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  1. #1
    PUP Power!
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    PUP Improvements - Dec. Update 2006

    New Weaponskills:

    VE: Cannibal Blade - Melee Damage + drain
    SS: Daze - Ranged Attack + Stun Effect
    HQ/SW: Knockback - Melee Attack + Evasion down bonus

    Cannibal B requires a Dark Meanuver up. Daze requires a Thunder. Knockback will activate as long as Thunder is NOT up.

    Overall, the new weaponskills do exteremely nice damage and are consistent, no matter the mobs defense difference. I am hoping to try them on some HNMs to see if they have Nether Blast properties. Here's a sample damage from VT/IT Hilltop trolls.
    http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...upwsdamage.jpg
    Also, the Stormwalker's casting rate was reduced and now the Scanner will ensure it chain nukes every 15-20 secs with a nuke that targets an enemies' elemental weakness.

    Usukane...nuff said...

    PUP just keeps getting better and better :D

  2. #2
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Vyzrael has brought his pop to dynamis, proto omega, Salvage since the nerf, and will probably post his results here.

    He mentioned that the puppet has been pretty much healing itself and is now low maintenance in comparison to before (like when everyone was getting laser showered on omega, the pup in range was still at near full health after ws'ing).

  3. #3
    New Merits
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    The drain WS isnt being resisted at all, on anything. Xp mobs, nope. Besieged NMs, nope. Omega, nope. Salvage 5th floor NM, nope. Aside from about +/-10 dmg its always a 300/300 dmg + drain. I'll post specific results later about the other ones, I havent bothered to test them yet other than figuring out what maneuvers/burden trigger each as well as the damage caps.

    Cannibal Blade doesnt require a DM up, none of the new ones require specific maneuvers (0 maneuvers and they use the new ones by default). It actually seems to be tied to burden... I'll just copy over what I already tossed @ KI for now :

    Im running through just about every combo I can throw at each frame right now, and the WS it uses seems to be based on an average of whatever elements you have on it (possibly related to burden). It seems that SE has found a way to make PUP veer away from the old combos of FM FM FM/TM spam and actually improving the overall performance of the puppet. This also makes Overdrive actually worth it now (although it needs to last more than 30s) by making 1 maneuver = 3.

    It will Cannibal Blade @ full hp if no maneuvers are up, it will also Cannibal Blade with Earth/Wind/Light/Dark stacked up to 3x each. A single Fire maneuver will force Chimera Ripper and a single Thunder maneuver will trigger String Clipper, so if you're fire loaded you get chimera / thunder loaded you get string (this is actually the opposite of what it used to be, 3x FM spam would always use String Clipper). Dark seems like the overwriting maneuver for Cannibal Blade, but it will not overwrite 2 opposing maneuvers (2 FMs 1 DM and it still uses Chimera, etc.) Granted this is all initial testing and Im sure there will be some outlying examples / maneuvers wearing off mid test/ etc. so this isn't conclusive (yet).

    Daze functions the same way, but its only limited by one other possible WS so you only have to consider FMs. A single FM, or being "Fire loaded" will force Arcuballista, anything else and it will use Daze. We lucked out on Daze because it seems that Thunder acts as an overwriting maneuver, so you can FM/TM/LM (or WM) and it will still use Daze. What needs to be figured out now for each person is what WS you want and what other effects you want to maintain (flash, erase, etc.) while maximizing maneuver effects. I actually like what they did with this (short of not being able to FM FM FM + Daze) because it keeps performance up while minimizing overload and allowing you to utilize more of the puppet's abilities without sacrificing dmg.

    Edit : initial testing also seems to have Wind as the overwriting element for Knockout (Thunder loaded = Slapstick, TM + FM = Slapstick but TM + FM + WM = Knockout, etc.) Knockout is also the only one I've been able to trigger with multiple FMs.
    They arent random, I've already got it to the point where I can get each frame to use the predicted WS (as have several others here). Like I said, there are random outlying examples that will crop up (different mobs, various other overwriting maneuvers, etc.) but with all things being equal its 100% predictable. The problem is the fact that SE decided to not let us see our "burden", which is why it takes awhile to test every random combo. The casting time and debuff chain testing done months ago was very similar to this.

    Burden balance isnt static and dissipates over time so the only way to accurately test it is to do single maneuvers (when I referred to single fire and thunder maneuvers I forgot to specify that there were no other active maneuvers at the time and burden was 0). 1 FM and no other maneuvers (meaning fire is above everything else) will fire AB over Daze and Chimera Ripper over Cannibal Blade. 1 TM and no other maneuvers (meaning thunder is above everything else) will fire String Clipper over Cannibal Blade and Slapstick over Knockout. After several tests on each of these, the results havent changed.

    Each new weaponskill has a corresponding counter maneuver (possibly more than one, it might depend on its burden balance effect) that when matched with Fire or Thunder will allow the new WS to fire when they're used 1 to 1 (Wind allows Thunder for Knockout, Thunder allows Fire for Daze, Dark allows both Fire and Thunder for Cannibal). I dont doubt that people may randomly see 3 FMs fire Daze or something similar, but on the repeatable tests eliminating as many unknowns as possible it isnt happening (tried FM FM WM, WM FM FM and even FM WM WM multiple times, it was always AB). Mob type/level may play a part in its selection (T+ might shift its priority levels, it hasnt in besieged or dynamis testing so far), along with the puppet's obvious attempts to make a SC. Please do keep posting any random results though, this is the stuff that needs to be hashed out as Im sure SE left a few random bugs in (Attuner WS bug, etc.).
    Overall this patch was an insane boost to the job, it has borderline busted potential now with the gear + modifications.

    -Vyzrael (Asura)

  4. #4

    its still 'lol' because you can make it emote with you.

    from what i've seen of vyz using it (doofy) its been decent. the drain ws doesn't get resisted at all which is just nasty. the ranged ws was wicked powerful the few times i saw him use it and daze just looks nifty >.>

  5. #5

    Do we know what level these WS become available? Is it for 75 only or does the puppet learn them in the 50s or 60s?

  6. #6
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    Around lvl 50 I believe. The new attachments released this update (a magic accuracy one, one that sacrifices an earth manuever for a significant physical damage decrease) sound iffy but I will wait for my testing before shelling out an significant money. Still no cape to replace the Bellicose though

  7. #7
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    The casting attachments mean little to me (for now, soloing is done on thf and the nukes are still crap dmg) but this one caught my eye :

    Condenser (1 Water)
    May erase a Water Maneuver
    effect to prevent an overload

    Unless the wording means something completely different from what I'm thinking this basically flushes burden by using a water maneuver. This could come in very handy, unless it requires a water maneuver up constantly and will only trigger when/if you overload instead of having a "Use, flush, reset" effect. Some are already popping up on Asura, but yeah I wouldnt pay more than 100k for any of them until they're tested.

    -Vyzrael (Asura)

  8. #8
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    I agree Doofy about the Condensor's potential. Let's see how testing goes.

    Also, I wonder if the ENM drop rate was fixed as well as people have been complaning about that for such a long time. I hope to see people winning items every time but I am hopelessly optimistic. Still, what other job can say they can make 3 million from two solo 60 ENMs in ten days (attuner (900k) + drum magazine (900k) + target marker (1.2M) :D

  9. #9
    Ridill
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    My Sharpshot used Daze with 2x Fire 1x Wind, and my Valoredge used Cannibal Blade with Fire+Wind+Thunder and 1x Fire 2x Thunder.

    So those maneuvers aren't required, but they may increase the frequency.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Relic Weapons
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    Condenser (1 Water)
    May erase a Water Maneuver
    effect to prevent an overload

    Unless the wording means something completely different from what I'm thinking this basically flushes burden by using a water maneuver. This could come in very handy, unless it requires a water maneuver up constantly and will only trigger when/if you overload instead of having a "Use, flush, reset" effect. Some are already popping up on Asura, but yeah I wouldnt pay more than 100k for any of them until they're tested.
    The way it reads, it looks like you need the maneuver up at the time. If it was use flush reset, I personally would write it more as "Water Maneuver may remove Overload effect" or something.

    Perhaps that's just my semantics, god knows SE doesn't care about that kind of thing.

  12. #12
    Ridill
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    Just take one look at the Analyzer description and you'll know how much SE cares for clarity.

    It's not limited to PUP, either. There's a lot of things in the game on which SE could unleash a little clarity.


    For non-PUPs:
    (Analyzer: Increases chance of mitigating the effects of special attacks previously used by the enemy)

  13. #13
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
    Sepukku is my Hero
    Therrien's Cum Dumpster

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    still lolpup to me

  14. #14
    Relic Weapons
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    This is true, to this day I never bothered to find out what Analyzer actually did.

  15. #15
    Hydra
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    How are the pups doing in Salvage? Can they do the same as drgs and call thier pet before they enter, and still have them when in?

  16. #16
    Banned.
    Account locked at request of user.

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    I can no longer count the amount of PUPs on my entire server on two hands. There are now eleven of them.

  17. #17
    Pandemonium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goso
    How are the pups doing in Salvage? Can they do the same as drgs and call thier pet before they enter, and still have them when in?
    yes, they're pretty good damage in salvage until you get up a floor or two and the normal melees get their gear unlocked.

    One of our pups inexplicably lost his auto when going up a floor (we had another pup with us and he didn't lose his) which was the only downside. Otherwise, they're probably the best initial melee in salvage.

  18. #18
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa
    still lolpup to me
    I see pup as thief now.

    On one hand there's the thfs that use squid sushi and double harpe (WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY) at 75, and on the other hand there's the thief who is meat/acc build/strong mainhand - low delay offhand at 75.

    Now there's the pup that is in full AF1 and doesn't get all the attatchments because they're expensive, or there's pups like Vyzrael who understands his role is less important than his pet's role, so he gets all the attatchments for it, but focuses on the puppet's gear before his own.

    Vyz is my ls's lolpup and it's fun to see it pop out every now and then He's our TH3 too, but recently I just yoink his thief knife so he can have some lolpup fun.

  19. #19
    PUP Power!
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    When I bring PUP to events like sea and sky, I find that I work even better when I stay on the sidelines and carefully put up manuevers while Serenade attacks the mob. That way, while she is doing her thing, I can know when to use a Repair, put up Dark for Cannibal Blade, use Earth manuevers after a nasty attack, or use Flashbulb to flash a mob. I think after this update, more than ever, a master's role has become firmly established to let the maton do the work on the mobs while you manipulate. A master should only melee when the maton is down in order to be somewhat useful until the timer is back up (hence, the whole "fall back on hand to hand techniques")

    BTW

    Poof has returned to invade the KI PUP forums and convince others how wonderful she is:

    have an ego cause I don't care? I posted the info as a personal reference that others could use. It doesnt bother me who takes advantage of it or doesn't. I give PUP a bad name? If there was a list of the "3 best PUPs" on the server, I think I'd be one of them

    I've helped a couple dozen people unlocked this job now and they absolutely love it. If they take it to 75, that'll put the majority of the 75 PUP population in my favor, half of them in my linkshell. Then again, half of just about any job is in my LS lol.

    Anywho, I play PUP because its adorable and fun. Doesn't have the biggest numbers but its versatility and the intelligence and mindfulness required to play it well make it exciting and break the monotony that follows every other job. However, the fact that it bothers Toth that I play PUP; I consider that a bonus
    /sigh

    Edit: oh and she is PUP52/RDM 26, the same she has been for two months. Flame the bitch please

  20. #20
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
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    He's also a little upset that I'm just generally worth more than he is and more valued than he is. You see, this is Toth's first RPG. He feels as if he's got to make up for being out of the loop for the passed 20 years by attacking those of us who started playing Final Fantasy back in 1987.
    This was the most stupid assumption/statement I have ever seen. (I hate Poof so much and I'm not even on his/her/its server.) Poof is hated so much that someone mentioned their hatred of him/her/it on the Nuklear Power forums...

    Anyway, I have a question: How are automatons affected by the Pathos of Alzadaal? Do they get any restrictions themselves?

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