Princess Bards

[Kael]

I've been leveling up SAM lately and when I grab a tank I take what I can get. NIN or PLD doesn't really matter to me.

But when I grab one lately I've been seeing BRDs and even a few RDM with "Paladin: No Thanks" What the hell is up with that? lol

RDM I see no reason whatsoever. Aside from being very, very lazy. I just blist them then and there because more often then naught. They probably aren't very good to begin with.

BRDs on the other hand, it does take some work to get things going. But seriously, it's not that hard to keep a party setup correctly so that it's not a lot of work. I took my PLD up to 75 with a static BRD and they did it flawlessly. Lately when I happen to have a PLD and BRD in the group sometimes the BRD refuses to ballad the poor tank lol.

Of course this doesn't apply to people that actually care about their jobs. But seriously, there seems to be a swath of up and coming bandwagon brd and rdms that are just princessy as all hell. I guess it must be the melee that are leveling for meripos or something. XD

Anyone else noticing this much?

But whatever, people invite them anyway cause we need them lol

[Fng]

/em puts on his tiara


I don't party w/ pick ups, and the only PLD's getting in my party are LS ones.

[Eddie]

I can't tell you the last time I partied with a PLD for a tank. Since 60 something I've been trying to just go 2xNIN 2xSAM parties meself.

But yeah, I don't why some Bard's are so cocky, seeing as how they get invites in the blink of an eye.

It's all about numbers anymore.

[Septimus]

I've been leveling up SAM lately and when I grab a tank I take what I can get. NIN or PLD doesn't really matter to me.

But when I grab one lately I've been seeing BRDs and even a few RDM with "Paladin: No Thanks" What the hell is up with that? lol

RDM I see no reason whatsoever. Aside from being very, very lazy. I just blist them then and there because more often then naught. They probably aren't very good to begin with.

BRDs on the other hand, it does take some work to get things going. But seriously, it's not that hard to keep a party setup correctly so that it's not a lot of work. I took my PLD up to 75 with a static BRD and they did it flawlessly. Lately when I happen to have a PLD and BRD in the group sometimes the BRD refuses to ballad the poor tank lol.

Of course this doesn't apply to people that actually care about their jobs. But seriously, there seems to be a swath of up and coming bandwagon brd and rdms that are just princessy as all hell. I guess it must be the melee that are leveling for meripos or something. XD

Anyone else noticing this much?

But whatever, people invite them anyway cause we need them lol

Actually, no, it is not easy to keep the party set up so that it is not a lot of work. Mobs move so people move, and few people actually care enough about what a Bard does to bother to reposition themselves to that it is possible for the BRD to land Ballad on just the PLD.

I solve this problem by not caring if people get the wrong songs. I look at it as the responsibility of each person in the party to know where he/she is supposed to stand to get the proper buffs.

But it all goes back to people love having Bards and Red Mages, but they never level the jobs themselves. Yesterday on Atum's BRD between XP and farming for quests I got no less than 4 tells while I was in a party from people who wanted me to leave my current party and party with them. This is why BRDs and RDMs get princessy attitudes, because people are so desperate for them since they don't want to level the job themselves. That is who you get people like Ronstadt and Birdhair, they are so desperate for Red Mages that they will accept sub-par players who don't even bother to do their job just so that they can have a RDM in their party. (Never mind that their party would most likely be better served with another melee or anyone else for that matter.)

So instead of worrying about Bards with attitude, go level the job. That way you can sling attitude towards everyone else, and maybe then understand why there is so much attitude to begin with.

[Terrance]

Since the shield upgrade paladins in XP have been taking so little damage there is NO WAY that the party should have to stop to rest MP. Although NIN might still have an edge for XP, there really isn't that big of a gap and no reason to sit in town for an hour hopeing a NIN will pop while PLD are seeking.

[Eddie]

Though I don't play with my RDM as much as anymore, i'm glad I did level it. I have a whole different view on the job from a melee stand point.

[Whytewolf]

Edit: Beaten by like 10 people. I hate work Septimus summed it up fairly well tho.

BRDs on the other hand, it does take some work to get things going. But seriously, it's not that hard to keep a party setup correctly so that it's not a lot of work.

Level bard 75 levels in pick ups and come back and tell me that it's not that hard to get people set up or to get them to stay like that. Some of the people you find in pickups can hardly do their job well, let alone move around to help you do yours.

You mentioned your static doing it well. That's great. I bet the people that have a static aren't looking for group tho huh?

Now, I've never discriminated against partying with a certain job because of this. From experience tho, I don't really hold it against the people that do. It's annoying as hell to have to tell someone 5 times to stand a certain way. Then when they finally do get to the right spot, they move when a mage gets hate or something and don't go back.

I just got to the point where I'd sing the songs I needed to sing. If people were in the right spot and got the right song, great. If you can't figure it out after I've told you numerous times to be on the far side of the pld, I hope you like ballad for your sam.

[Bakthi]

A BRD and a PLD successfully working together means that the entire party has to be working together, or at least every single melee. I'm on PS2 and so can't use a distance plugin, but I know my ranges; I can hit just the PLD and mages no problem. But that DRG that insists on standing inside of the PLD, or next to him? Even if you send him a /tell every 3 fights? Not good. The MNK who engages and stays on the side of the mob the entire time? Almost as bad. And anyone that's THF or /THF had better be, at least in terms of this game, a Grade A Fucking Genius.

Oh, it has worked, for sure. I had a static with SMN PLD MNK when I was leveling my COR, and that has basically the same issues (plus the SMN running in for BPs). I did it, it was okay...most of the time. But it has also made me incredibly angry on uncountable occasions. A lot of people could just say "Fuck it, give the DRG ballad if he's too dumb to line up", but that pisses me off because it's inefficient. It's also okay if the party has a RDM, because then I can just not ballad the PLD. The PLD simply running back for ballad between fights works...sometimes...depending on when the songs line up, and not if I'm pulling. I like to pull, because a lot of people suck at that too

Basically, the problem is that PLD+BRD can work just great, but there are so many chances for it to work anywhere between horrible and mediocre instead, and pickup parties are scary. It's easier to believe that a pickup party with a NIN is going to turn out better.

Despite all this, I never turned down an invite while leveling BRD that had a PLD tank, unless there was something else terribly wrong with the party (like the one time I would have been the highest member by about 2 levels). I had plenty of good parties with both PLDs and NINs. These days, I haven't partied with anything that isn't at least mostly composed of LS members, and while I still prefer to go with a burn party, I'll go with whoever forms up if I feel like getting exp/merits.

[Khamsin]

A quick BRD question: If a BRD sings three songs, does the last one take the place of A) the first song B) the song sung with the least potency (e.g. via instrument bonus) C) other?

[aurik]

Just make the pld deck out in dd gear and give him attack songs, problem solved.

[Tythera]

A quick BRD question: If a BRD sings three songs, does the last one take the place of A) the first song B) the song sung with the least potency (e.g. via instrument bonus) C) other?

Replaces the song with the least duration left on it.

[Sho]

Just make the pld deck out in dd gear and give him attack songs, problem solved.

I see what you did there.

[Jeryhn]

I can understand the "princessy" attitude. As an RDM, I refuse to party if there's no Bard. Not really in the interests of being lazy, but in the interest of making the melee fighters not suck. I could also level the job myself, but also be relegated to Ballad/Lullaby duty for my LS, which I'd like to avoid at all costs.

I'd rather sit in Whitegate and dick around rewatching mission cutscenes than join a party that can barely eke out 4k per hour in the ToAU zones because they thought getting two RDMs over 1 RDM and 1 BRD is worthwhile.

[Tordall]

Plds used to get buy completely fine on 3 mp/tic refresh from either a bard or a red mage. Frankly, I'ld probably accept an invite from a party with a pld tank and just insist that they have parade gorget & get sanction autorefresh, then give them minuet & madrigal or minuet & march like the rest of the party.

More directly to the question at hand:

1) Pld + bard + thf or /thf at 60+ without a red mage = pain. No one in their right mind should try to do that if they aren't in a static party.

2) Pld + bard + rdm = great! Again, the pld gets melee songs, not ballads.

3) Ballad 1 and Ballad 2 have different ranges, if the pld positions himself nose-to-nose with the mob (as many are inclined to do) then it becomes almost impossible to land both ballads on the pld even if the rest of the melees are in the right spots.

4) Bards until 75 are so rare that many people, even in the late 60's have never partied with one and many bards don't feel like having to explain how to make the job work to noobs. - All bards are either level 1 or 75.

[Fng]

Another thing that I will add to Septimus's post (if I may)..

WHM + BRD + PLD = no debuffs.. aside from elegy.

The chances a mid level WHM's enfeebling is capped, or even close to capped are nil to none. So you basically get a PLD that is tough to keep ballad on, plus a monster that is destroying your tank. This soaks your MP.

Aside from that, Finale has a pretty horrible recast rate (unlike dispel which can be spammed for those super buffed RDM or WHM monsters) it really limits your prey choice.

I leveled my BRD in a static. Primarily because I have a micro management problem. I easily bump heads w/ idiots that cant read.

Most of the endgame population on Titan knows I don't really xp outside of my LS. My PLD's and mages need buffers more then some random dude needs his next merit.... So I don't get many party requests. And I decline every xp party request unless I *know* you.

I will go w/ Septimus' guess and say you have not leveled RDM or BRD above 37.

[S N K]

/em puts on his tiara


I don't party w/ pick ups, and the only PLD's getting in my party are LS ones.

lol

I can understand the "princessy" attitude. As an RDM, I refuse to party if there's no Bard. Not really in the interests of being lazy, but in the interest of making the melee fighters not suck.

Oh ffs you're just acting spoiled. You're not going to get the perfect party all the time but you can build something decent and work out a party that can make a decent amount of exp per hour.

Being too picky about PT setups is being lazy and while I agree some kind of mana regen is needed for any major PT setup, you can function with just an RDM and no BRD if need be.

~S N K

[Sho]

4) Bards until 75 are so rare that many people, even in the late 60's have never partied with one and many bards don't feel like having to explain how to make the job work to noobs. - All bards are either level 1 or 75.

Amen brotha, amen.

[Midnightjade]

Bakthi (above) has this explained really well. My BRD is only 72, but I'm seeing a similar pattern so far. I can keep Ballad on the PLD and the mages, and no one else, when the party plays together and pays attention. All it takes is one or two members to run around like headless chickens, and efficiency drops away significantly. In a pickup party, that's pretty common (especially on Friday nights, lol).

I still party with PLD though, and never turn down a reasonable invite. If there's a problem, a lot of the time it's coming from the melee, and in that scenario it makes absolutely no sense to discriminate against the tank.

[dietvanillapepsi]

... (plus the SMN running in for BPs).

Man I found this more annoying than having a pld tank.

[Thistle]

4) Bards until 75 are so rare that many people, even in the late 60's have never partied with one and many bards don't feel like having to explain how to make the job work to noobs. - All bards are either level 1 or 75.

That's actually why I started leveling BRD. I partied with a grand total of 3 BRDs on DRK 1-75. I had no clue how the job worked, and I really didn't like having such a gaping hole in my game-knowledge.

Fortunately or unfortunately my BRD has always been in a LS static, so my view of the job is very limited (I've always worked only with a NIN tank, WHM, SAM x2, etc), but at least I understand it a whole lot more than I had before.