Political jabber

[Kuya]

I wanted to hear the opinions of some americans or anybody else from the world, because this is the least we hear about here. Recently it became public here that Puerto Rico is in fact a colony, a fact the goverment was hitting by simply saying we are a free country but with ties to America. It was even found by the UN that we are technicaly a colony. A lot of people here are divided because some want independance, others statehood, and the rest want us to remain a colony, but with more liberties.

We have 3 parties, and the one who prefers us to be a colony is currently in power (ironicaly they are the republicans of PR and they have been in power around the same time George Bush has), they are called the PPD. The other parties PNP(pro american) and PIP(radicaly anti american).The major problem here is, all 3 parties only ever focus on the status of PR. What i mean to say is, everything else is ignored, education, economy, ect, and they only speak of if PR should be a colony, state, independant country. It is the opinion of many here that they are using these issues to blind the general public to the real issues, and nothing ever gets done. This place is fucking brimming with political fanaticism because of this act and PR is currently at the point of collapse.

Another problem is the fact that we probably can't survive as a independant country because we wouln't know how to take care of ourselves. PR has never been free, weve been in the hands of Spain, and then the US, so we got no experience ruling ourselves. This existence as a colony has subconciusly created population that is fully dependant on the goverment and has no inner strength. So it would be a gamble if we became a republic, and we can't continue to be a colony because at this day an age, a colony just cant survive. The third option would be to become a state, but most puertorricans fear we would lose our identity as PR, and eventually be forced to speak english(the US tried to create a law long ago where only english could be spoken, but the public refused), so as you can see people here are quite stubborn, if anything at all.

Now for general bits of information: We are whats classified as US territory, we are eligible for a draft, if there ever is one. We dont pay federal taxes, but because this place does not tax foreigh businesses, our local business cannot compete with the american ones. We cannot vote for the president, and have no representation in congress(this is a problem, because if PR becomes a state, we would be the state with the largest population per area(need to verify)). The fact that we can't vote for the president irritates us because we have to follow orders from someone we did not vote for(people here hate Bush, probably more than you guys do). The FBI tends to treat the general public with disdain, and they seem to feel they can do whatever they want here. Thou we're practicaly the best vacational resource america has, the inside of the island is ripe with violence and criminality (blame this on the goverment that does nothing). I think we used to be a valueble military staging point for the US, but im not so sure they need us at the moment, so alot of people think we are disposable to the US now.

What i want to see is the opinion of some americans, what they think we should do, or what their goverment should do, because the goverment always tells us America wants us to be a colony for them, and that we are very very valuable to them, somethign we bealive to be total bull.

[Falconblade]

Its all a gamble at this point.

Before I begin, im going to state this right now.
I have never researched this, this is from purely reasoning and thinking. This may very well be all wrong. So take everything here with a grain of salt.

You said it yourself, you cant run as a free country because you have no experience(However, you could make a case that this doesnt matter, many colonies have had no experience and went on to lead respectable countries). Probably the highest chance of decline for the country.

Colony could stay as it is, it wont prosper, it wont fall. Be in more of a stasis.

State has probably the most chance of overall turmoil, but probably a better chance of prosperity over decline.

My opinion? Dont become an independant. Atleast, not at this time. Wait for the world to calm down a bit. Because if you do, there will be alot of fighting probably. You would probably need to call upon some allies to help, and with everyone a little wary about the world, I dont know if many would aid.

State is probably the best option overall.

[Kuya]

Its all a gamble at this point.

Before I begin, im going to state this right now.
I have never researched this, this is from purely reasoning and thinking. This may very well be all wrong. So take everything here with a grain of salt.

You said it yourself, you cant run as a free country because you have no experience(However, you could make a case that this doesnt matter, many colonies have had no experience and went on to lead respectable countries). Probably the highest chance of decline for the country.

Colony could stay as it is, it wont prosper, it wont fall. Be in more of a stasis.

State has probably the most chance of overall turmoil, but probably a better chance of prosperity over decline.

My opinion? Dont become an independant. Atleast, not at this time. Wait for the world to calm down a bit. Because if you do, there will be alot of fighting probably. You would probably need to call upon some allies to help, and with everyone a little wary about the world, I dont know if many would aid.

State is probably the best option overall.

I haven't wanted to admit it, but becoming a state has been looking like the answer to some of our problems(thou it doesnt fix the fact the goverment is horrible or maybe it does?). But becoming a state is a permanent thing isn't it?

[Falconblade]

Pretty much, unless the US breaks up.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Its all a gamble at this point.

Before I begin, im going to state this right now.
I have never researched this, this is from purely reasoning and thinking. This may very well be all wrong. So take everything here with a grain of salt.

You said it yourself, you cant run as a free country because you have no experience(However, you could make a case that this doesnt matter, many colonies have had no experience and went on to lead respectable countries). Probably the highest chance of decline for the country.

Colony could stay as it is, it wont prosper, it wont fall. Be in more of a stasis.

State has probably the most chance of overall turmoil, but probably a better chance of prosperity over decline.

My opinion? Dont become an independant. Atleast, not at this time. Wait for the world to calm down a bit. Because if you do, there will be alot of fighting probably. You would probably need to call upon some allies to help, and with everyone a little wary about the world, I dont know if many would aid.

State is probably the best option overall.

I haven't wanted to admit it, but becoming a state has been looking like the answer to some of our problems(thou it doesnt fix the fact the goverment is horrible or maybe it does?). But becoming a state is a permanent thing isn't it?

Basically yes. We dont exactly like secession, though I suppose it's POSSIBLE... It does somewhat fix horrible govt because a good amount would be controlled by the US

[Kuya]

Yea every attempt to decide wether we become a republic or state has been cockblocked by the current goverment for decades, its perplexing.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

National pride can get very irrational and detrimental.

[Weeks]

I order for us to keep a nice round number of 50 states, I suggest kicking out Oklahoma if we ever grant Puerto Rico statehood.

<Tired Weakest Link reference here>

[Kuya]

I simply despise this colony status, it doesnt get us anywhere, nothing ever changes, and were drowning in time. I dont wana be those cock suckers who kiss america's ass every second because its god city, but its looking like the better option. Being a republic would be nice, but we would need major help to achive this, probably even a civil war to destroy the current form of goverment. You have people here who costantly shit talk about america yet they happily take their federal aid checks home.

One thing America has done wrong here thou, bad influence, we haven't been getting along with the Dominicans or the Cubans, due to our current superiority complex arising from the fact that we "belong" to america so we are better. The dominicans are now our mexicans, cept they use boats.

the dickheaded im better than you attitude is rubbing off on alot of people here

[Eaglestrike]

Don't become a state, 50 is a nice even number and would probably cost the US millions to change stuff around.


Yes, that's my reasoning.

[mikazuki]

vote for independence, then join the south american trade alliance instead of NAFTA.

if you're sharing a country with a lot of people who are happy to live on federal aid, you probably won't see a decisive referendum on independence, but you should still aim to achieve it to avoid being part of the US, being a colony is the worst possible option because you have no power to change your region in terms of economy or culture.

getting a few good aid projects out of the US treasury and then becoming an independent state would set PR on to the road to a stable nation, if you learn from the mistakes in haiti and preferably throw out any US military bases you might have (by refusing to renegotiate contracts at the time of secession).

[Byrd]

I simply despise this colony status, it doesnt get us anywhere, nothing ever changes, and were drowning in time. I dont wana be those cock suckers who kiss america's ass every second because its god city, but its looking like the better option. Being a republic would be nice, but we would need major help to achive this, probably even a civil war to destroy the current form of goverment. You have people here who costantly shit talk about america yet they happily take their federal aid checks home.

I would personally be in favor of granting statehood to Puerto Rico if they want it. But I wouldn't want statehood granted to a nation where less than a vast majority is in favor of statehood. I was unaware that Puerto Rico's status as a commonwealth (is that the right term?) opened them up to the draft. That's a big deal, in my mind, even though the draft hasn't been used in 30+ years. If you can be drafted, you should get a vote in matters of state.

I was curious about Puerto Rico's population status, and discovered this page on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_s ... population

It lists Puerto Rico, and it looks like it would get 6 votes in the House of Representatives (plus all states get 2 in the Senate), and 8 electoral votes in presidential elections, ranking it 27th out of 51 states in population. Regarding population density, it would be second out of 51, just barely behind New Jersey.

I think many Americans, myself included, are concerned about potential economic impacts. Per capita GDP for Puerto Rico is $18,500, about 40% that of the US' $42,000. I don't pretend to be an economist, so I don't know what kind of impact that would have. I guess I'd need to know more about what we currently put into Puerto Rico. Would it make sense, economically, for the US to grant statehood to Puerto Rico? My guess is that if it did, the US government would have tried to make an issue of it before -- one thing the US government likes to do is pursue its own economic interests (so they can waste them later). Reading Wiki, it appears that the US is content to let things be as is, but that's just one document -- is the perception different in Puerto Rico?

[Charla]

The fact that we can't vote for the president irritates us because we have to follow orders from someone we did not vote for(people here hate Bush, probably more than you guys do).

It's ok, half of us didn't vote for him either.

The FBI tends to treat the general public with disdain, and they seem to feel they can do whatever they want here. Thou we're practicaly the best vacational resource america has, the inside of the island is ripe with violence and criminality

That's kinda the biggest problem I see with American public opinion, if we ever actually notice PR is considered a colony. All we hear about Cuba/Jamaica/Dominicans is the crime and cocaine smuggling and illegal immigrants, so it's sort of a lose/lose situation. If PR got independence it would be another Cuba/Jamaica/Dominican Republic, but if you became a state it would suddenly be our problem. On top of that, I don't think Americans are confident in our ability to nation-build our way out of a paper bag right now.

the goverment always tells us America wants us to be a colony for them, and that we are very very valuable to them, somethign we bealive to be total bull.

They must be talking about the government, because 2/3 of us probably couldn't spell Puerto Rico, and have no idea if you're east or west of Cuba.

[Zigma]

I doubt pr could take care of itself alone. Didnt their goverment crash not too long ago?

[Evelyn]

Honestly, most american's don't care what puerto rico does. We want to see puerto rico do what it wants to do - be that statehood, nationhood, or maintaining your current status. However, I do agree that staying as is doesn't look to good. I dount the US would care where puerto rico goes from here, but honestly I don't think making a move at this point would do too well.

[Charla]

Honestly, most american's don't care what puerto rico does. We want to see puerto rico do what it wants to do - be that statehood, nationhood, or maintaining your current status. However, I do agree that staying as is doesn't look to good. I dount the US would care where puerto rico goes from here, but honestly I don't think making a move at this point would do too well.

That's very true, but what we don't want is another Fidel Castro or a mafia state sitting down there making noise, throwing crack our way and making us look bad.

[Kuya]

I doubt pr could take care of itself alone. Didnt their goverment crash not too long ago?

Goverment froze for one month, most goverment facilities were closed, including public schools, just one of the many failures of the system at the moment.

I think many Americans, myself included, are concerned about potential economic impacts. Per capita GDP for Puerto Rico is $18,500, about 40% that of the US' $42,000. I don't pretend to be an economist, so I don't know what kind of impact that would have. I guess I'd need to know more about what we currently put into Puerto Rico. Would it make sense, economically, for the US to grant statehood to Puerto Rico? My guess is that if it did, the US government would have tried to make an issue of it before -- one thing the US government likes to do is pursue its own economic interests (so they can waste them later). Reading Wiki, it appears that the US is content to let things be as is, but that's just one document -- is the perception different in Puerto Rico?

Most people here are not well informed of our situation, its only recently that we realized were a colony and to even make it more hilarius, last month it came out that there is in fact a Puertorican cizitenship still active. The public is divided between keeping things as they are now or becoming a state, the independents are the minority.