Enemy Critical Hit Rate

[divisortheory]

What's the average rate of critical hits received on an HNM like say Tiamat, Kirin, or Fafnir? Has anyone ever parsed this?

[Minions]

What's the average rate of critical hits received on an HNM like say Tiamat, Kirin, or Fafnir? Has anyone ever parsed this?

Dont know if anyone has ever parsed it, however tiamat has mighty strikes so its probably not a good mob to test it on.

[Sci]

Testing on Kirin as well is going to be a pain, since he rarely does normal swings. Fafnir would be ok to test though. How hard of NMs do you want? Ix'MNK would give you a ton of data from just one fight. Jailer of Prudence gets a lot of swings in as well.

[divisortheory]

I mainly want to know if it varies from mob to mob, or if it's pretty consistent. I also want a ballpark number so that I can tell if equipment like Safety Mantle and Van Pendant are pieces of shit, or actually worthwhile.

The average player with crit merits and no Crit+ from gear is going to parse about 12-13% of crits against your typical merit mob. Let's say the average HNM parses 12-13% against the average tank. Equip both of those two pieces of gear and you just cut his crits down by 25%. Going from 12% to 9% is a pretty enormous difference. On the other hand, if the mob crits 25% of the time it's not nearly as useful, as 25% -> 22% is only about a 12% gain

[Minions]

I mainly want to know if it varies from mob to mob, or if it's pretty consistent. I also want a ballpark number so that I can tell if equipment like Safety Mantle and Van Pendant are pieces of shit, or actually worthwhile.

The average player with crit merits and no Crit+ from gear is going to parse about 12-13% of crits against your typical merit mob. Let's say the average HNM parses 12-13% against the average tank. Equip both of those two pieces of gear and you just cut his crits down by 25%. Going from 12% to 9% is a pretty enormous difference. On the other hand, if the mob crits 25% of the time it's not nearly as useful, as 25% -> 22% is only about a 12% gain

The true question is why would you be taking dmg to begin with :D

[divisortheory]

Because shit happens sometimes

Pretend the mob in question has an AoE that strips shadows and he immediately double attacks after every AoE.

[bebeci]

The true question is why would you be taking dmg to begin with :D

Macro in while casting Utsusemi, since I feel taking a crit hit while casting decreases chances of the spell completing.

[Minions]

The true question is why would you be taking dmg to begin with :D

Macro in while casting Utsusemi, since I feel taking a crit hit while casting decreases chances of the spell completing.

Or time your casting so you are hit at the beginning/end of casting and it wont interupt at all. This would be nice if its true for mnk'ix though, however it hits for like 30 anyway.

[aurik]

I mainly want to know if it varies from mob to mob, or if it's pretty consistent. I also want a ballpark number so that I can tell if equipment like Safety Mantle and Van Pendant are pieces of shit, or actually worthwhile.

The average player with crit merits and no Crit+ from gear is going to parse about 12-13% of crits against your typical merit mob. Let's say the average HNM parses 12-13% against the average tank. Equip both of those two pieces of gear and you just cut his crits down by 25%. Going from 12% to 9% is a pretty enormous difference. On the other hand, if the mob crits 25% of the time it's not nearly as useful, as 25% -> 22% is only about a 12% gain

The true question is why would you be taking dmg to begin with :D

It could be useful on a defense macro set, if the crit rate is already low to begin with.

Do recall that crit adds 1.0 to pDIF, so basically adds the base damage of the mob to the hit. (This is prior to dmg reduction proprties from phalanx/gear) So if the mob's base damage is ~150, and you're getting hit for 75 raw with just defense gear, songs, abilities, a crit will triple the amount of damage you take. If you swap out a meaningless piece of gear for -crit, you'll take far less damage.

A particular application where this might work is the chariot bosses in salvage. I think they have somewhere around 300-400 base damage, but really low attack. That means with good defense gear a tank will get hit for 100-150, but crits can top the 500 mark. If the crit rate of the chariot is, say, 10%, then between merits and gear crits can be nearly totally eliminated.

Not only that, but with defense songs (LOL!!), demon arrows, bio2, pro5, etc the Chariots may even be meat-tankable.

[Minions]

I mainly want to know if it varies from mob to mob, or if it's pretty consistent. I also want a ballpark number so that I can tell if equipment like Safety Mantle and Van Pendant are pieces of shit, or actually worthwhile.

The average player with crit merits and no Crit+ from gear is going to parse about 12-13% of crits against your typical merit mob. Let's say the average HNM parses 12-13% against the average tank. Equip both of those two pieces of gear and you just cut his crits down by 25%. Going from 12% to 9% is a pretty enormous difference. On the other hand, if the mob crits 25% of the time it's not nearly as useful, as 25% -> 22% is only about a 12% gain

The true question is why would you be taking dmg to begin with :D

It could be useful on a defense macro set, if the crit rate is already low to begin with.

Do recall that crit adds 1.0 to pDIF, so basically adds the base damage of the mob to the hit. (This is prior to dmg reduction proprties from phalanx/gear) So if the mob's base damage is ~150, and you're getting hit for 75 raw with just defense gear, songs, abilities, a crit will triple the amount of damage you take. If you swap out a meaningless piece of gear for -crit, you'll take far less damage.

A particular application where this might work is the chariot bosses in salvage. I think they have somewhere around 300-400 base damage, but really low attack. That means with good defense gear a tank will get hit for 100-150, but crits can top the 500 mark. If the crit rate of the chariot is, say, 10%, then between merits and gear crits can be nearly totally eliminated.

Not only that, but with defense songs (LOL!!), demon arrows, bio2, pro5, etc the Chariots may even be meat-tankable.

Do alot of people merit crit hit down? >.>; cause w/ crit hit up and capped enmity I got no room ;x

[divisortheory]

A particular application where this might work is the chariot bosses in salvage.

This is actually the exact mob I had in mind, lol.

So far we've had fairly bad luck on the boss. We still haven't been able to push it down, and every time we die to exactly the same thing. AoE followed by double attack crit. One of our NIN tanks does have full Enemy Crit down merits, and he claims to hardly ever be critted by LBC.

If a NIN were to combine full Enemy Crit down merits with these 2 pieces of gear and a full DMG- set (I think NIN caps out at -47% Physical Damage without D. Ring), I think the boss could probably be solo tanked by a NIN/WAR. Throw Phalanx II in there, and you have a monster tank.

[bebeci]

There's a temp item (body boost?) that increase HP. That'll help a lot.

[divisortheory]

There's a temp item (body boost?) that increase HP. That'll help a lot.

We use it, but it only lasts about 10 minutes.

[divisortheory]

Sorta related question, but can you surpass the 50% DMG reduction cap with Phalanx II? Like if you already have exactly -50% from gear, can Phalanx II take it to -70%?

[Tordall]

<---actually has -4% enemy and +4% crit hit rates.

I'm not at all serious about HNM tanking though. When I do it I'm more often than not on bard (and always at least /brd), and since I'm gonna hit max-possible enmity in 1-4 minutes anyway, there's no reason to load up on +enmity gear.

On one of our recent Limbus runs we had 2 nin/wars as our tanks, and I got a bunch of tells from our black mages asking me to change to bard/nin and tank against orders from our LS-leader.

[Chupunpupun]

A particular application where this might work is the chariot bosses in salvage.

This is actually the exact mob I had in mind, lol.

So far we've had fairly bad luck on the boss. We still haven't been able to push it down, and every time we die to exactly the same thing. AoE followed by double attack crit. One of our NIN tanks does have full Enemy Crit down merits, and he claims to hardly ever be critted by LBC.

If a NIN were to combine full Enemy Crit down merits with these 2 pieces of gear and a full DMG- set (I think NIN caps out at -47% Physical Damage without D. Ring), I think the boss could probably be solo tanked by a NIN/WAR. Throw Phalanx II in there, and you have a monster tank.

Off topic question but with a NIN only focus on HNM tanking, would Sattva be a good choice for a ring slot if the NIN doesn't have D. Ring?

[Minions]

A particular application where this might work is the chariot bosses in salvage.

This is actually the exact mob I had in mind, lol.

So far we've had fairly bad luck on the boss. We still haven't been able to push it down, and every time we die to exactly the same thing. AoE followed by double attack crit. One of our NIN tanks does have full Enemy Crit down merits, and he claims to hardly ever be critted by LBC.

If a NIN were to combine full Enemy Crit down merits with these 2 pieces of gear and a full DMG- set (I think NIN caps out at -47% Physical Damage without D. Ring), I think the boss could probably be solo tanked by a NIN/WAR. Throw Phalanx II in there, and you have a monster tank.

Swareing never to level a melee job as long as you play this game? yes, however I doubt swareing that would get very far, I still stand by my Rajas.

Off topic question but with a NIN only focus on HNM tanking, would Sattva be a good choice for a ring slot if the NIN doesn't have D. Ring?

[Raineer]

Sorta related question, but can you surpass the 50% DMG reduction cap with Phalanx II? Like if you already have exactly -50% from gear, can Phalanx II take it to -70%?

Phalanx isn't a % so it will stack fine. Phalanx is just a set number.

And forgive me (it's been sooo long since I've played), but isn't Tiamat similar to Nidhogg? Does the log actually say "Tiamat scores a critical hit"? Not sure if you could parse that anyways.

[divisortheory]

Sorta related question, but can you surpass the 50% DMG reduction cap with Phalanx II? Like if you already have exactly -50% from gear, can Phalanx II take it to -70%?

Phalanx isn't a % so it will stack fine. Phalanx is just a set number.

A set number as in it reduces damage taken by a flat number N? If so, that might not be as useful as I thought against these bosses. Taking 20 damage off of 550 attack is kind of useless.

All mobs say "Mob scores a critical hit!" when they crit against you. Are you implying Nidhogg doesn't? If so, that's news to me.

[Scythiroth]

A set number as in it reduces damage taken by a flat number N? If so, that might not be as useful as I thought against these bosses. Taking 20 damage off of 550 attack is kind of useless.

Yeah, it is just a number.

I haven't really tried Phalanx II, but it's probably something like 15 dmg off of any attack whether an attack is doing 500 dmg or 15 dmg.