Is there any evidence so far that one floor affects another?

[Faranim]

I keep reading all sorts of theories like "the mobs you kill on the 1st floor determine whether or not blahblahblah on another floor." or "we think that the door opens if you suchandsuch with the mob 2 floors earlier."

Has anyone discovered anything in Salvage where things you do on one floor affect another?

Aside from the obvious "If you go NE on the 2nd floor, you're forced to be in the NE section on the 3rd floor," I have yet to see any correlation between floors. Every single floor seems to be a separate entity - each one having it's own little tricks for spawning a NM.

I seriously doubt that the triggers for reaching the bosses / spawning NMs would be as complicated as people are theorizing.

[Khamsin]

It does seem ebon panelish.

[divisortheory]

Well, the one JP group claims to have cleared the entire 6th floor in Arrapago without having the gate to the boss become unsealed. It doesn't answer your question, but it's something to think about nonetheless.

[Almalexia]

There's only one way that every floor of Salvage interacts with each other, and that's in the interest of time. On each floor in Salvage you are doing one of two things, but never both:

1. Fulfilling conditions to obtain a certain item(s) on a particular floor (costs time)

2. Fulfilling conditions to proceed from one floor to another as quickly as possible (necessary to save time, ultimately to be used for activity 1)

If there were all sorts of intricate ways that actions on floor X directly affected floor Y, then the Salvage design kind of falls apart. There's no time extensions, 100 minutes goes by fast, you cannot change your mind about which path to take, and you certainly can't go down a floor. The floor-by-floor puzzle design makes perfect sense, and kind of explains why defeating the Chariot bosses doesn't result in fancy key items, cutscenes, or any sort of visible credit-- the top floor is just another floor.

[divisortheory]

If there were all sorts of intricate ways that actions on floor X directly affected floor Y, then the Salvage design kind of falls apart. There's no time extensions, 100 minutes goes by fast, you cannot change your mind about which path to take, and you certainly can't go down a floor. The floor-by-floor puzzle design makes perfect sense, and kind of explains why defeating the Chariot bosses doesn't result in fancy key items, cutscenes, or any sort of visible credit-- the top floor is just another floor.

How would you explain the group clearing the entire 6th floor in Arrapago and not being able to proceed then?

[aurik]

If there were all sorts of intricate ways that actions on floor X directly affected floor Y, then the Salvage design kind of falls apart. There's no time extensions, 100 minutes goes by fast, you cannot change your mind about which path to take, and you certainly can't go down a floor. The floor-by-floor puzzle design makes perfect sense, and kind of explains why defeating the Chariot bosses doesn't result in fancy key items, cutscenes, or any sort of visible credit-- the top floor is just another floor.

How would you explain the group clearing the entire 6th floor in Arrapago and not being able to proceed then?

Citation please.

[Sady]

If there were all sorts of intricate ways that actions on floor X directly affected floor Y, then the Salvage design kind of falls apart. There's no time extensions, 100 minutes goes by fast, you cannot change your mind about which path to take, and you certainly can't go down a floor. The floor-by-floor puzzle design makes perfect sense, and kind of explains why defeating the Chariot bosses doesn't result in fancy key items, cutscenes, or any sort of visible credit-- the top floor is just another floor.

How would you explain the group clearing the entire 6th floor in Arrapago and not being able to proceed then?

Simple... Dumb blind luck (or a lack thereof)!

Perhaps some of the bosses were intended to be unaccesible 9 times out of 10. Anyone ever consider that?

If you pay close attention, none of the conditions for spawning Ramparts are overly complicated. They usually include kill X mobs and there's a chance it will pop. Making it litteraly up to lady luck...

It definitely sounds like SE's logic to me! Kill JoL and there's a chance AV will pop.

Perhaps they have simply taken this to the next level and made it such that there is a chance you can access the last floor...

[divisortheory]

Citation please.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewto ... 23&start=0

sixth post from the bottom. Page 1. Posted by Faranim. In the quoted section it says JP Site says they cleared entire 6th floor but still couldn't open the locked door to boss on 7th. I guess we'd need to get Faranim in on this if we want further citations to the original source.

Simple... Dumb blind luck (or a lack thereof)!

Perhaps some of the bosses were intended to be unaccesible 9 times out of 10. Anyone ever consider that?

I've considered that, but I think it's even less likely than one floor affecting another floor.

[Archeons]

Well, the one JP group claims to have cleared the entire 6th floor in Arrapago without having the gate to the boss become unsealed. It doesn't answer your question, but it's something to think about nonetheless.

Did they kill the 5th floor chariot?

[Faranim]

That information was strictly word of mouth. I do not have a link to the site or anything else to back it up.

Edit: I haven't even heard about people reaching the 5th floor with enough time left, much less the 6th. Arrapago just sucks so bad.

[Jeryhn]

Well, if all the mobs on the 6th Floor have been accounted for, perhaps the issue is time? Have to get there within a certain amount of time or else the door closes and you lose forevers.

Which would make Arrpago even more mindfucking harder than it already is.

[Khamsin]

What if the condition wasn't to kill all the mobs? They could clear all the mobs on 6th floor and still not fulfill the requirements if clearing the 6th floor wasn't the requirement.

The requirement could be anything, from non-combat related things (i.e. not based on what you kill) to maybe a random spawn from a rampart (e.g. instead of killing all the ramparts, let them summon).

If it's rampart related, perhaps there's a special mob the rampart summons, or you have to kill a certain number of mobs from the ramparts. Did the group that cleared the 6th floor let the Ramparts summon much at all, or just kill them quickly?

[Archeons]

That information was strictly word of mouth. I do not have a link to the site or anything else to back it up.

Edit: I haven't even heard about people reaching the 5th floor with enough time left, much less the 6th. Arrapago just sucks so bad.

This is wrong, we had 40 minute left on 4th floor(after killing princess pudding) and farmed the whole 4th floor floor, except the Rampart and farmed the whole 5th floor as well except 2 Ramparts and 1 Archaic Chariot. We still have 5 minute left for 6th floor. (12 people)

JP theory for zhaylom is to kill Chariot on the 5th floor and 6th floor to open the sealed door. I was assuming this also works in Arrapago.

[aurik]

Aye my group got to the 5th floor with about 3-5 minutes with 8 people, and we did a lot of random poop on the 3rd and 4th floors. If you were beelining, you could make it to the 6th with enough time to at least poke around.

[Khamsin]

Given that it takes about 25-30 min at minimum to kill the bosses, judging from LAC and LBC, and people generally are making it to the 6th floor with under 10 min left... I wonder how people will ever actually kill the boss once they do make it to the 7th floor.

If you aim to get to the 7th floor with 30 min remaining, and still do whatever it takes to open the door on the 6th floor, you're likely not going to be geared very well and will wipe due to being shittily equipped and no stats. If LAC and LBC are any indication, Armored and Battleclad Chariots will have a ton of HP and hit like a truck, so being well-equipped is a necessity.

Unless there's something we're missing here that could fathomably get us to the boss with 30 min left and still be fully equipped to defeat it.

[divisortheory]

Unless there's something we're missing here that could fathomably get us to the boss with 30 min left and still be fully equipped to defeat it.

8 MNKs, 2 NIN, 2 RDM, 2 WHM, 2 BRD, 2 BLM

Don't give shit to the MNKs except JA, and a few weapon/HP.

[Archeons]

Given that it takes about 25-30 min at minimum to kill the bosses, judging from LAC and LBC, and people generally are making it to the 6th floor with under 10 min left... I wonder how people will ever actually kill the boss once they do make it to the 7th floor.

If you aim to get to the 7th floor with 30 min remaining, and still do whatever it takes to open the door on the 6th floor, you're likely not going to be geared very well and will wipe due to being shittily equipped and no stats. If LAC and LBC are any indication, Armored and Battleclad Chariots will have a ton of HP and hit like a truck, so being well-equipped is a necessity.

Unless there's something we're missing here that could fathomably get us to the boss with 30 min left and still be fully equipped to defeat it.

Bigger LS with plenty of mnks, can split out and kill everything on the 1st floor to make the farming run faster. If you really planning to do the boss, this is achievable by bringing enough power to farm what you need before boss. We did 12 people run and still can manage to reach 4th floor with 40 minute remaining(killed princess pudding too, we skipped 3rd floor).

edit: divtheory beat me by few seconds

[Khamsin]

Given that it takes about 25-30 min at minimum to kill the bosses, judging from LAC and LBC, and people generally are making it to the 6th floor with under 10 min left... I wonder how people will ever actually kill the boss once they do make it to the 7th floor.

If you aim to get to the 7th floor with 30 min remaining, and still do whatever it takes to open the door on the 6th floor, you're likely not going to be geared very well and will wipe due to being shittily equipped and no stats. If LAC and LBC are any indication, Armored and Battleclad Chariots will have a ton of HP and hit like a truck, so being well-equipped is a necessity.

Unless there's something we're missing here that could fathomably get us to the boss with 30 min left and still be fully equipped to defeat it.

Bigger LS with plenty of mnks, can split out and kill everything on the 1st floor to make the farming run faster. If you really planning to do the boss, this is achievable by bringing enough power to farm what you need before boss. We did 12 people run and still can manage to reach 4th floor with 40 minute remaining(killed princess pudding too, we skipped 3rd floor).

edit: divtheory beat me by few seconds

Reaching 4th floor with 40 min remaining means you gotta be able to pass through 4th and 5th floors and unlock the door on 6th all within 10 min in order to have time to kill the boss.

Even with 8 MNKs, you gotta really haul ass to get up there in time. If you skipped the third floor, that means you took an average of 30 min per floor for the first two floors. You would probably want to aim for 15 min per floor, and skip what you can. But at the same time, you'll need to be well equipped and have stats unlocked so you even have a chance at surviving.

[Archeons]

Given that it takes about 25-30 min at minimum to kill the bosses, judging from LAC and LBC, and people generally are making it to the 6th floor with under 10 min left... I wonder how people will ever actually kill the boss once they do make it to the 7th floor.

If you aim to get to the 7th floor with 30 min remaining, and still do whatever it takes to open the door on the 6th floor, you're likely not going to be geared very well and will wipe due to being shittily equipped and no stats. If LAC and LBC are any indication, Armored and Battleclad Chariots will have a ton of HP and hit like a truck, so being well-equipped is a necessity.

Unless there's something we're missing here that could fathomably get us to the boss with 30 min left and still be fully equipped to defeat it.

Bigger LS with plenty of mnks, can split out and kill everything on the 1st floor to make the farming run faster. If you really planning to do the boss, this is achievable by bringing enough power to farm what you need before boss. We did 12 people run and still can manage to reach 4th floor with 40 minute remaining(killed princess pudding too, we skipped 3rd floor).

edit: divtheory beat me by few seconds

Reaching 4th floor with 40 min remaining means you gotta be able to pass through 4th and 5th floors and unlock the door on 6th all within 10 min in order to have time to kill the boss.

Even with 8 MNKs, you gotta really haul ass to get up there in time. If you skipped the third floor, that means you took an average of 30 min per floor for the first two floors. You would probably want to aim for 15 min per floor, and skip what you can. But at the same time, you'll need to be well equipped and have stats unlocked so you even have a chance at surviving.

You sir are pessimistic, considering we only have 12 people and waste some time on Princess Pudding on the 2nd floor. 4th floor and 5th floor are full of gears for SJ, JA & some other cells. Just try this zone and find out yourself. I warned you now, bring thf!

[Khamsin]

Given that it takes about 25-30 min at minimum to kill the bosses, judging from LAC and LBC, and people generally are making it to the 6th floor with under 10 min left... I wonder how people will ever actually kill the boss once they do make it to the 7th floor.

If you aim to get to the 7th floor with 30 min remaining, and still do whatever it takes to open the door on the 6th floor, you're likely not going to be geared very well and will wipe due to being shittily equipped and no stats. If LAC and LBC are any indication, Armored and Battleclad Chariots will have a ton of HP and hit like a truck, so being well-equipped is a necessity.

Unless there's something we're missing here that could fathomably get us to the boss with 30 min left and still be fully equipped to defeat it.

Bigger LS with plenty of mnks, can split out and kill everything on the 1st floor to make the farming run faster. If you really planning to do the boss, this is achievable by bringing enough power to farm what you need before boss. We did 12 people run and still can manage to reach 4th floor with 40 minute remaining(killed princess pudding too, we skipped 3rd floor).

edit: divtheory beat me by few seconds

Reaching 4th floor with 40 min remaining means you gotta be able to pass through 4th and 5th floors and unlock the door on 6th all within 10 min in order to have time to kill the boss.

Even with 8 MNKs, you gotta really haul ass to get up there in time. If you skipped the third floor, that means you took an average of 30 min per floor for the first two floors. You would probably want to aim for 15 min per floor, and skip what you can. But at the same time, you'll need to be well equipped and have stats unlocked so you even have a chance at surviving.

You sir are pessimistic, considering we only have 12 people and waste some time on Princess Pudding on the 2nd floor. 4th floor and 5th floor are full of gears for SJ, JA & some other cells. Just try this zone and find out yourself. I warned you now, bring thf!

It's not pessimism. If I were to suggest that its impossible, that would be pessimism. I'm just giving an idea as to how much you really have to haul ass even with a full group to get there in time.

It's too easy to spend more time in the first few floors because "Its ok, we got 100 minutes left". By the time you think to check the clock on the 4th floor, an hour has already gone by and its too late.

If anyone has any real intentions of beating that zone, they'll have to carefully monitor time and guide their farming in the most expedient way possible. You can't slack or waste time at all. More importantly, it might go beyond simply being quick. You might have to prioritize cells and leave the others locked. Naturally, we prioritize already when we decide who gets what cells in what order. But in the end, everyone usually has most things unlocked anyway, our priorities just determine who gets it first. In that zone, you may have to decide that even though you could kill one more mob and get one more cell, you might have to just turn around and move on.