6 man Cerberus and Jorm (on Page 7)

[asze]

When I went NIN/DRK on Cerb nearly all my binds landed as well, I got a huge kick out of it also.

I usually can't lind bind on EP's /drk but all the time on cerb, so much sense.

Says the guy who went to JoL as NIN/DRK and tried to bind, poison, and even stun it to get hate, lol.

Quick question.

Why wouldn't stun or bind create hate on JoL? I've been working on my NIN/DRK for a few months now and regardless of resists I gain hate like a madman using the usual Haste/Enmity|MP setup. FYI no actual experience fighting JoL, but just want some clarification.

[Jer]

There's also certain areas where the terrain is flat, but the casting radius is larger. For me it's usually most BCs, Limbus and Dynamis.

[fumbletweed]

I always thought max casting range depends on your actual distance from the mob - meaning your distance to the outer border of the mob. I guess distance plugin displays the distance to the center of the mob. The center is afaik also used as center of the mobs aoe-abilites, so that you can stand outside 20' aoe moves but still cast spells yourself.

[BerenTebogo]

When I went NIN/DRK on Cerb nearly all my binds landed as well, I got a huge kick out of it also.

I usually can't lind bind on EP's /drk but all the time on cerb, so much sense.

Says the guy who went to JoL as NIN/DRK and tried to bind, poison, and even stun it to get hate, lol.

Quick question.

Why wouldn't stun or bind create hate on JoL? I've been working on my NIN/DRK for a few months now and regardless of resists I gain hate like a madman using the usual Haste/Enmity|MP setup. FYI no actual experience fighting JoL, but just want some clarification.

He means bind stun and sleep, and it DID work, and he's an idiot.

That about sums that up

[Lockecole]

http://www.infinitumls.com/

Frontpage, 7 man Cerberus kill 100>>0%. I wasn't there so hard to see who's on what job, it was awhile ago.

I know for a fact it was at least:

Crulion(PLD)
Azulite(DRK)
Telen(RDM/DRK)
Naerie(WHM/SMN? or /BLM for ES Slow)

Bei, Xolto, and Koroco Im not sure what they came as. Bei could have been BLM or PLD, Koroco PLD or SMN...Xolto BLM or RNG. Assuming the above setup only has 2 Stuns, Im assuming Koroco was PLD, Bei and Xolto BLM.

So there you go, setup could be incorrect on the bottom 3, but it's doable with good players. Need a good tank, a good WHM, and good stunners, and you can go on indefinately.

[Yeargdribble]

When I went NIN/DRK on Cerb nearly all my binds landed as well, I got a huge kick out of it also.

I usually can't lind bind on EP's /drk but all the time on cerb, so much sense.

Says the guy who went to JoL as NIN/DRK and tried to bind, poison, and even stun it to get hate, lol.

Quick question.

Why wouldn't stun or bind create hate on JoL? I've been working on my NIN/DRK for a few months now and regardless of resists I gain hate like a madman using the usual Haste/Enmity|MP setup. FYI no actual experience fighting JoL, but just want some clarification.

He means bind stun and sleep, and it DID work, and he's an idiot.

That about sums that up

Agreein here... from my understand these are the bread and butter of NIN/DRK hate holding tools.

[asze]

I was wondering about that, thanks for the info. Had me thinking that JoL was something that only a PLD/NIN could tank. And yeah Sleep/Stun/Bind, I've yet to use poison, hell can't remember if I hold it in my spell list as DRK, never used that bloody spell.

Kinda derailed for a second.

What other spell do any other NIN/DRK's use for hate or is it the normal 3? Trying to see if there is anything else that can keep my MP Consumption down, I rarely run out of MP and have 5 MP merits already, but every little bit helps.

TFI.

[Lockecole]

I was wondering about that, thanks for the info. Had me thinking that JoL was something that only a PLD/NIN could tank. And yeah Sleep/Stun/Bind, I've yet to use poison, hell can't remember if I hold it in my spell list as DRK, never used that bloody spell.

Kinda derailed for a second.

What other spell do any other NIN/DRK's use for hate or is it the normal 3? Trying to see if there is anything else that can keep my MP Consumption down, I rarely run out of MP and have 5 MP merits already, but every little bit helps.

TFI.

I use Stun/Bind/Sleep, and debuffing tools on mobs that cant be debuffed too well (Cerberus) but usually only use Kurayami on Tiamat, since RDMs stick Slow 2 on Tiamat. The above 3 are normally more than enough to hold hate, and with a good haste build + March, once the above 4 are used, timers should be back up. Just watch using sleep when you have hate, a couple of double attacks and you'll find yourself without shadows. I dont think anything more than the above would be necessary, as its normally more than enough to dominate hate against any PLD/NIN.

[BerenTebogo]

I'm 8/8 HP merits and don't have a ton of MP gear, more enmity geared so the only spells I will use are Sleep 1 / Stun / Bind

Those by themselves can hold enough hate solo tank, if you're trying to tank a mob like JoL where you will have 6-10 BLM nuking it to hell and are trying to hold hate even with another tank (PLD/NIN can generate alot more hate on this fight from -ga's >> cure themselves spam) then what I just do is conserve my JA's.

I try to keep it so a stun > sleep combo can take hate, but if say thundaga III just lands and PLD cure IV himself then Rampart I will definitely need to pop souleater and maybe last resort to keep hate from getting too one-sided.

If you have MP merits and some MP gear I'd try to stick to aiming to keep hate only with spells, it's safer than relying on JA timers, but sometimes is necessary no matter what setup

Also, I use San spells to help hate a small bit too, its not much but unresisted they pull some nice hate.

[SassiAsura]

It surprises me that cerby's regen wouldn't outmatch your damage over time. Does it even have regen? o_o

[Darkblood]

Random question while watching JP fight right now. One of their RDM's is 24.0 from Cerb, spamming Poison 2. To my knowledge the max cast for Poison 2 is 20.7xxx, any ideas wtf is going on?

Yes you're a shithead that uses distancer plugin and I hope you get banned for it, and everyone else who uses it too.

AoE, casting and aggro ranges are something that should be learned with time, not automatically with a plugin.

Cry me a river

[asze]

I figured as much, as that is actually what I use and only use my JA's for when I know the BLM are going to decide to go nuts for whatever reason. Usually once I pop Last Resort on and take it off is more than enough to grab hate from the BLM again.

And I don't keep LR or SE up for more than a split second, just enough to turn the mob back to me. I've actually got lucky enough to build my Haste setup before Ulli Aery existed so I'm at a 20% Haste build with about 210MP can't think of how much enmity I have but its a good chunk.

Thanks for the input though was curious whether others had tried anything else.

[Lockecole]

It surprises me that cerby's regen wouldn't outmatch your damage over time. Does it even have regen? o_o

Cerb has no regen whatsoever, Im sure of this. We've kept him at 25% for like 10mins once waiting for someone to get in Mount for Algol, so yeah, definately no regen.

Looking at the above setup, Im kinda amazed we had no BRD. Gonna have to get back to you on the actual setup of that 7man dog.

[SassiAsura]

Should Nin/Drk burn it then! 12x Nin/Drk 6x Brd/Nin

[Kaylia]

I always thought max casting range depends on your actual distance from the mob - meaning your distance to the outer border of the mob. I guess distance plugin displays the distance to the center of the mob. The center is afaik also used as center of the mobs aoe-abilites, so that you can stand outside 20' aoe moves but still cast spells yourself.

Pretty sure every casting are calculated from the center of the mobs. Wouldnt make sense from a programming standpoint

It surprises me that cerby's regen wouldn't outmatch your damage over time. Does it even have regen? o_o

Never saw Cerb's regen. You sure it has one?. I think we would notice its hp go up with the constant stoneskin.

[fumbletweed]

I always thought max casting range depends on your actual distance from the mob - meaning your distance to the outer border of the mob. I guess distance plugin displays the distance to the center of the mob. The center is afaik also used as center of the mobs aoe-abilites, so that you can stand outside 20' aoe moves but still cast spells yourself.

Pretty sure every casting are calculated from the center of the mobs. Wouldnt make sense from a programming standpoint

It doesn't make sense - but it seems like the logical conclusion when looking at the variations in casting ranges. Especially that you can keep more distance to bigger mobs.

[Kaylia]

If I would enlarge all my .dat, I could just cast from farther? It still doesnt make sense. Every positioning in this game is calculated from the center of your model.

Casting distance is always slightly larger than 20, and Cerb's AoE range has 20 radius.

[SassiAsura]

I always thought max casting range depends on your actual distance from the mob - meaning your distance to the outer border of the mob. I guess distance plugin displays the distance to the center of the mob. The center is afaik also used as center of the mobs aoe-abilites, so that you can stand outside 20' aoe moves but still cast spells yourself.

Pretty sure every casting are calculated from the center of the mobs. Wouldnt make sense from a programming standpoint

It surprises me that cerby's regen wouldn't outmatch your damage over time. Does it even have regen? o_o

Never saw Cerb's regen. You sure it has one, I think we would notice with the constant stoneskin.

Never fought or saw cerby, I was basing the regen out of assumption.

Damnit you're from Qc too? I'm from the Outaouais o_o

[fumbletweed]

If I would enlarge all my .dat, I could just cast from farther? It still doesnt make sense. Every positioning in this game is calculated from the center of your model.

I don't have any mage jobs leveled and I don't have the distance plugin so take what I say with a grain of salt. By I went by what other people wrote like

Max cast range is usually around 21.0, but on larger monsters it is occasionally longer. For example, in limbus you can cast at 23.0 or possibly even 24.0 on the Behemoths.

which seems to support my statement. Also, it is impossible to to disregard the bounding box of a mob completely. As melee you can't stand inside a mob but you still have to be able to be in melee range.

It would in fact be interesting to see what happens if you increase the size of mobs with dats. Maybe the client would allow you to cast a spell, but the server would object. I remember there being 2 different out of range messages, maybe thats 2 different checks.

[Delekii]

I'm 8/8 HP merits and don't have a ton of MP gear, more enmity geared so the only spells I will use are Sleep 1 / Stun / Bind

Those by themselves can hold enough hate solo tank, if you're trying to tank a mob like JoL where you will have 6-10 BLM nuking it to hell and are trying to hold hate even with another tank (PLD/NIN can generate alot more hate on this fight from -ga's >> cure themselves spam) then what I just do is conserve my JA's.

I try to keep it so a stun > sleep combo can take hate, but if say thundaga III just lands and PLD cure IV himself then Rampart I will definitely need to pop souleater and maybe last resort to keep hate from getting too one-sided.

If you have MP merits and some MP gear I'd try to stick to aiming to keep hate only with spells, it's safer than relying on JA timers, but sometimes is necessary no matter what setup

Also, I use San spells to help hate a small bit too, its not much but unresisted they pull some nice hate.

Go NIN/BRD if you have to go NIN at all.. but shadows are pretty much a waste on JoL. More than 50% of his spells are AoE, and hate can be regained by curing when they arent anyway. I tanked the last JoL as RDM/BRD, with -emnity merits. Chainspell mazurka to open the fight, and the DRK's and /DRK's can start DDing straight away, full steam and no chance of getting hate. No reason for even PLD to go /nin - much better off to go PLD/WHM for MDB and curaga, /RDM for Phalanx, or /BRD for limitless hate. Its also a lot less work than /DRK - 1 spell every 9 seconds instead of spamming and requiring MP.

And you are right on the size of the mob affecting cast range - all the bigger models in the game can be cast on from slightly longer range, it applies to all the mobs in the game.