Juggernaut or Haub+1

[Ishido]

65 Warrior right now, I'm wondering what people think I should buy first with the money I have now, Juggernaut or Haubergeon+1.

If it matters, 75 NIN and SAM as well.

I will probably regret posting this after it turns into Man/Jugg vs. Woods/Man.

[Charitwo]

Haub+1

[Kurp]

Haubergeon +1. It upgrades your two 75 jobs and your warrior could use it right away.

[Kaylia]

Wood/maneater and haub+1. The fact you have nin and sam too make haub an even better choice


Wood/maneater is the best combo you will get for war. Work well in xp and against HNM. Joyeuse can works better in certain xp camp, but your sword merit will give you an handicap against certain HNM (assuming you merited sword instead of axe)

[Btight]

Wood/maneater and haub+1. The fact you have nin and sam too make haub an even better choice


Wood/maneater is the best combo you will get for war. Work well in xp and against HNM. Joyeuse can works better in certain xp camp, but your sword merit will give you an handicap against certain HNM (assuming you merited sword instead of axe)

You think Woody/Maneater is better than an axe/axe combo of Jugg and Woody or Maneater? Or did I just read what you said wrong?

[Kaylia]

I had all 3 axes for about 1½years and parsed multiple time. Difference is retarded, but wood/maneater is what gave me the best result usually.

Jugger is probably decent in mamook, and it was good against a few HNM, but it doesnt worth the price tag at all. Unless I'm missing something that changed since I got ridill, result should still be similar.

[Karinastar]

Haub +1 for sure, it boosts all 3 of your jobs. Wood/Man is a very solid axe combo and you'd have to religiously parse and analyze to see any real difference in exp between it and Man/Jugg. Juggernaut is great for HNMs though.

There's also the offhand Joyeuse route. This pretty much requires full sword merits though. Assuming full merits and optimal other gear, this will usually parse a bit better in merits at most camps, but usually will fall short versus axe/axe on anything harder. The side benefit to a good Axe/Joy setup is Ridill is pretty much plug n' play.

[yrpaine]

Haub +1 for sure, it boosts all 3 of your jobs. Wood/Man is a very solid axe combo and you'd have to religiously parse and analyze to see any real difference in exp between it and Man/Jugg. Juggernaut is great for HNMs though.

There's also the offhand Joyeuse route. This pretty much requires full sword merits though. Assuming full merits and optimal other gear, this will usually parse a bit better in merits at most camps, but usually will fall short versus axe/axe on anything harder. The side benefit to a good Axe/Joy setup is Ridill is pretty much plug n' play.

/sword unless you have ridill only requires something like suppa. you really don't need to merrit sword for it to work unless you're fighitng mobs which are IT+eva (or have a ridill and a majority of your dmg is from sword) in which case you'd be using sushi and you'd have agressor anyway, so... you'd be fine.

as long as you have some combo of wood/man/jugg/joy/ridill and a hauby+1, nobody's going to complain, unless the rest of your gear is crap. If you're affording a hauby+1, i'd assume the rest of your gear is up to par, so it should be a non issue.

[RKenshin]

Definitely Haub+1, as it will benefit all three of your jobs.

IMO Jugg/Man is definitely the best axe combo, but Jugg really isn't worth the price tag until you don't have much else you could buy to improve on. Several pieces of good gear (especially when it's across multiple of your jobs) outweigh one piece of good gear, and until there's not really any other options for good gear I wouldn't inveset in a Jugg.

[Kaylia]

Definitely Haub+1, as it will benefit all three of your jobs.

IMO Jugg/Man is definitely the best axe combo, but Jugg really isn't worth the price tag until you don't have much else you could buy to improve on. Several pieces of good gear (especially when it's across multiple of your jobs) outweigh one piece of good gear, and until there's not really any other options for good gear I wouldn't inveset in a Jugg.

Dunno, the 4dmg I was missing seemed to hurt me more than the 30 attack back when I was xping on sky weapon. It wasnt really big tho

[RKenshin]

I had all three for a long time (still have Man/Jugg now), and during this huge rush to exp last year when ToA came out (I'm sure you all remember that) I did a bunch of comparisons between primarily Jugg/Rid and Man/Rid, along with some Wood/Rid and a few Axe/Axe combos.

Over the course of maybe 100 merits or so results were strongly in favor of Jugg, followed pretty closely by Maneater, and Wood being last by quite a bit. In the end it's just like a gear situation... As a MNK would you rather melee in Alky bracelets or O-Kote? O-Kote has been tested to be much better as far as damage per hit as 11 STR vs 20 attack, results for me were just about the same with 4 base and 1 STR vs 30 attack. In addition, plenty of tests have proven base damage isn't as glorious as most used to think.

There's also an older post on KI that gives some pretty good mathematical evidence of the extra 30 Attack being much better than Wood based on all those wonderful WS equations and such.

But again, this is all just based on the information from my experiences and what I've read. But, I feel pretty confident it's all as close to accurate as it gets.

[Lockecole]

Man/Jug best Axe/Axe combination.

Man/Ridill best Axe/Sword Combination.

Just IMO. Maybe Axe/Axe > than Axe/Sword at some points, but not if you're geared correctly. My sword is higher than my Axe with Fortitude Torque, and only somewhat less without it. So people who claim Ridill isn't good on HNM I don't get. Especially with a BRD, Axe/Sword all the way.

[RKenshin]

Yeah, it does fine at HNMs as long as you have the right gear/merits.

Personally I use Axe/Axe just for fun sometimes and to do something a little new, I'd get tired of always exping as the same job with the same setup every single PT for over like 1m exp. Fun thing about an Axe/Axe build with meat is that it basically turns you into a MNK, lol. Damage output is different overall, but you'll end up having a crazy high melee/WS avg.

Although, I recently got rid of my "always the same thing for exp =(" problem for a while so I'm happy.

[Kaylia]

There's also an older post on KI that gives some pretty good mathematical evidence of the extra 30 Attack being much better than Wood based on all those wonderful WS equations and such.

But again, this is all just based on the information from my experiences and what I've read. But, I feel pretty confident it's all as close to accurate as it gets.

If you single wield, I'm almost certain jugger had the lowest dot of all 3. That's what I was getting back then against xp mobs. It's different with dual wield obviously since bonus apply to both hand, but it can't be that far ahead either assuming jugger won. >_>

Wish my jugger wouldnt have been stolen when I left the game. Kinda wanted to do parsing with ridill and another axe.

[Sonomaa]

I used man/jug for my axe career and I miss them so (even had names for them too ; . The ridill is great for TP, but I know Im missing some power in my ramps that the ridill doesnt give. Consistently I was able to hit higher ones, its just now I get to do about twice as many of them.

[Don Katsu]

I may be wrong but I believe there was a discussion on Axe/Axe with a COR in the party parsing pretty close to Axe/Sword.

I would go with the Haubergeon+1. You can't use the Juggernaut yet and will probably end up selling it like everyone else does once they realize it's overpriced for what it actually does.

[Sonomaa]

Id vote for haub+1

[vagus]

haub+1. It'll be good for your warrior and samurai. Hauberk is a waste of gil, unless it's E.Hauberk. heh.

[Khamsin]

Man/Jug best Axe/Axe combination.

Man/Ridill best Axe/Sword Combination.

Just IMO. Maybe Axe/Axe > than Axe/Sword at some points, but not if you're geared correctly. My sword is higher than my Axe with Fortitude Torque, and only somewhat less without it. So people who claim Ridill isn't good on HNM I don't get. Especially with a BRD, Axe/Sword all the way.

I've been using Wood/Jug for years, and when Maneater came out, it just seemed like a poor man's Juggernaut. Is Man/Jug really better than Wood/Jug?

[Palin]

Maneater is the best Axe out of all 3. Juggernaut comes close but the 3 D, slightly lower delay, and more importantly the ACC puts Maneater ahead of Jug as a single weapon.

Jug is however the best offhand. I've never liked Woodsville, Kaylia I think you swear by it since you saw your numbers in Sky weapons, which are like the easiest xp mobs in the world besides maybe Puks. Sky's a place where you can wear Osode for WS and do better than Haub, they're just so easy.

New areas changed things a bit. Mamools have quite a bit more Evasion and DEF than Decos, Trolls have shitty Evasion but insane Defense. When you're actually fighting IT mobs, Man/Jugg is by far the best combonation. One D and 4 STR in now way comes close to 18 ATK and 5 ACC. Same for HNM, Maneater/Jug is so good against the Defense and Evasion of most HNMs. Can't beat 48 Atk, 5 Acc, and 3 STR from your weapons alone.