Warrior Merits

[Naver]

I've been debating with myself over which WAR merit setup seems to be more useful or advantageous. For the sake of typing and being lazy: Zerk/Aggr/DoubleA will be my format.

As of now I use 4/4/2. I've heard from a lot of great WARs that 5/5/0 is the only setup i should go by, but then I also heard 3/3/4 is better. I can see losing 20secs off Zerk and Agg for 2% more DA seems worth it, but then again having 20secs more of Zerk and Agg is too.

Also if you want to talk about secondary merits such as Warrior's Charge, Savagery etc go for it. I wanted to aim for 3/3 Warrior's Charge, and 3/3 Savagery. Tomahawk and Agressive Aim don't appeal to me much.

Please leave me some feedback as to which merit setup and why you chose it. I would love to better my WAR through learning from others setups, but due to the fact I have many other merits to obtain, I don't want to lose time rearranging my WAR merits.

[Bkbahamut]

Zerk/Agg/DA

3/3/4 FTW

Couple secs more you have to wait for zerk and aggressor, either way ur not gonna have that all the time. More double attack means TP faster, and better rampages, or a bigger chance at least. Max Double attack, then 3 and 3 zerk/agg.

[Erza]

/que warcry merit posts

[Khalil]

/que warcry merit posts

Takedown is offended by this.

[Priran]

in after warcry

[StaplerGuy]

I was coming in here with the sole intent to post something about Warcry merits.

Guess I was beaten to the punch. IAW.

EDIT: I can spell Warcry, I swear.

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

Also if you want to talk about secondary merits such as Warrior's Charge, Savagery etc go for it. I wanted to aim for 3/3 Warrior's Charge, and 3/3 Savagery. Tomahawk and Agressive Aim don't appeal to me much.

Tomahawk is a whole lot more useful than Warrior's Charge, lolSavagery and Aggr. Aim and only takes 3 merits really since the so called "DEF down" effect is pretty much worthless and only situational (it works against the Jailer of Temperance removing the annoying damage types resistance, that's it), therefore you wouldn't want to upgrade it further anyway; once you have it unlocked you basically get a new hate tool that generates less hate than voke but definately more than a 5 people-hitting Warcry, on a 3 minutes timer.

Tomahawk doesn't rely on RAcc. or Throwing skill and lands with 100% accuracy on pretty much everything (the only time it's been resisted was against an Assault Booth or w/e during Besieged), HNM included, acts like an instant /ja (you get hate and eventually claim on a mob the moment you click on it, regardless what the ranged attack-like animation shows, the mob's name turns red even if the throwing axe hasn't reached the target yet), does not require engaging, doesn't wake up slept mobs, can be used while running and even while not facing the mob as long as you stay in range at the cost of a bunch of dirty cheap tools (about 30k/stack in Nashmau) that can be swap'ped with Bomb Core back and forth without losing TP.

If you're tanking/kiting/voking slept mobs (like in Dynamis where it allows you to get the attention of two mobs in the matter of a few seconds) it helps a lot, I upgraded it right after cap'ping Warrior's Charge and didn't regret it yet.

They could have named it Provoke II and nobody would have noticed the difference, I'm glad they've been creative though, throwing stuff at mobs looks pretty cool lol.

My set up for Group 2 Warrior merits however is #3 Warrior's Charge, #2 Savagery (because there wasn't really anything else worth upgrading after unlocking Toma) and #1 Tomahawk and worked very well so far.

Oh and #5 Aggressor/Zerk of course, being a Ridill wielder and someone that used Warrior as his main HNM job for a while.

[Pro]

5/5/0 ftw. I had DA merits, but removed them for this setup and I am very pleased w/the results.

As far as secondary merits I went 3WC/3Tomahawk....never used tomahawk tho >_>;

[Jememy]

Oh and #5 Aggressor/Zerk of course, being a Ridill wielder and someone that used Warrior as his main HNM job for a while.

I like the 5/5 too, I've tried 3/3/4 with a Ridill and the DA is useless. I prefer to have an attack and accuracy bonus sooner.

[Chupunpupun]

Being an axe/axe wielder and occasional GS/GA user, I opted for 0/5/5. I try to stagger my zerk and agg so I can have one on at all times and having agg's recast @1:10 helps alot. Full time Ridill user probably benefit from 5/5/0 because they don't really need the extra double attack.

[Starr]

5 Warcry
5 Defender
?????
Profit

[Scorp]

I never honestly expected to end up with a ridill so I went 5 into DA and planned 2/3 into agg/zerk to go with 4 axe merits.

I have now got Ridill and dropped to 3/3 with 4 in double attack. Its obviously effective but it is hard to tell if it is the best set up and I am not keen on junking 4 merits putting them into 5/5 agg/zerk to find out there is no difference.

On a similar note I hear conflicting opinions on Brutal earring with Ridill. At the moment I have +9% DA onto my base and lack the mathmatical will to work out if I am robbing myself of extra attacks (assuming average occurs).

[Palin]

Double Zerk and Aggressor is supperior than any form of DA merits, even for Axe/Axe. With Agg on such a low cooldown, your ability to eat meats is increased. I used to be 4/3/3, but I changed to 5/5, and every time I put more merits into Zerk/Agg I saw my parser results increase. 5/5 is also best for HNM WAR, and since you have prio on Ridill Naver, it'd be a waste to put merits into DA.

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

Searain :
[quote:11e2a]Kaylia :

Nah, it's just that DA won't proc when Ridill multihit proc. Normally, you have something close to 33% 1 hit, 33% 2 hits and 33% 3 hits. Because double attack can only proc on the "1 hit", it's going to work like 1.6% of the time instead of 5% (for ridill hand). It's not bad, but benefit will be nowhere near a pure 5% increase.

These are interesting informations and it sounds like a plausible theory, would you mind to explain us how you got to these conclusions though? From what I've seen it could just be the other way around, with DA having some kind of priority over Ridill multi hits, hence the "DA weakening Ridill" rumor, although confirming this would require more accurate tests and some calculations to grant mathematical certainty.

Anyhow, have you ever thought of testing Ridill multi-hits proc. rate using Warrior's Charge to simulate a 100% DA chance on the next round of hits?

Unless the Double attack trait acts differently from the Job Ability (and that'd be hard to prove either way, I guess) but

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/617...eattackgn3.jpg

The only difference I see between "May double" and "Will double" is the processing rate.
[/quote:11e2a]

Kaylia :
[quote:11e2a]These are interesting informations and it sounds like a plausible theory, would you mind to explain us how you got to these conclusions though? From what I've seen it could just be the other way around, with DA having some kind of priority over Ridill multi hits, hence the "DA weakening Ridill" rumor, although confirming this would require more accurate tests and some calculations to grant mathematical certainty.

Well, if it's the other way around and ridill is 33%/33%/33%, it means you will attack an average of 2 hits round, in which case, double attack would simply do nothing when it proc (double attack is 2hits too). In the worst case, double would just not change anything.

DA still work the same on WS since multihit, and your first hand will benefit from it as well. Either way, zerk/aggressor are much better for a completely different reason then the "nerfed" double attack with ridill

I'm going to go test later with Warrior's charge to make sure what proc first. Wish I had that skill merited, cause it's gonna be a pain >_>
[/quote:11e2a]

Searain :
[quote:11e2a]Kaylia :

Well, if it's the other way around and ridill is 33%/33%/33%, it means you will attack an average of 2 hits round, in which case, double attack would simply do nothing when it proc (double attack is 2hits too). In the worst case, double would just not change anything.

DA still work the same on WS since multihit, and your first hand will benefit from it as well.

That's pretty much what I thought even though I'm not completely sure about the "33-33-33" distribution of Ridill attacks, I haven't tested it myself yet (as in I haven't gathered data on paper) but I used my Ridill for months and it seems about right, leaving aside the fact that those numbers are acknowledged as true or really close to truth on the most popular message boards about FFXI (which cannot be taken as evidence but it's an info that can't be completely ignored either).

Anyway I understand perfectly your point, currently I have #5 Zerk, #5 Aggressor (after having #5 DA and subsequently #5 DA + #5 Zerk after merits revamp since I've been an Axe/Axe Warrior for a while and actually a great fan of DA gear and merits with that set up) simply due to the fact that they ehnance my performances against HNM and during events where Warrior DD-tanking really matters more than a mere +5% DA would do and also because probably I wouldn't truely benefit of those increased chances of double attacking while off-handing a Ridill and even moreso when using Rid/Joy combo;

Kaylia :
I'm going to go test later with Warrior's charge to make sure what proc first. Wish I had that skill merited, cause it's gonna be a pain >_>

Don't. I spent the last few hours online testing it myself; the test was rather simple, just a bit annoying and time consuming due to the lame Warrior's Charge cooldown (stuck @ 10 minutes even fully merit'ed) and also because my concern was being able to do the largest possible number of tests in a row without logging out or anything.

So, long story short, instead of afk'ing at Whitegate AH while studying for my next exam I just got a Tele Vahzl, picked the first mob in sight (a Demon Pawn that pops every 7 or so minutes near the telepoint) and did my thing: first, I unequip'ped everything but Ridill and a few pieces of Hecatomb gear (I just wanted a bit of slow%+ to separate as much as possible the first 2 consecutive rounds of hits), then I engaged while not facing the mob, used Warrior's Charge, hit, turned, took a screenshot, went afk for 10 minutes and repeated everything sixtyeight times, 50 or so during the first day and the rest a couple days after.

I didn't have any buff on me ('cept Warrior's Charge, of course) or any particular kind of food, just shadows from Utsusemi at times.

What were the results? Well, I haven't seen a single Triple Attack going off while being under the effect of Warrior's Charge (which should have simulated, like mentioned above, a 100% DA chance), only 2x attacks like you can clearly notice taking a look at these screenshots. Don't mind my MSpaint please, I was extremely bored while doing this test lol.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1627/w ... altgp2.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3880/w ... ol2jv2.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/440/wa ... ol3dt0.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/543/ ... ol4am9.jpg

So, even though we don't know for sure if DA trait and Warrior's Charge work the same way (although it seems a more than likely conclusion) therefore there's still room for the skeptics, this test should give some consistency to the theory that stated that DA overwrites Ridill multi-attacks and to a certain extent it confirms that DA gear/merits/trait don't ehnance/back up in any way Ridill multi hit proc rate. Ridill just tends to attack twice more (and Triple attack less) the stronger your Double attack ehnancements are.

And that's all; once again, I apologize for my rusty engRish, I hope everything written above was comprehensible.

EDIT: Fixing links, they weren't working.
[/quote:11e2a]

This was me and Kaylia talking about the DA + Ridill subject a while ago on KI;

point is that probably DA doesn't affect in any way Ridill multi hit proc rate (as in it doesn't change the total # of hits and even if it does it's going to be a minimal ehnancement, depending on Ridill multi hits % distribution) but still makes the Axe in your main hand (which hits a lot less times than your sword though) hit a little more times and increases slightly your WS average numbers

however,

since you have a limited amount of upgrades available, why trying to add even more double attacks instead of giving more chances of landing (a.k.a. upgrading Aggressor) and more strenght (Zerk merits docet) to the multi attacks naturally generated by your Ridill (and innate DA trait) considering that they're already a truckload and also keeping in mind that you're going to swing a weapon with relatively low skill even when fully merited?

Seems like a waste to me but fate vobis. :P

Post Scriptum: for the same reasons I prefer using Assault/Ethereal (depending on the situation, target and food choice) earring, along with my inseparable Suppa, instead of Brutal for my TP gear set-up.

[Naver]

On a side note, does each Savagery merit add 10tp to your Warcry? IE: 30tp for 3/3 Savagery?

In any case, thanks for the advice everyone. I think I'll go with 5/5/0. Time to save up 5 more merits and kill 3 merits. lol

[Plow]

I've been debating with myself over which WAR merit setup seems to be more useful or advantageous. For the sake of typing and being lazy: Zerk/Aggr/DoubleA will be my format.

As of now I use 4/4/2. I've heard from a lot of great WARs that 5/5/0 is the only setup i should go by, but then I also heard 3/3/4 is better. I can see losing 20secs off Zerk and Agg for 2% more DA seems worth it, but then again having 20secs more of Zerk and Agg is too.

Also if you want to talk about secondary merits such as Warrior's Charge, Savagery etc go for it. I wanted to aim for 3/3 Warrior's Charge, and 3/3 Savagery. Tomahawk and Agressive Aim don't appeal to me much.

Please leave me some feedback as to which merit setup and why you chose it. I would love to better my WAR through learning from others setups, but due to the fact I have many other merits to obtain, I don't want to lose time rearranging my WAR merits.

I'm not posting this to say you should have found it, it was a bitch for me to find and I posted it. Just letting you know it's there.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewto ... &start=449

there's some useful responses to your question for a few pages after my post

Everyone should read that entire thread at some point btw.

[Kaylia]

5aggressor/5berserk for everything. In xp party, I'm almost certain 5DA would be better, but on HNM or anything that really matter, you will find those 2 merit priceless.



If you don't have any other job and your warrior is used as SaTa whore on HNM, go for level 3 Warrior's charge. Otherwise, 1 level is more than enough for the occasional epeen rampage/steelcyclone you will be doing.

I found tomahawk pretty useful, even if I dont really use it often. I only have 1 merit in it, but 2 would probably be enough for most fight against elemental, limbus mobs, big bird and the like. It also has a nice hate generation I believe since I often turn the mobs with that skill

Savalgery isn't that bad at level 3, but chance is there is better merit to waste in other place. If everything else is capped for war, you can come back to finish those

[Chupunpupun]

5aggressor/5berserk for everything. In xp party, I'm almost certain 5DA would be better, but on HNM or anything that really matter, you will find those 2 merit priceless.



If you don't have any other job and your warrior is used as SaTa whore on HNM, go for level 3 Warrior's charge. Otherwise, 1 level is more than enough for the occasional epeen rampage/steelcyclone you will be doing.

I found tomahawk pretty useful, even if I dont really use it often. I only have 1 merit in it, but 2 would probably be enough for most fight against elemental, limbus mobs, big bird and the like. It also has a nice hate generation I believe since I often turn the mobs with that skill

Savalgery isn't that bad at level 3, but chance is there is better merit to waste in other place. If everything else is capped for war, you can come back to finish those

Well there isn't anything other than warrior charge, so 3/3 on it is the best.

[Kaylia]

Tomahawk and Salvagery are not "bad". I would rather have a 45sec tomahawk than a 10min warrior's charge. WS dmg count for 33% of your total dmg (true for axe/axe and ridill/axe), and warrior charge is going to increase by 15% something close to 7-10% of your WS. In the end, upgrading it from 15min to 10min is going to change your dmg input by less than 0.25% or something like this, that's less than "1 acc".


I've no clue what's the impact of 20-30tp is on rampage, but giving 20-30tp to your whole pt for 1WS can't be that bad, at least compared to the dmg increase of warrior's charge

[Falaras]

Why have I never seen anyone with the Warcry TP+10 thing? It seems pretty decent for a T2 merit.