    Despite me being positioned behind the Pld?

    So if the bard is right up against it and near me and the tank he'd probably end up TA'd on if I'm understanding what you mean.

    __________Brd_____________
    _Me -> Pld -> Baddie <- Melee
    Yep. One of my earliest THF party memories that has stuck with me was when a SMN kept accusing me of SATAing him- but I was lined up behind the tank, he just happened to run up to buff us as I SATA'd, and ended up closer to the mob & getting the hate.

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