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  1. #1
    Sea Torques
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    Salvage Points System

    I started a Salvage shell on my server, but since it is such a new thing I didn't really have much to base a points system off of. Here is what I have, so I was looking for some constructive criticism, and also maybe some examples of what other LSes are doing. Here it is, copied and pasted from our LS forums:

    Ok, so our system is based both on Prio and Points. The points are done on a tier like system very similar to Dynamis. You recieve 1 point per run attended. The tiers go like so:

    1-4 points-Tier 1
    5-9 points-Tier 2
    10-14 points-Tier 3
    15-19 points-Tier 4
    etc.

    As for the priority system, each person picks ONE set they want. Only one. At the moment we do not know if you can only get one set at a time or one piece at a time, so it is best to assume that it is the former. Each piece requires 3 sub pieces, along with some buyable materials, to get. Each sub piece costs 5 points, and all three sub pieces for an item are considered to be on the same prio level. For instance, if you have Ares Cuirass as your #1 prio, then you can lot all three pieces, Enyo's Breastplate, Phobos Cuirass, and Deimos Cuirass, on Prio #1, and each of them costs 5 points. Once you pick your set, you prioritize the 5 pieces from most wanted to least wanted. For example, my set is Morrigan, and my prio goes like so:

    1. Morrigan Robe (body)
    2. Morrigan Pigaches (feet)
    3. Morrigan Cuffs (hands)
    4. Morrigan Slops (legs)
    5. Morrigan Coronel (head)


    So that is an explanation of the points and priority systems, now to explain how they work together. First of all, the priority system takes precedence over points. However, a system will be implemented for people to "buy back" priority levels. However, this will only allow you buy back the the number of priority levels equal to the number of items you have recieved. Confusing, yes, so let me give an example.

    Player 1 has Morrigan Robe for #1 and Morrigan Slops for #2. He has already recieved the Morrigan Robe.
    Player 2 has the same priority list, but has not recieved the Morrigan Robe.
    Player 3 has Morrigan Slops for #1, and has not recieved them.
    An item for Morrigan Slops drops. Players 1 and 3 can lot, but if Player 1 wins it will cost him/her more points than the regular number.
    Player 2 cannot lot because he has not gotten his #1 yet, therefore he cannot buy another item up to prio #1.


    Now let's say it was the same situation again, but Player 3 was not there. Player 1 could decide to lot against Player 2 for the item and pay the normal points, or to lot above Player 2 and pay more points. Player 2, however, does not have that choice.

    Player 1 has Marduk Tiara #2 and has recieved his #1.
    Player 2 has Marduk Tiara #3 and has recieved his #1.
    Player 3 has the same as Player 2 and has recieved his #1 and #2.
    Player 4 has Marduk Tiara #1.
    Players 1, 2, and 4 could lot. Player 1 has recieved 1 item, therefore he can move his prio up 1 level. Player 2 has only recieved 1 item, therefore he can only move his prio up 1 level instead of the 2 he would need to be able to lot. Player 3 has recieved 2 items, therefore he can move his prio up 2 levels.
    If Player 1 wins, he would pay more than normal points, but if Player 3 wins, then he would pay even more points than Player 1 would have.


    Note: The amount it costs to buy back priority levels has yet to be determined. We will figure it out before the system will be needed to be used.

    When there are several people on the same level of wishlist prio for a piece, then it is based off the point Tier of the people. Tier 1 is the lowest prio. Also, any person with 0 points cannot lot unless the item goes FFA. Here are some examples:

    Players 1, 2, and 3 all have Skadi Leather Armor chosen as their set.
    Player 4 has chosen Ares Plate Armor.
    A Njord Jerkin drops (for Skadi Body piece).
    Under no circumstances could Player 4 lot, because he hasn't picked Skadi Armor as his set.
    Now, Players 1 and 2 both have Skadi body as #1 Prio. Player 3 has it as #2.
    Player 1 has 6 points (Tier 2) and Player 2 has 4 (Tier 1), while Player 3 has 24 points (Tier 5).
    Player 1 would get to lot because he has the highest wishlist prio along with player 2, and he has the highest Tier point level.


    Player 1 has Ares Cuirass as #1 and 0 points.
    Player 2 has Ares Cuirass as #2 and 1 point (Tier 1).
    Player 2 gets to lot despite the wishlist prio because Player 1 doesn't have any points.


    If an item drops and everyone with that item on their wishlist has already recieved it, not including those with 0 points, then it will go FFA. However, any person with that item on their wishlist and 0 points gets a sort of "FFA priority." However, if a person with 0 points chooses to lot, then he/she will not recieve a point for that run. If there is no such person, then the item goes FFA to the whole group at the cost of 2 points, and you must have 2 points to lot.

    The last rule is called the "2/3 Rule." It allows those who are 2/3 for a piece to claim prio on the 3rd sub piece if it drops. However, the player must have at least 5 points to pay for the piece, and if he/she does not then it follows normal lotting rules. This priority transcends all others, provided the player has the points. If two players are 2/3 on the same piece, then the regular levels of priority are implemented on the two. For example:

    Players 1, 2, 3, and 4 all have Usukane as their set.
    All four have Usukane Haramaki as their #1 Prio.
    Players 1, 2, and 3 all are 2/3 on the Haramaki. The last piece they all need drops.
    Player 4 is only 1/3 on the Haramaki.
    Player 1 has 2 points (Tier 1). Player 2 has 5 points (Tier 2). Player 3 has 9 points (Tier 2). Player 4 has 25 points (Tier 6).
    Even though Player 4 has the most points, he cannot lot. The lot goes to Players 2 and 3, but not 1, because they both are on the same tier and have at least 5 points.


    So that is the lotting system. if you have any questions, feel free to PM me or talk to me in game.

    Thanks for your attention

  2. #2
    Old Merits
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    It was posted in another thread (in the Dynamis/Limbus/Salvage/Assault Section) that you are able to start a second set different from the first piece you completed. It has been tried.

  3. #3

    Point systems for shit like this fail hardcore.

  4. #4

    Re: Salvage Points System

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryushii
    At the moment we do not know if you can only get one set at a time or one piece at a time, so it is best to assume that it is the former.
    Dumbest argument I've ever heard. If it were one set at a time people would simply quit salvage anyway. Therefore it's best to assume the latter.


    Anyway points for Salvage are fairly retarded. All this is going to do is serve to distribute pieces among people instead of actually completing shit. We allow people to declare one set in their comment each run, the set can change with every run. If a piece from that set drops, it is free lot among people with the comment UNLESS someone is 2/3 on that set, in which case that person automatically gets it.

  5. #5
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    I think the only point system that really works is the "I point at you, and you lot" system.

  6. #6
    Sea Torques
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    Re: Salvage Points System

    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryushii
    At the moment we do not know if you can only get one set at a time or one piece at a time, so it is best to assume that it is the former.
    Dumbest argument I've ever heard. If it were one set at a time people would simply quit salvage anyway. Therefore it's best to assume the latter.


    Anyway points for Salvage are fairly retarded. All this is going to do is serve to distribute pieces among people instead of actually completing shit. We allow people to declare one set in their comment each run, the set can change with every run. If a piece from that set drops, it is free lot among people with the comment UNLESS someone is 2/3 on that set, in which case that person automatically gets it.
    Wait, I don't understand how yours serves to get more actual armor in peoples hands. From what I can tell, the items would get even more spread out if people could just pick whatever set they wanted all the time. Also, a points system is meant to help reward those who have put in more work over those who haven't or are newer. In your system, a person on his/her first run could outlot someone on their 100th.

    As for the whole "pick one set first thing," I figured it would be easier to change lotting rules from 1 set only to any pieces than to have to change it from many pieces to 1 set, because it would suck for someone to put an item they want for #1 from a set they don't care about as much, and then get locked into it. Also, thank you for the info, do you happen to have a link so I can see it myself?

  7. #7

    try reading the salvage board.

  8. #8
    Sea Torques
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    There's a salvage board?

    Odd, I swear that wasn't there before; I only saw Advanced discussion and New ppl discussion. Would any admins be kind enough to move this topic over to that forum?

  9. #9
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    Thing is, Salvage is more than just "go here, get this drop, and lot it".

    You need three pieces of gear to get an item, of which they are from three different areas. Some of these are 100% drop from NM's, some of these are 25% drop from NM, some of these are merely found throughout the area on the regular mobs, and some drop only off the boss.


    Its really complex to put a point system down on it.

  10. #10

    Re: Salvage Points System

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryushii
    Wait, I don't understand how yours serves to get more actual armor in peoples hands. From what I can tell, the items would get even more spread out if people could just pick whatever set they wanted all the time. Also, a points system is meant to help reward those who have put in more work over those who haven't or are newer. In your system, a person on his/her first run could outlot someone on their 100th.

    As for the whole "pick one set first thing," I figured it would be easier to change lotting rules from 1 set only to any pieces than to have to change it from many pieces to 1 set, because it would suck for someone to put an item they want for #1 from a set they don't care about as much, and then get locked into it. Also, thank you for the info, do you happen to have a link so I can see it myself?
    The thing is, there's a bottleneck in Salvage. The bottleneck is the Lv. 35 pieces. Bhaflau boss is beaten regularly now, and Silver Sea is getting that way. The system I described serves to get more finished products in people's hands because quite frankly, the 15 and 25 pieces dont' matter all that much. If someone gets whatever Level 35 piece, we can schedule runs around getting the other two pretty easily, If someone gets two of something, we can schedule runs around getting the Lv. 35 as often as needed until it drops, and we can be assured that the right person will get it because of the 2/3 priority.

  11. #11
    ¯\(°_o)/¯
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    If there's one thing BG hates, it's point systems.

  12. #12
    Melee Summoner
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa
    I think the only point system that really works is the "I point at you, and you lot" system.
    LOL I love it! Made me laugh. d^^

  13. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa
    I think the only point system that really works is the "I point at you, and you lot" system.
    Isn't this Wafik's point system? :(

  14. #14
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taj
    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa
    I think the only point system that really works is the "I point at you, and you lot" system.
    Isn't this Wafik's point system?
    yep :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Manaburn's website
    Shadow Items
    Shadow mantle is done by a point system. I point at you, you can cast lots. Shadow Ring is done via freelot, if you're in the zone and are eligable to lot for the week, feel free to lot it.

  15. #15

    That's actually weird lol, ring is more coveted than mantle typically.

  16. #16
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    I never said that point system was my creation...

    I just said that when it comes to Salvage, it really is the only point system that works.

  17. #17
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Quote Originally Posted by divisortheory
    That's actually weird lol, ring is more coveted than mantle typically.
    Ya, but I made these rules way back when mantle was omgosh and ring was /fart, I may look back into the rules and swap them around, but we hardly touch DL, waste of time, and the luckytime a ring dropped and it freelotted, a nin won


    Anyway re:Salvage point systems, I don't agree with salvage getting a point system. It's way too intimate toput points, especially when something drops that someone may or may not want. Especially after the pattern was found out, especially after finding out about the bosses impossibilities. (3 months and only BF killed consistently, SS somewhat decently).

  18. #18
    Sagacious Sundi
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa
    I think the only point system that really works is the "I point at you, and you lot" system.
    I swear that said "I point at you and laugh" system (as a mocking of point systems) when I first read it. But then I reread it and realized it was Wafik's thing.

  19. #19

    I'm not a bandwagon point-hater, in fact in general HNM situation I'm of the opinion that a good points-based LS can fair just as well as or better than a good "leader decides" LS, but I do suspect that points for salvage gear is prone to failure due to the nature of the encounter. There's already the fact that you limit people to only one set, but even if you took out that restriction, I fear that your system would still have difficulties.

    You're dealing with two main obstacles, the first that people have already mentioned being that you don't get the drop and then are immediately able to use it. The second--and I think more problematic--being that you can't reasonably have exclusivity. Dynamis is only twice a week, you can say "both times a week you have to run with this LS"; many HNMLSs have a policy "you can't fight these HNMs with any other group". You likely can't have a policy like that with your salvage, due to the fact that your members will be accumulating Assault Points at vastly different rates. Some will only spam Golden Salvage 6 times a week, and be able to come 2-3 events per week, some will spam higher tier assaults 6-7 times per week and be able to do 4-5 runs. Some people will want to spend some of their AP on Yigit and Palawahn so won't be able to attend as much, etc. As soon as people in a points-based system are given the option to obtain armor outside of the system, it bodes poorly for the system itself, but at the same time it's not really fair of you to prohibit people with sufficient AP and motivation from doing outside runs.

  20. #20
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    I think the only point system that really works is the "I point at you, and you lot" system.
    That's actually the point system I use. It falls in line with rule #3 of my Salvage group:

    "Shut up and listen to Ayn."

    I'd have to say it has worked beautifully so far.

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