DA job trait

[Tekki]

Past threads on other forums, or any other linkable information proving that DA trait merits DO NOT activate o DO activate as /war. Is there any numbers or discussions anywhere withh information that doesnt just settle on the "look at all other traits/abilites" argument.

Discussion came up in the LS and I want to see numbers. Im convinced that you can't but someone else is convinced otherwise after his parcing results show him getting so many more swings as nin/war and mnk/war. He isn't saying "this is the facts" Hes just trying to explain why he seems to get very noticable amount more swings then someone else. So he came up with this theory. Of course its easily debunked by showing how every other Job exclusive merit doesn't work in this way. But its also easier to prove it others don't work. Hence Im looking for any DA evidence threads or info.

[Lordwafik]

Job Specific merits all vanish at lvl 74.

[Tekki]

Ya i know, lol thats not the point of the thread XD

[NynJa]

he's saying he gets more swings as mnk/war or nin/war over his war/nin ??



mnk/nin using destroyers:
300+48 base delay
12+5+5% Haste (BB, Turban, Byakko)
348 * .78 = 271.44 delay (I hope this calculation is right)


nin/war using Senji/Unji:
428 delay pre-DW
DW Traits+Suppa = 35% reduction = 278.2 delay
5+5+3+2+4 Haste (Turban, Byakko, Dusk Hands, Feet, Swift Belt) = 225.342 delay (I hope again this is right, can go lower w/ AF body)


war/nin using woods/joyeuse (I assume this is the best TP gain option short of ridill):
512 base delay pre-DW
DW Traits+Suppa = 20% reduction = 409.6 delay
5+5+3+2+4 Haste (Turban, Byakko, Dusk Hands, Feet, Swift Belt) = 331.776 delay (If the other two are right, this should be right too!)




I hope that answers your question.

[Tekki]

He has NIN and MNK at 75. Hes convinced something is up becuase his parser results show so many more swings over other players with similar gear/merits/ of the same job in PTs.

Its not just some stupid claim either, this is all he does, exp. hes just entertaining an idea.

[Delekii]

So he is saying that his double attack kicks in more on his NIN/WAR than another NIN/WAR without WAR specific job merits?

I seriously, seriously doubt it. I can almost remember it specifically saying that the job catagories do not carry over, and only work when the job is 75. If DA merits worked they would be the only example of such a merit to do so.

[Obev]

If this were true, my cure cast merits should carry over to my Bard, Summoner and Red Mage, no? That'd be serious fast cast business, but I doubt it works like that.

Job-specific ability and trait merits are only active when that job is at 75. So you can merit the crap out of Elemental Seal as 75 Black Mage, but not get any reduction as a job subbing that. Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, lolwarcry merits do nothing on jobs other than 75 Warrior.

It would be very strange if Double Attack was any different to the other meritable abilities. Then again, the other commonly-merited multiple attack traits, kicks and triple attacks, aren't available from subjob.

[Tekki]

Couldn't agree more, and he also understands the same concept. We just want proof so we can eliinate some reasons he blows people out of the water.

edit: the most obvious reason, I told him, was that players very well could be lying about their merits. (Assuming they said they have the same)

[cassiraa]

Only way to test for sure is to find a parser that can accurately and reliably parse Double Attack % and test it for an extended period.

The Merit Moogle says that job specific merits apply only to the jobs their on, however anything aside from the aforementioned test is just "I think" or "well this merit acts this way."

[Koyangi]

10% is still 10%. If I do 500 swings in 5 minutes or 1000 swings in 5 minutes 10% of those swings would DA, I will see more accounts of double attack with 1000 because 10% of 1000 > 10% of 500.

[Tekki]

We plan on just comparing double attack %s of two characters by hitting the same amount of rounds on high HP mob, w/ no melee gear. One character having /war (With lvl 75 merits) and another /war with 0 merits (like me, my war is only 37)

[Zilong]

Im convinced that you can't but someone else is convinced otherwise after his parcing results show him getting so many more swings as nin/war and mnk/war.

Could be just him getting to the mob first.

If you are the one calling the shot on choosing which mob is next, you do have that advantage of having the first few shots before everyone else.

[Tekki]

Its a bigger gap them that he thinks. That very thing came up.

[Palin]

Berserk recast doesn't carry over to any other job, why in gods name would he think that DA merits, from the same category from the same job, are any different? Find a different theory, from the sounds of it he's already convinced, and no matter what the data is he's going to interpret it to favor what he wants it to.

[RKenshin]

I exp a lot as well, and parse and save just about every PT. I'm pretty sure it's just in his head and it's all about the attack speed.

NIN and MNK do tend to get a lot more swings then even Ridill WARs with haste builds, sometimes by large gaps. In addition, NIN and WAR tend to just flat out double attack more often because of how much faster they swing (by that I mean like, 10% of 1000 attacks is larger than 10% of 500 attacks).

It's just attack speed creating the illusion of having a higher DA percent.

EDIT: Example parse just to illustrate how big the difference in total # of swings can be.
http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/7...vthfwartx8.jpg

Looking at the M.Ht/Ms (amount of hits/misses), the WAR/NIN using Man/Joy with 2 DA merits and Brutal has a total of 1119 swings, while me as a NIN/WAR using a Brutal had a total of 2485 swings.

[Zetah]

It's just the attack speed, and it makes sense. If you swing a LOT more, there's the possibility of simply double attacking more. Not because the double attack rate is higher, but because there's more opportunities for it to happen.

[Swatt]

I exp a lot as well, and parse and save just about every PT. I'm pretty sure it's just in his head and it's all about the attack speed.

NIN and MNK do tend to get a lot more swings then even Ridill WARs with haste builds, sometimes by large gaps. In addition, NIN and WAR tend to just flat out double attack more often because of how much faster they swing (by that I mean like, 10% of 1000 attacks is larger than 10% of 500 attacks).

It's just attack speed creating the illusion of having a higher DA percent.

EDIT: Example parse just to illustrate how big the difference in total # of swings can be.
http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/7...vthfwartx8.jpg

Looking at the M.Ht/Ms (amount of hits/misses), the WAR/NIN using Man/Joy with 2 DA merits and Brutal has a total of 1119 swings, while me as a NIN/WAR using a Brutal had a total of 2485 swings.

i stopped looking at 49%

[LinktheDeme]

job specific merits do not travel to other jobs even if you sub then, i tested this with sharpshot recast on rng. put one merit in recast did shapshot as rng was 4:50, switched back to nin/rng did sharp shot recast was 5:00

[Coldone]

If your outdamaging the war by over 21%... imo that has to be a pretty gimp war.

[Rocl]

If your outdamaging the war by over 21%... imo that has to be a pretty gimp war.

Rukenshin out damages everyone by over 20%. (Even on Puppetmaster)