Dusk gloves question(s)

[Karinastar]

I use Unicorn, but as Ruk said your mileage may vary. I also have a fair amount less HP in exp gear than he does and I tend to party with friends who know about the latent, and the combination of the two tends to keep me in white failry reliably. If all you do is pickups and you have a high base HP that mages won't keep full you'd get better mileage out of Dusk.

[Saito]

HQ dusk >>>>> anything NQ dusk > anything. End of lesson.

[Stilgar]

HQ dusk >>>>> anything NQ dusk > anything. End of lesson.

best evidence ever.

[SassiAsura]

Dusk feet, Dusk gloves on War and soon to be Nin. I'd settle for nothing less.

[Tordall]

Haste makes a bigger difference if you have more of it.

If you have 10% haste, then you'll do 10/9 the damage you'ld ordinarally do, e.g. about 11% more. If you have 20% haste, then you'll do 5/4 the damage you'ld normally do, e.g. 25% more damage.

Same thing with dual weild gear for ninja, except you start with more of it, so without haste/march you get a bigger damage boost with dual weild gear than with haste gear.

E.g. if you're going to go for +haste gear, go all out, don't mix & match.

IMHO the only peices of gear that there should be any question about is your body slot. Haub(+1)/SH(+1)/P. body + meat or AF(+1) body + sushi.

As has already been mentioned, the 'death by 1000 papercuts' build is fairly dependant on a bard to really shine, but it's at least even with a pure +atk build without one.

[Falaras]

As has already been mentioned, the 'death by 1000 papercuts' build is fairly dependant on a bard to really shine, but it's at least even with a pure +atk build without one.

Best name ever

[pimpp]

Haste makes a bigger difference if you have more of it.

If you have 10% haste, then you'll do 10/9 the damage you'ld ordinarally do, e.g. about 11% more. If you have 20% haste, then you'll do 5/4 the damage you'ld normally do, e.g. 25% more damage.

Same thing with dual weild gear for ninja, except you start with more of it, so without haste/march you get a bigger damage boost with dual weild gear than with haste gear.

E.g. if you're going to go for +haste gear, go all out, don't mix & match.

IMHO the only peices of gear that there should be any question about is your body slot. Haub(+1)/SH(+1)/P. body + meat or AF(+1) body + sushi.

As has already been mentioned, the 'death by 1000 papercuts' build is fairly dependant on a bard to really shine, but it's at least even with a pure +atk build without one.

then u add in 15% crit from senj/rai and merits(and 30+ dex) and a large percent of those papercuts turn into respectable hits.

[Eddie]

I've been reading some SAM forums and i'm pretty pumped on Haste build myself.

Even if I just have Fuma, W. Turban, Dusk + Hasso. Heard it's pretty fun.

I wanna go after a Soboro aswell, I heard that's just a blast!

Can't wait!

[SassiAsura]

I've been reading some SAM forums and i'm pretty pumped on Haste build myself.

Even if I just have Fuma, W. Turban, Dusk + Hasso. Heard it's pretty fun.

I wanna go after a Soboro aswell, I heard that's just a blast!

Can't wait!

What belt do you use?

[Eddie]

I don't wear anything haste at the moment, only 71.

Currently Life Belt for TP, Warwolf for WS.

I'd like swift belt but ya know...

[Suiram]

As long as there's already a topic about this, is movement with both dusk gloves and w. legs equipped equal to -12%, +12% or normal speed?

[Eddie]

I doubt it's + or - 12%. It's either even, or somewhere higher or lower.

[pimpp]

As long as there's already a topic about this, is movement with both dusk gloves and w. legs equipped equal to -12%, +12% or normal speed?

never worn dusk on my rng, lewlz. ill check it out after this exp pt but im assuming its even bc dusk is supposed to be -12% and thats about what it feels like.

[draxyl]

What Palin said is what I've honestly noticed too, the total damage you get is gonna be slightly higher with the O kote from my experience, but I prefer to stick with the Dusk for the slight Utsusemi recast. In situations where I wouldn't be stuck having to recast Utsusemi alot (like in Dynamis), I would use the kote while tping, but in XP I stick with the Dusk fulltime during the day (Koga Tekko at night obviously).

I just sold my Kote though recently since I dropped leveling my SAM, and upgraded NIN Tekko for my daytime WS piece.

My standard haste is 20% Day/21% night if that matters at all in this argument.

I actually average slightly higher average WS on ninja with O kote than my af hands+1...obviously your mileage will vary though because you're galka. The difference is fairly small, and this is comparing off a base of +32 str +28 dex (no food, no hands). Meh...I still use the +1 hands sometimes just because I bothered to upgrade them. Maybe I need to go level /rng....

I actually haven't compared TP'ing in o kote vs. dusk hands, I've always used dusk since I dinged 72 on nin. If you can hit the haste gear cap, or close to it (say 20%) I'd think O kote would look even better for TP.

[tornfleshofsoul]

Buy my dusk gloves+1... no one else will ; ;

[Tordall]

I actually bought a pair of dusk gloves+1 fairly recently. IMO they're one of the _last_ things that you should get as a ninja b/c there are so many other things that give you a bigger performance boost for the money.

On my server the 'fair' price is considered around 40 mil (not saying what I got mine for, but it was a substantial discount from that, let's just say I wasn't expecting my offer to be accepted, and probably would have bought a speed belt first if I was paying full price), with things like Haub+1 being more like 6-7 mil, and Snipper's+1 at 10-12 mil etc. For reference speed belt is also considered 'fair' at 40 mil.

The speed belt & dusk gloves+1 are the last 2 upgrades most people do, not because they arn't great and clearly an improvement over the next step down (dusk gloves or swift belt), but because they're hugely costly over the 'NQ' versions.

So..let's consider the typical high-end 'death by 1000 papercuts' build (TP portion only):

Weapon: S/F
Throwing: Bomb core
Head: W. Turban
Neck: PCC
Ear: Suppa/Brutal
Body: AF/AF+1/Haub/Koga/SH
Hands: Dusk
Rings: Raja's/Snipper's
Back: Amemt+1/Forgers
Waist: Swift Belt
Legs: Byakko's Hiadate
Feet: Fuma's

On my server, the upgrade path should be: Haub to Haub+1 for meat build for 5-6 mil (+2.5 acc, +2.5 atk), AF to AF+1 for very little for sushi build (+2.5 acc). Bomb Core to Fire Bomblet for 5-6 mil (-6 atk +6 acc), Snippers to Snipper's+1 or Torreodor's for 10-11 mil (+2 acc), Swift belt -> Speed belt for 40 mil (+2 haste -3 acc +5 atk), and finally dusk gloves to dusk gloves+1 for 40 mil (+1 haste +1 atk).

=----------edit to address the subject at hand-----------

As for an atk build vs. a haste build. They are very comperable if you arn't getting buffs or eating food. My haste build has 21% haste, 384 base atk, 1 level of enhances dual weild and enough +acc to eat meat in any meritpo camp except those involving mamool ja and wyverns (dang +eva buffs). I'm a hume with 5 str merits. One of my friends is an elvaan with 5 str merits and perfers an atk build. His base str is 10 more than mine and his gear gives him another 10 str ontop of what I use. He's got 13% haste, 430ish base atk and enough accuracy to eat meat at most meritpo camps, but his accuracy drops by 5-6%.

If we arnt' buffed our damage output is very similiar, his might even exceed mine. However, in merit situations I get a much larger benefit from haste, food and songs. The difference in our atk drops, so he has less of advantage from that, but the benefit I get from my additional haste is actually improved by the haste and/or march (hopefully and) that I'm getting from the party. So I end up parsing better in xp.

[Krandor]

What Palin said is what I've honestly noticed too, the total damage you get is gonna be slightly higher with the O kote from my experience, but I prefer to stick with the Dusk for the slight Utsusemi recast. In situations where I wouldn't be stuck having to recast Utsusemi alot (like in Dynamis), I would use the kote while tping, but in XP I stick with the Dusk fulltime during the day (Koga Tekko at night obviously).

I just sold my Kote though recently since I dropped leveling my SAM, and upgraded NIN Tekko for my daytime WS piece.

My standard haste is 20% Day/21% night if that matters at all in this argument.

I actually average slightly higher average WS on ninja with O kote than my af hands+1...obviously your mileage will vary though because you're galka. The difference is fairly small, and this is comparing off a base of +32 str +28 dex (no food, no hands). Meh...I still use the +1 hands sometimes just because I bothered to upgrade them. Maybe I need to go level /rng....

I actually haven't compared TP'ing in o kote vs. dusk hands, I've always used dusk since I dinged 72 on nin. If you can hit the haste gear cap, or close to it (say 20%) I'd think O kote would look even better for TP.

I'm actually 100% aware that O kote give a better WS average then the AF+1 hands, but having cancelled leveling my SAM the value of O kote vs. 15 ABCs was enough to make me want to pawn off the kote.

I'm sure we do get slightly different overall returns since I have capped Katana merits, so I'm obviously sitting on a higher base attack. My WS build for sushi is something around 406 attack, 74+32 STR and 70+34 DEX, not counting hands (be it AF+1 or AF2) and before the stat bonuses from sushi.

[Chupunpupun]

I don't know what economy you're living in. Dusk glove+1 is like 27mil on my server and speed belt is like 16mil. And even then, people have a hard time selling them.

[Tordall]

The only pair of dusk gloves+1 that's publicly for sale on my server right now is about 50 mil. They arn't selling though b/c it's too high.

I'm not aware of any speed belts that are being sold other than from RMTs.

[Falaras]

Yeah Dusk Gloves+1 are about 50m and Speed 28-30m on pandy. Uber expensive but its a rare haste item and has the right to be.