Melees and HNM TP

[Hakamaru]

Ok, so my LS doesn't think mob TP is a big deal. They let MNKs & THFs melee fafnir / nidhogg, then bitch about how we always get waay more wing spam than the JPs. After a pretty difficult Nidhogg a few weeks ago, I decided I should bring this up the next day camping fafnir. I ended up with a THF and MNK yelling at me. Basically, they are saying that fafhogg has TP regen, so why bother worrying about feeding it TP? They also told me that it spams TP because we use PLDs instead of NIN tanks (i.e. it gets the TP from hitting the PLDs... ).

Anyway, since no one wants to discuss things like adults in my LS I figured I'd ask here. What is your LS policy for melees in HNM fights? Let's be more specific and limit things to fafhogg since mob TP spam makes a big difference in the difficulty of that fight. 2-handed weapons only? Do melees turn away from fafhogg once they get 100% TP? Or do they keep whacking away while waiting for their turn to Skill chain? Do you let MNKs melee or do they Chi-blast in your LS? Overall, I'd like to know if it makes a difference in the ease of the fight when you plan out your alliance with mob TP in mind.

Also, I've noticed fafhogg will use TP moves back-to-back occasionally. Why does he do this? Can he store up more than 300 TP and use it in 2 moves back-to-back? Is it because his HP is low and he gets some strange TP property? Or is his TP regen simply that powerful?

[Krandor]

Fafhogg does have TP regen, to the point I believe he gets 100 TP every 5 or so seconds.

Also don't fucking melee Nidhogg when the wings are up if you don't want your ass winged.

[Mifaco]

i thought the new trend in HNMs was to TPburn them

[Kaylia]

Ok, so my LS doesn't think mob TP is a big deal. They let MNKs & THFs melee fafnir / nidhogg, then bitch about how we always get waay more wing spam than the JPs. After a pretty difficult Nidhogg a few weeks ago, I decided I should bring this up the next day camping fafnir. I ended up with a THF and MNK yelling at me. Basically, they are saying that fafhogg has TP regen, so why bother worrying about feeding it TP? They also told me that it spams TP because we use PLDs instead of NIN tanks (i.e. it gets the TP from hitting the PLDs... ).

Anyway, since no one wants to discuss things like adults in my LS I figured I'd ask here. What is your LS policy for melees in HNM fights? Let's be more specific and limit things to fafhogg since mob TP spam makes a big difference in the difficulty of that fight. 2-handed weapons only? Do melees turn away from fafhogg once they get 100% TP? Or do they keep whacking away while waiting for their turn to Skill chain? Do you let MNKs melee or do they Chi-blast in your LS? Overall, I'd like to know if it makes a difference in the ease of the fight when you plan out your alliance with mob TP in mind.

Also, I've noticed fafhogg will use TP moves back-to-back occasionally. Why does he do this? Can he store up more than 300 TP and use it in 2 moves back-to-back? Is it because his HP is low and he gets some strange TP property? Or is his TP regen simply that powerful?

-Don't melee CoP wyrm.
-Don't melee HNM with spike using a fast weapon like cerberus and Jailer of Hope. Not that it matter much tho (especialy for hope since its a joke) with more than 12.


Doesnt really matter for the rest. Their WS are either too weak, blinkable,you are zerging with a bunch of melee, they have tp regen...etc The problem having melee is that they can often take dmg from AoE, which mean healer have additional mp to waste. If this is not a problem, than you should be fine.

Concerning faf/nid, I never seen them use 2 WS in a row. Most mobs however spam their tp as soon they get 100 under 25%, which is why they will uses Ws every 10 seconds or something

[Bagel]

Fafhogg seems to WS every 45 seconds above 25% and around ever 20 seconds below 25% regardless of # of melee or what type of tank. Sometimes it does more dragon breath/terror/roar than wing and it feels to most of the ally like he's not WSing as much.

[Kaylia]

What I always wondered is if it was possible that HNM WS selection depend of their current TP.

300tp = 55% wings, 10% breath 10%terror
100tp = 15% wings...etc

[exceed]

FF and NH are such a joke it doesn't really matter how many people you have melee'ing it

[Hakamaru]

FF and NH are such a joke it doesn't really matter how many people you have melee'ing it

Thanks, you sound just like my LS mates.

We had a bad Nidhogg like I said. There were MPKs & multiple flails involved and then we finally got ahold of it partially wiped by flail. It then proceeded to TP spam to such a degree that we were losing our Tanks & WHMs to it. I don't see what the problem is with knowing what may be causing such actions. But you do your thing.

[Seditedi]

I think the number of melee plays a huge role in how often an HMM gets/uses a TP move. Fafnir with TP regen some people say that he spams TP regardless, but I think more melee will definitely make it worse. Not sure how you guys handle Proto-ultima, but he is retarded with 2 or 3 melee constantly on it. A few melee on Ultima constantly really makes it harder to control imo. Last fight we did, ended up using only NIN for DD, with the other melee med'ing TP and WSing. With just 2 NIN constant DDing he only used maybe 1 WS per minute or less. For some fights, it makes things alot easier.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Trust me on this. Never EVER melee kirin.

[Celeras]

They also told me that it spams TP because we use PLDs instead of NIN tanks (i.e. it gets the TP from hitting the PLDs... ).

Yep, and it gets way more tp from landing a hit then it does by getting hit.

[Zilong]

They also told me that it spams TP because we use PLDs instead of NIN tanks (i.e. it gets the TP from hitting the PLDs... ).

Yep, and it gets way more tp from landing a hit then it does by getting hit.

How is the TP gain via hit calculated?

I know that the TP gain when mobs get hit is PC TP gain+3, though I never actually try the TP gain via hitting.

Any BST can give me some light on this matter?

[Woozie]

Mob TP actually depends on who's fighting the mob. If the LS that you're LS hates most claims Nidhogg, he'll just roar/breath/terrorize, but if you guys claim it yourselves, he'll spam wings over and over.

[Martinius]

generally speaking, our linkshell found it more effective, because of the way SE has it setup for mobs to gain tp, to have our melee turn away after gaining 100 tp. yes, fafhogg has natural tp regen, but why add to it more than necessary?

that said, mnks have many natural subtle blow traits and i think it was aurik that posted(don't quote me on that, but i know aurik's really good with numbers) that mnks actually give the mob less tp than other jobs, despite their high number of melee swings. we always had our mnks chi blast however, just because on a high evasion mob like fafhogg, they were much more likely to break 1k dmg, speeding up the fight. thfs are more of an issue, b/c of the low damage of weapons(this has been changed of course, tho i havent fought fafhogg in a while, so i dont know how much the weapon damage change affected them) so we found it most effective for them to sub samurai(/drk makes them too much of an mp sponge and /war is ok, tho doesnt really boost them enough to keep their tp gained vs. tp given worthwhile), to facilitate skillchaining.

while any job can be effective on these mobs, it sounds like your mnks and thfs are inflexible tools. would your mnks rather melee or get a black belt? >.>

ps. our linkshell once ate three wings in the span of 10 seconds. it was fucking brutal. it was just bad luck, as there had been times where we had fafhoggs that were like 'lalala breath spam for 60% of the fight' but that particular one hurt like a bitch.

[Stilgar]

Holding melees back off your HNMs is totally 2004. Why has this been brought up? So you had a rough Nid with more wings than usual. It happens. What are you going to do, demand that everyone in the LS level lolSMN?

[Krandor]

Honestly you're complaining about HNM TP growth, and then go on to point out that your "rough" Nidhogg was from getting MPKed and Flailed. Sounds like your LS has bigger problems then how fast Fafhogg can TP

[Machazareel]

We throw droves of melee at everything, works nicely, even though things can get a bit messy at times.

Either way, it's fun =0

[Hakamaru]

that said, mnks have many natural subtle blow traits and i think it was aurik that posted(don't quote me on that, but i know aurik's really good with numbers) that mnks actually give the mob less tp than other jobs, despite their high number of melee swings.

Yeah, I understand that MNKs have subtle blow. +25 subtle blow @75 if I remember correctly. That means they get roughly 8 swings per 100 TP where the added +3 TP per hit gets nullified. The problem is damage per TP given to the mob. Even though MNKs have subtle blow, they have one of the worst ratios of damage / TP given aside from maybe NIN and THF. NINs don't typically DD in fights like this, so no one discusses them.

while any job can be effective on these mobs, it sounds like your mnks and thfs are inflexible tools. would your mnks rather melee or get a black belt? >.>

I don't really wanna rag on my LS mates. I just wanted to hear what other people do and see if we're doing something totally different. I called this guy a MNK because that's what he seems to show up at Fafhogg as... he's got his BB, and he's one of those people making an effort for Maat's cap, so he has many jobs to choose from. The THF recently got his Mandau, so I can understand why he'd get pissy in the face of a mob TP discussion. Now if only I could convince him to stop dual wielding it.

[Hakamaru]

Honestly you're complaining about HNM TP growth, and then go on to point out that your "rough" Nidhogg was from getting MPKed and Flailed. Sounds like your LS has bigger problems then how fast Fafhogg can TP

Yeah yeah... there's a difference between complaining and making an effort to understand. I believe there's another section on this forum for this type of cynicism.

Edit : Maybe I wasn't clear, or intentionally vague. We didn't start off with Nidhogg. Some other LS claimed him along with darters. As they were fighting the darters, Nidhogg went yellow and another NA LS claimed. First LS MPKs second LS, most of our LS escapes but some remain in the pit, flails ensue and we ended up with a free Nidhogg on top of countless NA bodies. The details of our TP-happy nidhogg are completely irrelevant to the discussion here, but if it will appease... there you have it.

[Demitrius]

Mobs get huge TP from landing hits on your tanks. When we switched over to PLD/NIN we started getting way less WS spam. AA isn't bad, but it's also not nearly as reliable.