Couple of Ouryu Cometh questions

[ubermonkey]

So I just recently was lucky enough to get a cloud evoker from my regular enm duo, however I have a couple of questions:

1) What exactly do you need to have flagged/complete to enter the fight

2) What tips/strats can people offer for the fight?

Thanks

Uber.

[Ryko]

1) Just need access to A01
2) Hit your bursts if you bother to have melees at all and don't leave the sleep order to uncertainty for a second, people should know who next sleep is and they should be out of range waiting.

[Maguspk]

if you're tanking with a normal setup, have a whm or someone who can Stona outside of ouryus aoe stone move. I think it is about 20 meters away that it stops like most AoE moves.

[RKenshin]

Not to discourage you or anything, but just about everyone loses on the first try if you're going to be going in there with no first-hand experience... And in some cases the first few tries, or at least based on what I've seen/read.

Everyone in the LS could read up every strategy and prepare in every possible way, and it's still going to be a hard battle. Just expect the worst and don't get overconfident, if everyone does their job correctly then it's really not too hard of a BC.

Especially make sure everyone knows their job and what they're expected to do. Usually we have one RDM hold elementals with Sleep, and every 10 minutes BLMs will kill them (otherwise they build a sleep immunity over time). Worms are either Charmed by job/BST (RDM/BST or WHM/BST most common that have BST 65+) and held that way, or slept until killed by melee. Usually there's only 2 worms in range at any given time, best to position him south (?) near the portal as far as you can go before he draws you in.

Also have a WHM that's out of AoE range for Stona and/or cures in emergencies after Terrorga. BLMs will nuke freely being careful over hate, and melees (if any) TP off worms and SC during landings. Don't be afraid to use ES+Sleep if things get rough or if it petrifies/terros everyone at a bad time, just make sure to be aware of how much time is left at all times.

Most importantly, everyone should keep RR up at all times.

[Maguspk]

Not to discourage you or anything, but just about everyone loses on the first try if you're going to be going in there with no first-hand experience... And in some cases the first few tries, or at least based on what I've seen/read.

Everyone in the LS could read up every strategy and prepare in every possible way, and it's still going to be a hard battle. Just expect the worst and don't get overconfident, if everyone does their job correctly then it's really not too hard of a BC.

Especially make sure everyone knows their job and what they're expected to do. Usually we have one RDM hold elementals with Sleep, and every 10 minutes BLMs will kill them (otherwise they build a sleep immunity over time). Worms are either Charmed by job/BST (RDM/BST or WHM/BST most common that have BST 65+) and held that way, or slept until killed by melee. Usually there's only 2 worms in range at any given time, best to position him south (?) near the portal as far as you can go before he draws you in.

Also have a WHM that's out of AoE range for Stona and/or cures in emergencies after Terrorga. BLMs will nuke freely being careful over hate, and melees (if any) TP off worms and SC during landings. Don't be afraid to use ES+Sleep if things get rough or if it petrifies/terros everyone at a bad time, just make sure to be aware of how much time is left at all times.

Most importantly, everyone should keep RR up at all times.

Good stuff right there.

[ubermonkey]

What sort of non manaburn setups would you reccomend?

Based on my LS's members I think this is the sort of setup we'll be bringing:

Pld/nin X2
Sam/thf X2
Drk/thf
One or 2 of: War/nin/sam/thf, drk/thf, sam/thf, blu/something
2 rdm/blm
2 whm/smn
smn/whm
brd/whm, possibly a second.
3-4 blm/rdm

We'll be tricking SC onto the pld, and we have a bunch of mistmelts left over from ouryu CoP.

[Gilanth]

Been a while but thats a lot of melee for this BC from my memory.

[tyraravenlocke]

I you have any blu's in your ls SA + Cannonball owns his noodle.

They are nice suppliments if your ls lacks blms.

[RKenshin]

Don't use mistmelts, honestly Ouryu is infinitely easier to deal with in the air than on the ground. If anything at all, mistmelts should only be used during some drastic emergency where almost everyone is dead/dieing and you need to put Ouryu on the ground to sleep him (since he doesn't sleep int he air). Even in situations like that we still usually just let him fly, because it's so easy to control him.

I also would recommend getting more BLMs for that setup as well if possible, in my experiences melees overall aren't the best DDs for him. Damage is a little on the low side (especially thanks to Invincible+Stoneskin spam) and you're extremely limited by your output as well. BLMs can usually do steady and good damage in -Enmity gear and rarely (if ever) pull hate with a good tank PT, and also can be utilized for ES+Sleep and quick elemental kills. Melees on the other hand pull hate faster from lack of -enmity gear, deal crappy damage using only TA, and can't use SA too often at the risk of Spike flailing and costing the BC.

But, the strategy my LS uses isn't the end all be all way to kill him, so I'm sure there's other ways to kill him as well using a more melee-heavy alliance.

Typically, this is what our setup looks like:

Tank PT:
PLD/NIN
NIN/WAR
RDM/WHM
WHM/SMN
BRD/WHM

Notes: In my experiences I've never seen a PLD/WAR strategy work, maybe with Aegis and the best gear it could, but otherwise MP just doesn't keep up and they die very fast. Ouryu can't be slowed in any form so he'll hit like a tank and hit fast, hurting people without shadows a lot. We usually use some combination of PLD/NIN and NIN/WAR, and occasionally a third tank. For the most part, this setup has worked great in both MP efficiency and ability to hold hate. As always though, a stable tank PT is probably the most important thing to have for this fight.

PT#2:
BLM
BLM
Melee
Melee
WHM
RDM

Notes: The WHM in the above PT will often be out of Terrorga/petrify range for emergency Stonas and Cures. That WHM will also help with curing both in and outside the tank PT. The two melees will be /THF and build TP on worms and SC each landing (using TA around 50% of the time), and recommend some kind of defense gear for one for tanking worms. They're very weak overall, just add in some moderate defense gear and they hit for like 30-50 damage. The RDM in this PT is usually also in charge of holding the elementals.

PT#3:
BLM
BLM
BLM
Misc
Misc
RDM

Notes: RDM in this PT assists with Elementals if needed and helps with curing/debuffs/etc as well as Refresh. This RDM also usually sleeps worms that agro until melees can get across to them. The misc jobs are normally filled with BLMs or SMNs, etc. It really can be just about anyone, and I just recommend putting jobs here to improve where you're weak. IE, if damage is slow then put a DD here (recommend BLMs or SMNs), or if MP is a huge problem them put another WHM here, etc.


That's usually what we do, and it's been pretty solid overall as a strategy. I have no idea how many Ouryu we've killed but it's way over 30 by now, and the fastest time was I think 23 minutes. Average time is more like 40 minutes though.

But, just remember all I said in the last post as well... Good luck!

[Sci]

Notes: In my experiences I've never seen a PLD/WAR strategy work, maybe with Aegis and the best gear it could, but otherwise MP just doesn't keep up and they die very fast. Ouryu can't be slowed in any form so he'll hit like a tank and hit fast, hurting people without shadows a lot. We usually use some combination of PLD/NIN and NIN/WAR, and occasionally a third tank. For the most part, this setup has worked great in both MP efficiency and ability to hold hate. As always though, a stable tank PT is probably the most important thing to have for this fight.

I'm pretty sure another LS on my server used PLD/WAR and WAR/WHMs to beat it, but they had to sleep it quite a bit because of MP issues. My LS uses pretty much what you said though, PLD/NIN, 2x NIN/WAR, 2 melees, support, and the rest are BLMs. It's certainly the hardest wyrm to tank on NIN though, no slow/elegy, and breakga and terrorga are cute too.

[Garret]

The strategy my LS uses is manaburn but slightly different than the variations described above.

Pt1:

Pld/War
Pld/War
Whm/Blm
Whm/Blm
Brd/whm
Rdm/Blm

Pt2:

Blm
Blm
Blm
Blm
Blm
Brd/Whm

Pt3:

Nin/Drk
Nin/Drk
Rdm/Blm
Brd/Bst
Blm
Blm

We sleep Ouryu every time it lands with an ES Sleep rotation. For the first 70% or so we do ES Sleep 2 > ES Sleep 1, this guarentees that when Sleep 1 wears off he will fly right away.

Blm's go all out while Ouryu is in the air, he is slept right away on landing. Pld just go all out on hate the entire time, although you could just as easily use a Nin/Drk or Nin/Brd for another high enmity tank option if you wanted to.

Around 30% we switch to ES Sleep 2 > ES Sleep 2, that way when he begins to spam a bit more while in the air the alliance has more downtime betwee flying cycles to rest up and for the tanks to keep hate well established.

We have the Nin/Drk solo the 2 elementals which will end up aggro'ing, and have them aspir them down to 0mp at a steady pace. Once the elementals are out of MP they are a joke & can be easily solo tanked, we don't kill them. We also have 2 people /Bst typically to charm nearby worms, although Viralei works as well if neccesary.

It's been a stable strategy for us and our win time is usually around 35-40 minutes. Could probably shave more time off that if you wanted to but it's pretty stable as it is and with a decent enmity build your tanks shouldn't lose hate at all the entire fight.

[RKenshin]

Noticing a lot of people use sleeping strategies now, and actually come to think of it, I'd recommend that for the OP since it's really the safest strategy to use. As long as you have good damage it's a pretty easy way to win, 90% of the trouble in the BC comes from what Ouryu can do while on the ground. If you eliminate that, then it ends up being a lot easier.

Also, for setups like that PLD/WAR would work fine since there's very little (if any) tanking while it's on the ground.

We started off with something similar originally, except didn't sleep every landing, and instead used it something more like every other just to damage it a little faster. Gradually though we ended up moving away from that strategy and using Sleep less, and now we just about never use it.

It's certainly the hardest wyrm to tank on NIN though, no slow/elegy, and breakga and terrorga are cute too.

I agree, not to mention the Slow spam that overwrites Utsesumi. It ends up being a bitch for PLD/NINs as well since they lack a shadow, but two shadow tanks balancing hate well usually get around those problems fine.

[Garret]

If you can round up enough Blm for the Sleep strategy it's by far the safest & easiest way to do the fight, but probably not the quickest.

[ubermonkey]

Thanks for all the advice folks, my LS's main tank and I are hashing out a strategy based on what the LS can bring.


How does this fight compare to a "real" wyrm fight?

[Garret]

I would say that overall he is harder.

Most of the difficulty, however, lies in the time constraint & player restraint due to it being inside a BC, if you can easily field the proper alliance then he is much easier than the other Wyrms.

While the other Wyrms may be physically more dangerous none of them have any real sense of urgency to them and they tend to be friendlier to varied tanking & damage strategies, whereas I think Ouryu is a bit more locked in in ways you can go about fighting him reliably.

[Skan]

This is very good info, does anyone know if there are any other links in the forums on this fight? I have searched but, could find nothing else. Thanks in advance.

[Kaeko]

There are a ton of ways to pull off this fight; however, I think the easist way to pull this off involves...

1) Elemental Seal Sleep II Ouryu once or even twice on the Ground
2) Use Full Earth Resistance Gear in Air + Barstonra + Carol on Tank(s) - this gear is pretty cheap to get
3) BLM spam spells in air or SMN netherblast Spam

As Rukenshin mentioned, the vast majority of problems that cause people to wipe occur when Ouryu is on the ground... Terrorga is horrible if you are in bad position. Also Ouryu's melee speed is very high and he can't be Elegy'd or Slowed. If you just sleep it on the ground then use Earth Resist in air, he's extremely easy to manage.

Using BLM or SMN Netherblast has alot of advantages to this fight... Ouryu's invincible and stoneskin were already mentioned. Also, his TP resets with touchdown. Feeding it TP only in the air means he can't TP at all when he's on the ground, even in the TP spam phase last 25%. Last time we did Ouryu, we did 6 consecutive runs using this idea and he never TP'd once on the ground in 6 fights, eliminating the hardest part of the fight. A more in-depth summary of what we did @

http://kanican.livejournal.com/1929.html

This strat only involved 6 BLMs and 12 members total and works extremely fast even with sleeping on the ground and no DoT. The others outside the 12 were misc jobs like THF that never melee'd or backups which were never got in and just ended up playing with elementals. Unfortunately, the problem with this idea is it takes 4-6 BLMs and leaves any melee out, but it is extremely safe.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck!

[yuriku]

Sorry for the bump,

Do you need clear on 4-2 to enter? or just acesss to the zone?

We are goning today and have a member who just got on 4-2.

[Eraphiel]

Just access to A-01, which you get after 2.....-3?
If you're on or past the Mamets, you're good.