Newbie Vanguard experience from end-game FFXI player

[DraOfShiva]

Hello, ppl.

I want to share my lil experience with Vanguard MMORPG. FFXI got boring
for me, I've got nearly anything I wanted as black mage, participated
in nearly all "end-game" activities, even started my own salvage ls.
But I've lost interest in playing FFXI and retired.
There is a "new" mmorpg (released 31th Jan 2007) - Vanguard. I've tried it and want to share my feelings with you.
http://www.vanguardsoh.com

It's PC only. It's not free. You need buy "box" and pay subscription to play, like in ffxi
Though even at this "I want this game" there is difference - I live in Russia and there was
a whole "I hate it" problem cause you can't "digitally buy" ffxi or addons - ToAU was not
released here, was not available at retailers and you could not buy it online.
With Vanguard I was able to buy "key" and download whole game to my harddrive.
The big thing about this game is that it's "english", I've not met "JP" players yet. Servers are either USA or EU. Is it good or bad - you decide. I'm just glad I don't feel like "low-race" anymore when getting nothing or "JP onry" response when asking about joining a group [I've played ffxi in mostly "jp prime time"]. Also no trouble with communications - everyone speaks english.

I've spent like 30 hours within game so far and overall I like it. It's challenging and
it's rewarding. Even "doing quests" is worth your time.
I'm kinda newbie in game (lvl 13 necromancer, max level is 50), but still I think my info will be useful.

There are basically 3 types of servers in Vanguard. You can choose either PvE, Team PvP and FFA PvP.
PvE is like FFXI without ballista, i.e. without any PvP. Team PvP is PvE + "war between good and bad races".
FFA (FreeForAll) PvP is PvE + you can PvP basically anyone (don't like player - [try] kill it, NPC wasted your time with that stupid quest - ThunderIV it )
And I like it. Are you bored to death spending 3 hours for faf only to be "botted" in the end by that XYZ ls? In Vanguard at
FFA PvP server you can just kill them (if they will not kill you first :D). PvP death ends up in losing 15% of "gils"
you have to winner (you can safely store your main gil in bank).
So far no items are lost after PvP death. After PvE death (mob killed you) all left of you
is tombstone (others can't loot it), you lose exp (gain exp "debt", I didn't deleveled, though I had "0" exp in 13th), and if no raise in 10 mins you're automatically
transferred to nearest altar (you can just hit "release spirit" after death for it). And there are two ways -
either run for your tombstone or "retrieve" your tombstone right at altar at 20% durability price (can be repaired later)
If you run for your tombstone and get it (could be impossible with all that mobs around) you also get nearly
all exp back.

There are many classes in the game and races you can choose from.
Every class is like "job" in ffxi, there are no "subjobs" in vanguard (at least yet). There are no "lol" jobs in game, at least yet.
There are 3 "continents", so if you choose to play high elf you'll start at "good continent" and if goblin - at other, "evil continent".
Continents have different quests, towns have "faction", for example goblin towns don't like "humes" and their guards/npc will attack humes at sight.
But you can "get reputation" with faction that don't like you and they'll change their mind about you.

About classes - very versatile selection, I'll briefly describe them.
Classes are divided in 4 categories:
1. Protective fighters (Warrior - like FFXI WAR, Paladin - PLD, DreadKnight - DRK that can tank
2. Offensive fighters (Bard - BRD that is good at melee), Rogue - THF, Ranger - RNG, Monk MNK)
3. Healers (Cleric - WHM that is good at melee, BloodMage, Shaman (RDM), Disciple)
4. Mage DDs (Psionicist, Necromancer (pet job with Dots), Sorcerer (BLM), Druid)

Every race is more or less good for selected job. Some races can't be some jobs - for example "good elf" can't be necromancer.
I'm playing as goblin necromancer, very funny. Lol I don't need to be "goodie-woodie" as a goblin necromancer - you'll not get quests "please help
this old sick woman, get some herbs for cure-potion", nah some quests are pretty "evil" - "enslave Tanvu settlers and bring them to witch for sacrifice".
Such a relief, I'm so tired of these "Oh you're so shiny hero". [I'm good and healthy man in RL ]

As necro, you can pet-tank with summoned undead, DoT, debuff mob and even nuke it.
Very good at kiting - necro have "fear" ability - you cast it and mob (if not resisted) runs away for 20 secs - your pet continues to punch,
your DoT slowly kills. Very good solo job, party-friendly also - DoTs, nukes, crowd control - you can pet-tank link, you can "fear" link.
But it's not "cake" - feared link can run away and link other mobs. At "omg we're faulked" moment you can mass-evac (6 secs cast) - like FFXI
Escape spell). Every ability has "cast time" and "cool-down" time - i.e. delay before you can use it again.
So far there are no "skillchains" between various players like in FFXI, but there are one-player-only chains. Some abilities open other abilities,
some abilities are "bridges" to other abilities and some abilities are "finishers". For example if I critical-hit mob, my ability Sealed Fate 1 opens
if I apply it, then mob gets instant damage then first wave of damage (like 200) over 60 secs (like 2000 overall) then second wave of damage (like 4000)
over 10 mins - raid bosses/tough NMs go go go!

There are named mobs (notorious mobs in ffxi) that can drop named equip, for example I've killed "Esrind's left hand" warrior mob and got "Esrind's
Mask of Order" with good DEX bonus.

Game devs said that Vanguard is like "20% solo, 60% group, 20% raids" game. I'm newb, didn't participated in any raids yet. But I was
in parties (of 6 ppl) several times and it's fun. There is tank, there is "hate", agro, links all like in FFXI but more "dynamic". Fights
are much more dynamic than in FFXI. There are many more mob types than in ffxi. For example, at my level "gardens" (Gardens of Xia’Liu)
area is good for party exp.
There are wolves, golems, "fairy type mobs", frogs, "flying giants", "animated vines" may be others I've not seen yet - all in same area.
Mobs of some type can have various jobs, like in ffxi - warriors, spellcasters etc. Mobs are different size also, some wolves are big, some are small - whelps, some are white (snow wolves), some are dark grey - there is no ffxi's "omg we're fightings the same crabs again"
Party leader can set various loot modes - from "free for all" to "if we'll get rare item then every member
will need/greed random for it")

Game world is huge and seamless - it means no "zones" and no "zoning". Also - NO INSTANCES. You don't need to "walk all over the continent" - buy
mount (I've bought "young hourse"), there are flying mounts also. You can summon your mount at any place (no that ffxi bullsh*t like "Why I can't
summon my choco with whistle in Uleguarand Range). Mounts are not "agro-free" like choco in ffxi - mob still agro and can drop
(there is characteristic for it) you from your mount.

About equipment. There are 5 (!) types of equipment - for adventuring, for crafting, for diplomacy, for harvesting and for mounts.
Equipment can be bought from shops (common $hit), quested (often very nice pieces), crafted and acquired as loot from mobs. There are several
"grades" of equipment from common to heroic.

Every skill-area has it's attributes that are risen the more "actions" you do that requires that "skill-area". For example the more I swing
with axe - the more "axe skill" I'm getting - all like in ffxi. Melee skills, mage skills - all here - conjuration, evocation, alteration etc.
There is difference in attributes and their relocation. When you advance in level (after 10) you get "attribute points" you can spend.
For example I'm playing goblin necro and I want to spend my attributes on INT (4), Wisdom (4), Vit (1) and Constitution (1). As goblin I'm getting +1 INT, +3 VIT every level. But if I want to become "melee-necro" I can spend points on STR and DEX for example.

About harvesting - there are several harvesting areas - like mining, skinning, lumber, reaping. You have main "harvest" skill and skill (with appropriate rank)
in harvesting area you're advancing. I'm going for skinning - to get skin I need kill mob that is skinnable and "get his skin". Of course the more
"rare" and expensive skin is the more powerful mob you need to kill and more "skinning skill" you need. With mining you need to find "deposit" - of copper, tin etc. With lumber - find tree
and when you're done with it it actually falls on ground!. Items you harvest can be used in crafting or sold on market. Harvesting equipment is different
from adventuring one - for example I've Amateur skinning knife, that allows me to harvest "amateur" skins, harvesting shirt with +harvesting yield on it.

Market is like FFXI auction house. You can "search" for items you want, you can place your items at your price (10 items max). You get moneys at "delivery box" - mailbox.
I'm playing at FFA PvP server so when I'm going to market I'm extra cautious and always have my evac macro ready - cause markets are sometimes camped by
"bad guys" that can kill you and loot 15% of your gils lol.

Crafting is much more advanced that in ffxi. You're not "get ingredients, press button and hope for good", crafting is like "mini-game" here.
When crafting you have process with "complications" you need to solve. If you're successful with avoiding/solving complications then you get better item.
There are several grades of quality like "A grade", "D-grade". You can "enchant" item you're crafting using things like "might powder" - your crafted item
will have +STR modifier. Other big difference from ffxi - You can get craft orders from npc which will provide many materials that are required and
of course you'll neet to give crafted thing back to npc (can't sell it lol). This is great thing for "skilling up". There is "crafting equipment" of course.

Mounting equipment is used to enchant your mount - horseshoes, saddlebags etc.

There are "soulbound" items, FFXI's Ex ones - they are always with you (even after death), you can't sell them.

Diplomacy is card "mini-game" that allows you to interact with npcs in the way they'll do something for you. I've not tried it yet, but some ppl
find it very funny.

There are various quests (and you can get "quest marker" on scaleable map). Quests give BIG exp bonus and very good moneys [at least now and "its good - for newbie"].
Some are "bring it there", some "kill X mobs", some "kill Y mobs for Z drop".
Some are complex, there are chains of quests with really good rewards. For example I was "repeating" path of great Martok hero - he came through dungeon
[bring that, kill that], fought boss and put "light beacon" at top of mountain. It was not "boring" or repeatative, I went through area with
different mobs, "dungeon" setting. I've got very nice item reward for
this quest, that I'm still wearing. Also, again, I'm on PvP server. Imagine my feelings I've pulled through dungeon, ascended mountain only to be
ambushed and killed by other player (that {Bio}tch got 78 coppers from me). I was like $$$$. Avenge! I've found this player and killed him in return.
Several times.

Social. This is big aspect of game, even more at PvP server. Here you have guilds (like linkshells) with leader and officers(pearlsacks). I'm in guild with
"high level players" - leader is lvl27 (it's A LOT). Our guild is at "peace pact" with some guilds, at war with other guilds. So for example if I meet
"EGG" guild member I should kill him if I can [cause his guild killed some our members first and we're at war with them].
There are various guilds, some are more "mature", some "less".
My one is based on "nationality" factor - russian guild, some are based on "omg let's go kill all that n00bs hahaha", some are "crafter guilds" etc.
You can have friendlist here, send /tell, /shout, /guild (tell in linkshell) etc. There are various emotes you can do like /dance, /smile, you can do "custom"
ones like "/emote hides in bushes." will be shown as "Greedalox hides in bushes.".

User interface. It's advanced. It's open and customizable (there are community-packs already). For example I'm using "DroxUI" pack and I love it - it shows
all the things I need in very convenient way.

And, OMG! You can ALT+TAB without 3rd party software.

You can macro things, this area is very advanced, just look at list of commands
http://vanguard.tentonhammer.com/index. ... p;ceid=495
Yet, there are no "wait" commands, devs say it's for "no-botting". There are no bots yet I'm aware of, no "farmers" and no "gilsellers".

Graphics. It's VERY good and VERY demanding. You can get feeling of it if I'll say "Oblivion-1 in mmorpg world". I've VERY advanced computer and still need
to turn off some graphic settings to get "good perfomance". You can see some screenshots here http://vanguard.tentonhammer.com/module ... albums.php

Another interesting thing about vanguard is "Auto-blogging" - for example look at my
character page http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/chara ... 1604415714
it was generated automatically, game even "logs" things like "you was first one on server to discover that"

Of course I can't say that "all is wonderful, all is shiny", there are "problems" too. Game is pretty new (released two weeks ago), it has bugs.
Some are technical - like mobs that fail below floor, crashes to desktop, low perfomance even on good computers etc. Some are "content" - like
some quests are broken, disbalance in pvp (like most powerful pvp character now is "cleric" - you just can't kill it lol).
But devs are working and game is very playable even now. I'm logging in and I'm always doing something "new" - fighing new mobs, going in "new" area,
meeting "good" and "bad" players, fighting them, running away from high-level players-thugs, harvesting, crafting. I'm enjoying it.

[Kiro]

WRONG SECTION SIR

[Norelco]

WRONG SECTION SIR

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite...hehe...

VIII. Backseat Modding
Moderators will move/lock topics as they deem necessary. People who post a response indicating that a topic should be in a different section will be banned.

And to stay on topic...I checked out Vanguard website and some movies. It looks pretty cool. How would you say the time devotion is to a game like this? Are there as many time sinks as FFXI?

[DraOfShiva]

WRONG SECTION SIR

In which one I should had post? I thought it's most appropriate cause I can't post in ffxi section - it's not about ffxi at all.

How would you say the time devotion is to a game like this?

I think it's more "hardcore" than WoW, less "hardcore" than FFXI. But I'm newb, take this in account.

Are there as many time sinks as FFXI?

So far I didn't encountered anything that annoyed me.
For example. Walking takes too much time? Buy mount (horse, flying wyvern, gear it) - seems reasonable to me.

"Get X items" quests doesn't take much time in fact - like 3-10 items that are 50-100% drops from mob.

Time sinks are part of every mmo game, if you get something too fast you don't feel "reward", you don't get "accomplishment" feeling. If it takes too long to get what you want then it's "annoying". So devs should find balance between this things.

[izembo]

shit game that they already tried giving away free copies to get people to play it

[othellojr]

As I read what you typed, it really is like a merge of EQ, WoW and FFXI, from the list of jobs, to the skills, etc you mentioned..at least I mean it in a good way, in that it sounds as if they took a combination of some of the good things from each game. Personally, I am not ready to give up FFXI just yet for some reason, I have WoW if I want to play it again, so another MMO just does not appeal to me.

[DraOfShiva]

shit game that they already tried giving away free copies to get people to play it

Can you post link where I can read about "free copies giving away"?
Devs gave some "free" game-keys, but for beta play (closed now).

[solsovly]

I was a big fan of EQ so this interested me. Just wish I could convince my FFXI friends to come try it with me.

[Gatsby]

Something makes me believe that this is a shill.. Why did the OP copypasta this to the alla main board?

[izembo]

i work at EB, they were giving them free to employees

[Norelco]

i work at EB, they were giving them free to employees

That's quite a difference than giving them away free to just anyone.

[izembo]

you dont realize, no one gives us free games, and even then, ppl were turning it down. we havent sold a single copy since it came out. no one wants it.

[Kaelan]

It's kinda boring right now cause most of the game settings aren't really tweaked yet. Like starting soloing one, sometimes two 2-3 dot mobs for the first few levels is ridiculously easy, especially with the tons low level quests to find. Then you get to your first dungeon and start grouping at level ~14 and have to handle like 3-5 4dot mobs at the same time, and when it's hard enough to kill one, and the game suddenly becomes near-impossible without the perfect setup.

I've had mobs aggro me before they were even in my screen range before, or other times when we pulled one mob on our side, and the entire other side of the room linked, despite not being anywhere near us(About the same distance as pulling a spider and linking Fafnir). At level 12 <_<;

The EXP curves are also terribly unbalanced for crafting and harvesting (I leveled considerably faster in my teens than I did under 10, for example). It's also still completly filled with tiny bugs and tons lag spikes that just generally make gameplaying annoying (which is expected I guess, since it did just come out).

It looks like it could be pretty good once they fixed most of the balancing and lag issues...I'd give that at least a couple months though, for now I'd rather go merit in FFXI, which doesn't kill me by lagging for nearly 30 seconds right as I engage a mob

[BRP]

Before I read this, I need someone to tell me: Is this full of grumpy FFXI-player comments? Its too early for me to be hearing that.

[cassiraa]

wow. That's the most intricate and well thought out forum bot I've ever seen!!!!!

[Tekki]

you dont realize, no one gives us free games, and even then, ppl were turning it down. we havent sold a single copy since it came out. no one wants it.

Yup same. We all had beta invites and a handful of our PC hardcores preordered and worked on the beta as well. All save one canceled, Including one of our own co-workers. The one that didnt cancel was some crazy lady who couldnt stop talking to me about how she was in love with her character. I didnt bother trying it out after hearing how the game was "meh" and not worth the price. One particular customer couldn't belive they finally posted a date and told me he was looking forward to this MMO for years, he was extremely excited about it and pre ordered the collector's and a regular. After playing the beta he told me it just wan't worth giving up on the current MMOs. It looks unpolished and the gameplay does not stand out at all. Now hes waiting for Cohnan and soon will be betaing LoTRO.

BTW, anyone read March's EGM and the article about online forum guerilla tactics by hired marketers lol. It was the first thing that popped in my mind when I read the OP's post.

[Ryany]

I think the level grind is more "hardcore" than WoW, less "hardcore" than FFXI. But I'm newb, take this in account.

I fixed because the endgame dedication requirement of MMORPGs can vary greatly from the level grind.

[Fhqwghads]

I played from closed beta through to open beta. At first it was nice and bright, shiny and new. Exciting, even. But, after one becomes indifferent to the "newness" of the title, it quickly becomes stale. There's no real interaction with party members. There's no reactionary combat. At least with FFXI you have chains that can you can build and burst off of. In Vanguard they are there, supposedly, but just try to get someone to work with you to pull it off. Good luck with that. Even then I don't think there's any sort of magic burst, so the only benefit is extra damage from the chain. Combat goes at the speed of light. Mobs don't have special moves, so there's no need for stunning, turning, or anything else. All fights basically boil down to clicking attacks as they become available.

The toons look poor. There's no feeling of attachment to your char, because you can't even really see it that well. Everything in the game, combat-wise, just feels rushed. It wasn't fun at all.

This doesn't even touch on the massive amounts of bugs the game had in it, all the way up to the day beta ended and the game went live. Was it a pretty game? Sure. Was it a fun game? Kinda, but not enough to sink a lot of time into. Maybe someone who likes WoW style gameplay will like the updated graphics, but for people who really like FFXI's level of combat this game fails to deliver.

[DraOfShiva]

Something makes me believe that this is a shill.. Why did the OP copypasta this to the alla main board?

Cause many BG users don't come to alla and I wanted to share info with "everybody"

wow. That's the most intricate and well thought out forum bot I've ever seen!!!!!

Lol thanks, I'll email this to my master, may be he'll give me some more yummy processor time next time as a reward.

Back to topic. Many ppl indeed find game "raw", but I don't mind. I'm playing it and having fun. That's enough for me. When there will be no fun in playing I'll try other one. But not LoTR - I don't like "bilbo-the-hobbit" setting. Age Of Conan looks good, but what quality will be that game when released? Personally I'm most interested in Gods and Heroes one. "fresh" setting, really cute "bosses" and very good graphics.

[Plow]

Two things made me give up on this game:

First, and primary, was the system requirements. I don't have a system that can play it, and I can't afford one right now.

The second I probably would have still given it a shot despite this if not for the req's, but this turned me off to it a lot.

Basically I was on the beta forums a lot. There were pretty much constant debates about "fun" vs "challenge" vs "unfun." It is my personal belief that mmorpg's are, in fact, games. However, it seemed that many of the old eq players argued that they are not actually games, but really worlds. As a result of wanting it to be more of a "world" than a "game," many people were very big on making sure there was plenty of stuff that was... not fun. At all.

And the devs seemed to be on their side.

/shrug my 2c