Marriage, Relationships, Divorce and Children.

[SephYuyX]

As years pass, it seems there are fewer marriages and more divorces, I think the current ratio is for every two marriages, there is one divorce. That may seem a bit contradictory, but that also factors in current marriages.

There was a study done about 20 years ago and it studied the marriages happiness, and their feelings towards divorce. I believe for every 10 couples that felt they were unhappy in their relationship, only one of the couples got divorced. Back then it, even if a couple said they weren’t happy, they didn’t get a divorce, but instead worked things out for both their children and their selves. Now a day, those figures go beyond.

In the current studies the divorce rate is insanely high, at the first sight of unhappiness everyone wants to get a divorce, and don’t want to try to work things out. A writer predicted this about 30 years ago when he did a study on African Americans, he saw that their house holds were breaking up quicker, and that one out of ever four babies born were out of wedlock and the father was not around. He predicted that in the near future those statistics would rage out of control. Today it seems he was right, as of now 70% of African American babies are born out of wedlock and a successful marriage is 20%.

Now I know you guys hate statistics and all, but there is truth, take a look around, how many children are being born out of wedlock? How many marriages are turning in to divorces? The new trend again is younger marriages, back in the day it was common, now a days people are waiting even longer to get married, but there are still a lot of couples who are getting married at 19 or 20 or 21. Out of those young marriages 90% end up in divorce, I know of two couples that got married young, and they are both divorced now.

I don’t know what I’m really getting at with this, but when I heard this on the radio today (3.5 hours to get to work due to snow today..) along with call ins, it is really shocking.

What ever happened to two people who love each other getting married, having a kid, and sticking through it for better or for worse?

A female writer who also talked said the original intent of a marriage was for the wife to watch the young child, and for the husband to support them. Take a look at today, look at how many single mothers there are, sure they may be scraping by, but how is that affecting the child?

I believe it takes a family to raise a child, and even if its just for that child’s sake, that the couple should persevere and try to find a common ground to succeed on.

What’s up with all these couples just living together and not getting married? People say they do this so they don’t have to worry about a divorce when the time comes and they feel uncomfortable with each other. Now obviously in today’s society there is little regard for sex anymore, everyone is doing it, younger and younger and it’s just a sad sight. So what happens when you couple the reasons of younger kids having sex, plus no one getting married anymore? What will our society be like in 10, 20 years?

Most of what is said from things I heard on the radio today, and what I’ve observed, nothing personal. However I may be a bit biased as I was raised in the stereotypical ‘perfect’ household, and I believe that marriage is not a fling, that it is a life long thing and sex is something that should wait until that day.

However I was wondering what you all felt about this subject?

Do you think society is fine how it is? Do you think it should go back to the way it was where everyone strived to make the relationship work and have children? Do you think its ok to live with someone and never get married? Do you just not care? Etc.

[Dezzimal]

I voted other. I haven't made up my mind and don't plan on making up my mind any time soon.

[Kuya]

When marriage was "perfect" and people where together much longer, women did not have the rights they have today, and society was still very patriarchal(sp?) and it still is, somewhat. Marriage simply cannot work in today's society. People are becoming more accepting of eachother but for some reason marriage is crumbling.

You already stated why marriage was made, and basicaly answered your own question of why its failing. Its a archaic system of support and education for society, if it is to survive it needs to change also. To add on to that, weve always been taught stories of how one falls in love, marries and then lives happily ever after. People come into these relationships expecting the same everlasting happiness, but then they find out it does not work that way. People's perception of marriage obviusly needs to be changed, it isn't just some little love binding ceremony, it is a lot of hard work and requires enormous effort.

In the end, two people spending their lives till they die? I don't think people have a good grasp of time to understand that forever is a pretty long fucking time. You can't expect people to spend so much time together and not get become dissatisfied, people are separating because they are unhappy, whether thats a good thing or bad, its up to the individual to decide.

Edit: Forgot to add, marriage is a religion based ceremony, hence its very archaic. Why do we need marriage, when people in the old times where able to raise children without this little birthright? Whats the diference between a couple whos not married and one who isn't? A bunch of papers. The only real advantage that marriage has, is some few benefits for the family (which was made to make marriage more appealing).

In my total opinion, marriage is just a system used by society to educate children on how they should behave and think. Parents pass on information to their children that their parents got off their parents, school and the media. Its arguable whether most of the "virtues" parents pass on to their children are really theirs to begin with. And I also bealive you dont need to be married to love someone. We are animals, to me marriage is just another way man tries to convince himself he is no animal, trieng to make himself feel he is special somehow. Saying ill spend the rest of my life with you, is easier sead than done.

Lol that was longer than i thought.

[Steveon]

What ever happened to two people who love each other getting married, having a kid, and sticking through it for better or for worse?

I'd love to know that too. I come from a family like this (granted I live on my own right now) where my mother and father are staying together because they had six children together. They know how separation would affect us all, including the children that wouldn't understand why it happened.

Take a look at today, look at how many single mothers there are, sure they may be scraping by, but how is that affecting the child?

From what I remember from living in NY, there aren't that many single mothers "scraping by." Many understand how the world works and can survive pretty well without a man. I have a few friends in this situation right now.

I believe it takes a family to raise a child, and even if its just for that child’s sake, that the couple should persevere and try to find a common ground to succeed on.

Definitely. "Old fashioned" couples may still believe this but the new generation can give a flying fuck about anyone other than themselves.

What’s up with all these couples just living together and not getting married? People say they do this so they don’t have to worry about a divorce when the time comes and they feel uncomfortable with each other.

The answer was within your paragraph. That's the only reason they have. Also, in the end, they can run away from responsibility because they aren't required to stick around.

Do you think society is fine how it is? Do you think it should go back to the way it was where everyone strived to make the relationship work and have children? Do you think its ok to live with someone and never get married? Do you just not care? Etc.

I think the previous way was definitely better than how things are described in your post but I also believe that it's fine for couples to live together without being married. It avoids divorces and everything that follows when that time does come, if it does.

Sorry for the long post.

[Devek]

Marriages fail for many reasons, but it is usually because people fail.

Schools don't teach things like character and parents don't have time to so you have people that lack what is needed to build a family trying to do so anyway.

The first thing a person should learn before engaging in any relationship (marriage or otherwise) is to take responsibility for how they feel and find happiness within.

A lot of people out there chasing relationships are just looking for something to make them happy and feel better, but thats counterproductive because if you're not self-sufficient alone relationships with other will bring you nothing but pain and misery.

Being with a partner without character is a waste of time.. the second they have a bad day it will be your fault and that just isn't worth it.

I could go on and on, but the problems in marriages rarely have anything to do with the relationship and everything to do with flaws of the people getting married. How many people do you know that can do things like acknowledge simple mistakes?

I really hate the feminist movement too, not that I think women should be barefoot and pregnant or anything.. quite the opposite. I just every single woman I know with the exact same standards I would judge a man which is what real feminist actually want.. The problem are a lot of girls that think they are feminist when they are really quite retarded.

If I let someone drive my car and I tell them not to make a left turn out of my edition because there is a hill and if someone is speeding over it you won't see them in time.. I expect them to do it because it is my car and I know what I am talking about.

Not so with "smart independent women" who can think for themselves(do the opposite of what they are told).. they will take a left turn just because they can and total your car. The only thing more gay than that are guys who act the exact same way...

Anyway, there are a many more character flaws.. but no one cares.

[Correction]

People's understanding of the simplest of marriage vows obviusly needs to be clarified

It's fun to get married, as long as you understand it's not breakfast in bed and blowjobs 100% of the time. When things go wrong in a marriage it's usually because people were never serious when they got married in the first place. Should just make it harder for everyone to get married, no just tehzomghomosexuals. Bet you divorce rates go way down and the 50% of marriages failing within a year statistic becomes a distant memory.

[Not Kuno]

Lol we just did this in Sociology so I can answer this pretty well.

Marrage was completely different 40 years ago. In the 60s, the average age for men to get married was 22.8 and the average for women was 20.3. I'm 21 right now and I cant even begin to imagine myself as married. Now the average age for men is around 26.8 and women its 25.1.

Divorce now is much more widely accepted, that is why you see more of it. In the past there was a huge stigma in regard to getting a divorce. Women now are much more economicly independant also, in the past it was harder for a women to leave a man and support children. There are many other reasons divorces have gone up. You can have a no-fault divorce, which takes away the initial "its his fault!" or "its her fault!" divorce which makes it seem less of a bad thing. Marriage is now more in terms of personal satisfaction rather then the old fasioned "I hope you marry a rich man honey so you don't have to do anything ever again" notion.

There are other reasons for divorce. If your parents were divorced that actually increases your chance for getting a divorce as well. Premarital cohabitation actually increases divorce. You would think living together before you get married helps but actually it takes away from the specialness of divorce. It becomes much easier to just walk away if you're unhappy rather then finally moving intogether when married to show the commitment. Other things like Premarital Childbaring increase divorce for obvious reasons. Marriages at an early age are also obvious, people jump into things that are pretty serious. Stupid kids. Also a childless marriage is another big one. If you don't have a child you can get divorced because you don't feel the guilt of leaving a child (or if youre a guy, having to pay out the ass for the rest of your life).

I could go on but this is probably too boring so meh.

[Kenai]

It might have been mentioned before, but just because people were married and divorced less before didn't mean those marriages were healthy for everyone involved. I agree people should work through their problems more...but on that note, things like family relationship counseling, one parent families, both parents needing to work outside the home to maintain finances, and other things that existed a lot less in the 50s-60s...people don't seem to take these kinds of things into account, when I believe statisically, when a marriage ends, it more often than not has something to do with money.

I guess I just really don't like when people talk so much about "the good old days" and "getting back to family values like it used to be", when it reality, those perfect families never really existed (except on T.V), and the modern familiy has had to adjust to accomidate to things that previous families did not have to deal with. Divorce is always sad but you have to really think about the verall picture sometimes...

[zakhiel]

You know, I used to think that marriage was this sacred thing, etc., too. I had a great family, everyone always said my parents would NEVER get divorced, they're the perfect couple, blah blah blah. My dad worked full time and stayed gone 5 days a week to earn the money we needed to live comfortably to the best of his ability (HS dropout), and my mom stayed at home w/ us (HS dropout as well...). We lived very comfortable lifestyles, my brother and I were spoiled to death (let's all go to town EVERY weekend, you want a new videogame son? sure thing!) Well, they DID get divorced, my Junior year of HS (98-99). And I still haven't gotten over it. My mom divorced my dad, and I really never found out why she did... I just can't understand how someone can just 'fall out of love' with someone after 20+ years, two kids, and living a pretty good life.

Honestly, I haven't thought about marriage and I'm 24. Not any time soon.

[Kuya]

You know, I used to think that marriage was this sacred thing, etc., too. I had a great family, everyone always said my parents would NEVER get divorced, they're the perfect couple, blah blah blah. My dad worked full time and stayed gone 5 days a week to earn the money we needed to live comfortably to the best of his ability (HS dropout), and my mom stayed at home w/ us (HS dropout as well...). We lived very comfortable lifestyles, my brother and I were spoiled to death (let's all go to town EVERY weekend, you want a new videogame son? sure thing!) Well, they DID get divorced, my Junior year of HS (98-99). And I still haven't gotten over it. My mom divorced my dad, and I really never found out why she did... I just can't understand how someone can just 'fall out of love' with someone after 20+ years, two kids, and living a pretty good life.

Honestly, I haven't thought about marriage and I'm 24. Not any time soon.

Hope im not sounding like a jerk, but I just think they stayed together for so long for you and your brother. It looks to me like they lost their interst in being together long ago, until they just could not take it anymore and decided to actually split. If you ever do get married you should probaly see it that way, get married for love, but stay together long enough to maintain that "image" till your kids are gone, assuming the "feeling" fades.

[Eaglestrike]

It might have been mentioned before, but just because people were married and divorced less before didn't mean those marriages were heathly for everyone involved. I agree people should work through their problems more...but on that note, things like family relationship counseling, one parent families, both parents needing to work outside the home to maintain finances...people don't seem to take these kinds of things into account, when i believe statisically, when a marriage ends, it more often than not has something to do with money.

I guess I just really don't like when people talk so much about "the good old days" and "getting back to family values like it used to be", when it reality, those perfect families never really existed (except on T.V), and the modern familiy has had to adjust to accomidate to things that previous families did not have to deal with.

You have a couple decent points, but I completely disagree with your second paragraph. Society was overall healthier back then, family and all. Both my best friend and my ex-fiancee have "model families". Best friends family is a good little Christian family, though there is one rebel (younger middle sister of 4 kids) she doesn't even compete with my rebellious nature in HS and the other 3 kids are quite amazing. The older of the middle sisters is quite attractive (1 year under me) but has intentionally avoided all relationships to simply work on pre-med, even through high school. My ex-fiancee's family has no religious affiliation but her parents have *never yelled at each other ever* and the 3 older brothers are married or set to be married and all smart and occasionally also hardworking guys, oldest brother used to do web design for big $$ and middle two always did physical labor to help pay their own way through college, even when their parents were able to offer them money.

The problem is what's been said in earlier posts, about parents not teaching their kids "character". This is key, an adult should be able to hold back their emotions when they're with their kid, there really shouldn't be anything more important to a parent than that, imo. And to think what you want is more important than what your child wants is selfish and a complete lack of character, but it's something we deal with in society today. I honestly have no idea how to fix this, I'll just say WE NEED MORE GOD.

Oh yeah and my parents broke up early in my high school because my mom "didn't love him anymore" (I was eavesdropping, kinda, when she said this to my father, woo!) and my brother really needs special attention and imo has completely ruined his development and chance to work with society, but I don't want to get into that. I know firsthand what it's like to experience that kind of divorce, it's even more retarded because my parents get along better than I get along with either of them, but they're divorced with no plans of getting back together (each have significant others). It's just stupid that people put themselves over their kids, which is the new kind of greed and selfishness in our current society.

[Daahan]

The reality is that love isn't always sweet and happy. Every couple has their ups and downs. You still marry for love and have to make sure it's the right person so that you can spend the rest of your life with said person.

I really want to have children to be honest. To be even more honest I want to have a boy. My parents were never, ever supportive of me. The last time I have ever got along with my parents was in junior high. As soon as high school hit, we never liked each other.

I want to have kids because I want to give my kid(s) the support and care I never had. My parents never showed up to my wrestling matches, never showed up to my football games, never showed up to my award ceremonies (except graduation).

So to be honest, the main reason I want to get married is to have kids to care for and carry on my name, because I think that's important too. But that doesn't mean marrying the woman I love isn't a main reason either.

[Kuya]

Eaglestike, thou I agree with you, it kinda works both ways. Is the child not the greedy one for ignoring his parent's happiness just so he can be happy? Im speaking mostly of kids above the age of 15 here, any less, and her/his selfishness should be expected.

I was born out of wedlock and i never even seen my father( recently tried to contact me to get to know me). My mother remarried to a old man who is now my stepfather and i love them both dearly. They stayed together for me and my brothers for about 17 years, even thou i can clearly see they do not love eachother anymore.

I could not be anymore grateful that they spent more than 10 years together for me and my siblings sake, they sacrified their happiness for mine, and i owe them the world. But now I only want to see them happy, they should have a chance to find happiness and not be doomed for their rest of their lives just for taking care of others, they deserve more than that.

[Kenai]

The problem is what's been said in earlier posts, about parents not teaching their kids "character". This is key, an adult should be able to hold back their emotions when they're with their kid, there really shouldn't be anything more important to a parent than that, imo. And to think what you want is more important than what your child wants is selfish and a complete lack of character, but it's something we deal with in society today. I honestly have no idea how to fix this, I'll just say WE NEED MORE GOD.

Oh yeah and my parents broke up early in my high school because my mom "didn't love him anymore" (I was eavesdropping, kinda, when she said this to my father, woo!) and my brother really needs special attention and imo has completely ruined his development and chance to work with society, but I don't want to get into that. I know firsthand what it's like to experience that kind of divorce, it's even more retarded because my parents get along better than I get along with either of them, but they're divorced with no plans of getting back together (each have significant others). It's just stupid that people put themselves over their kids, which is the new kind of greed and selfishness in our current society.

I have to disagree with society being overall healthier back then. It's more to me like most problems weren't talked about...everything just shoved under the carpet, so to speak. Everything from the "big issues", like Racism and Women's Rights, to smaller, harder to pin down things, like a feasible stay at home parent vs today's double shift yet-can't-seem-to-find--good-childcare parents (and come to think of it, WHY aren't there that many feasiable stay-at-home-parents now vs then? Answer that and you might get what i'm trying to explain overall). Statistical data has gone a long way since then, not to mention crime investigation, what is considered a crime, the availablity of information, ect. I know you might find it hard to believe, but stuff like Leave It to Beaver did not acurately display the average family during the time, actually those types of families were anything but ordinary. People were just expected to deal with whatever problems they had without every really talking about them, even if they were serious ones. It's hard to just classify every situation as something especially when it involves you or someone you know, and of course stuff is situational, but still...why would Mommy leave Daddy? Think about it, really, really think about it. I am not accusing anyone of anything, mind, but it's never really as simple as "the love died out". Just now people are really starting to marry for love vs before, where the majority of the time, it was more of an obligation to someone, and thus, they had less of a choice in whether to stay or go.

[Scythiroth]

After all the divorce in my family, I'm pretty much against it. Marriage only really seems to be something you do when you have kids now, other than that, meh. Still doesn't seem to work even when people have kids.

IMO, Marriage is a waste of money.

[layoneil]

Is the child not the greedy one for ignoring his parent's happiness just so he can be happy? Im speaking mostly of kids above the age of 15 here, any less, and her/his selfishness should be expected.

there's no reason to arbitrarily choose 15. the legal age for most things is 18-21.

when two adults decide to have children, they should make that commitment of at least 18-21 years. if they are not willing to make that commitment than they shouldn't have kids.

[Kuya]

there's no reason to arbitrarily choose 15. the legal age for most things is 18-21.

I choose 15 because i bealive at that age childlike selfishness starts to diminish, could be wrong thou. And arbitrarily?? You mean theres a diference between drinking and voting at 17 and 18? If the person was immature at 17, he will still be immature at 18.

Edit: Thou separating is still better at 18, cause of the whole legal age crap.

[layoneil]

I choose 15 because i bealive at that age childlike selfishness starts to dimish, could be wrong thou. And arbitrarily?? You mean theres a diference between drinking and voting at 17 and 18? If the person was immature at 17, he will still be immature at 18.

what you believe is arbitrary. you must have never seen girls whine about their sweet 16 party or 18 year-olds begging for a car so they would have one on campus.

21 is the legal age when society tells a person to stop being a bum and be independent.

as a responsible adult planning parenthood, that should be the limit you set, since before a child is born you have no idea when their childish tendencies will actually diminish.

[Intense]

I dont think that 15 is a good age to go by. I work for the juvenile courts, Public defenders office. All of our attornies can attest that a persons brain isnt developed fully at 15, its more like 18-21 like previously suggested in the thread. Girls are of course a little more ahead of the curve than boys, but not by much

[Eaglestrike]

Is the child not the greedy one for ignoring his parent's happiness just so he can be happy? Im speaking mostly of kids above the age of 15 here, any less, and her/his selfishness should be expected.

there's no reason to arbitrarily choose 15. the legal age for most things is 18-21.

when two adults decide to have children, they should make that commitment of at least 18-21 years. if they are not willing to make that commitment than they shouldn't have kids.

Agreed. And while I was around 15 when it happened and my parents' divorce ate up all of their money to fund college (not that it mattered but I still wouldn't gotten a $20k mutual fund after I had my scholarship for school to play with...) it's my younger brother that is the biggest problem. He's not entirely there in the head and the loss of discipline in the house since my father left has ruined him. He barely graduated high school, mainly just because my mother did all his work and sits around playing games all day, kinda like me, but my brother is never going to move out, I am in a few months, he's never held a job, I've held a number of them. My parents needed to stay together for him and I think it's wrong that they split with him in his state of need. I'll refrain from getting anymore personal even though I have more to say to another person, too much about me is bad.

@Kenai: You think people having to deal with problems instead of RUNNING FROM THEM is worse? The mindset back in those days was more of "that's what he/she is like" and the mindset these days is "he/she isn't who I want them to be". I think there was a better sense of honor/morals/justice/othervirtuesandstuff back then. Like Daahan said, I think that mindset was a lot more common back then, I don't hear that from people too much, I just see topics like "Fuck or duck?" Also our grandparents generation was from WW2, and I think they're quite different from from the parents generation of "free love" and "sex, drugs and rock and roll". I don't believe back then it was all Leave it to Beaver-like, but I think that things were better because there was more teaching at home going on as well as more beating of children.