dex/crit relation, WS crits, WS gorgets discussion

[Keno]

even if he parsed on 150+ mobs , there s still a bit of randomness

60DEX compared to 37 is 23 DEX => 2.3 crit~

Raven was 27-29 in his parse , Vann was 29-30, vaan still have better crit from his +60DEX

but there s still something weird about those results, not how they were done , but some crit comes from nowhere

The whole point of this is that he proved the 10DEX/1%crit theory wrong... He said with +61DEX gear he got 29% crit, an increase of about 13% crit from only about an increase of 31 dex (from TP'ing in Osode, Rajas, B. Haidate=30DEX for TP normally)... Thats about 2.2DEX/1%crit... Meaning if Raven was parsing about 28% crits with 37DEX he would be parsing about 45% crits with a full dex build and Maat's cap.

[Saga]

even if he parsed on 150+ mobs , there s still a bit of randomness

60DEX compared to 37 is 23 DEX => 2.3 crit~

Raven was 27-29 in his parse , Vann was 29-30, vaan still have better crit from his +60DEX

but there s still something weird about those results, not how they were done , but some crit comes from nowhere

The whole point of this is that he proved the 10DEX/1%crit theory wrong... He said with +61DEX gear he got 29% crit, an increase of about 13% crit from only about an increase of 31 dex (from TP'ing in Osode, Rajas, B. Haidate=30DEX for TP normally)... Thats about 2.2DEX/1%crit... Meaning if Raven was parsing about 28% crits with 37DEX he would be parsing about 45% crits with a full dex build and Maat's cap.

oh, alright. i apologize, i read it as attempting to disprove the Maat's Cap crit bonus theory, not necessarily disproving the crit%/DEX ratio.

[Keno]

even if he parsed on 150+ mobs , there s still a bit of randomness

60DEX compared to 37 is 23 DEX => 2.3 crit~

Raven was 27-29 in his parse , Vann was 29-30, vaan still have better crit from his +60DEX

but there s still something weird about those results, not how they were done , but some crit comes from nowhere

The whole point of this is that he proved the 10DEX/1%crit theory wrong... He said with +61DEX gear he got 29% crit, an increase of about 13% crit from only about an increase of 31 dex (from TP'ing in Osode, Rajas, B. Haidate=30DEX for TP normally)... Thats about 2.2DEX/1%crit... Meaning if Raven was parsing about 28% crits with 37DEX he would be parsing about 45% crits with a full dex build and Maat's cap.

oh, alright. i apologize, i read it as attempting to disprove the Maat's Cap crit bonus theory, not necessarily disproving the crit%/DEX ratio.

Well it was to disprove the Maat's cap theory, but inadvertantly he disproved the crit/dex theory instead... I still think the Maat's cap theory is viable as per the calculations I did in my previous post, quoted here.

[Xno]

Its why there might be a story of "tier" , when you exceed a certain amount of DEX , the critical hit rate "jump" like :

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1...dexcritpq7.png

I cant test it because i dont have voyager sallet , money for Thunder ring etc...

[Keno]

Its why there might be a story of "tier" , when you exceed a certain amount of DEX , the critical hit rate "jump" like :

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1...dexcritpq7.png

I cant test it because i dont have voyager sallet , money for Thunder ring etc...

Either way it's a good thing. If there is this tier than people can significantly improve their parse by adding more dex in spots where they would normally put attack or accuracy (Thunder rings instead of snipers, etc.) while keeping a haste build and potentially doubling their crit rate.

And if there is no tier then it's good because Maat's Cap has a cool hidden effect.

Win/win

[Zirk]

So Maat's Cap is still junk.

I dunno, Raven's gear set only gave him +37 DEX... So you had to nearly double the amount of dex you added to get the same effectiveness of crits? I still think theres something to Maat's cap, otherwise your +60ish DEX should have outcrit'd his +37DEX (in Maat's cap). But as shown, your crits are nearly the same as his...

maybe this goes back to the idea that there is a crit tier you break after stacking a certain amount of dex, but stacking anymore wont do anything (significantly) unless its enough to break another tier- if it exists

This could be true, I also think that somewhere along the line there definatly has to be a critical hit cap. I think that the higher the mobs agility, the harder it is to land critical hit, thus lower level mobs should yield higher crit rates (no testing, but I'm gonna /Chiz it and say I think they do), and SE can't have lvl 75's running around with 40-50% crit rates on easy prey or easier mobs, so its possible the crit cap is around 30% or so, and me and Raven are getting close to it.

Edit: and yeah, normal attack/haste setup would be way better than all DEX setup in exp, as being speculated though, if there is a tier to break then maybe a slight combo of dex/attack/haste could be pretty worthwhile, assuming you don't have to sacrifice too much attack/haste to break the tier, but it's looking like you do

[Keno]

So Maat's Cap is still junk.

I dunno, Raven's gear set only gave him +37 DEX... So you had to nearly double the amount of dex you added to get the same effectiveness of crits? I still think theres something to Maat's cap, otherwise your +60ish DEX should have outcrit'd his +37DEX (in Maat's cap). But as shown, your crits are nearly the same as his...

maybe this goes back to the idea that there is a crit tier you break after stacking a certain amount of dex, but stacking anymore wont do anything (significantly) unless its enough to break another tier- if it exists

This could be true, I also think that somewhere along the line there definatly has to be a critical hit cap. I think that the higher the mobs agility, the harder it is to land critical hit, thus lower level mobs should yield higher crit rates (no testing, but I'm gonna /Chiz it and say I think they do), and SE can't have lvl 75's running around with 40-50% crit rates on easy prey or easier mobs, so its possible the crit cap is around 30% or so, and me and Raven are getting close to it.

Edit: and yeah, normal attack/haste setup would be way better than all DEX setup in exp, as being speculated though, if there is a tier to break then maybe a slight combo of dex/attack/haste could be pretty worthwhile.

Well still, even if there is a critical cap the two outcomes (Maat's Cap has hidden crit+ effect /// or /// Dex/Crit% has a tier) still are undecided. More testing has to be done, because if there is a crit tier this is quite an amazing discovery, regardless of the cap (because we know the cap is at least 30%).

Edit: Back to Zirk and the crit tier. If your normal TP gear gives around 16% of crit from DEX+30 and your DEX+61 gear gave around 29% crit then that means the tier which Raven also hit with +37 DEX (assuming Maat's cap has no effect) wouldn't make you switch but maybe 1 or 2 items out for DEX+ items.

[Khamsin]

I don't recall, but what camp was Ravenlokk at? Was he also at Greater Colibris?

[Keno]

I don't recall, but what camp was Ravenlokk at? Was he also at Greater Colibris?

From other thread

All the parses are on GREATER COLIBRI as MNK/WAR.

And no, I didn't make "GREATER COLIBRI" upper case to be a douche, he wrote it like that, lol.

[Xno]

I dunno, Raven's gear set only gave him +37 DEX...

I read again raven post , he didnt have +37 DEX

7 maat cap
10 osode
10 rajas+ thunder
15 byakko
4 AF2 mnk feet
6 sushi

=> +52 DEX , compared to the 61 of vann

[Keno]

I dunno, Raven's gear set only gave him +37 DEX...

I read again raven post , he didnt have +37 DEX

7 maat cap
10 osode
10 rajas+ thunder
15 byakko
4 AF2 mnk feet
6 sushi

=> +52 DEX , compared to the 61 of vann

Didn't he say Rajas+Flame? And to quote him:

i was running out of food- or not using it regularly.

So more like 41, I missed the dex from AF2 feet.

[Xno]

I know Raven hes in my LS , i think when he said thunder/flame + rajas , he meant thunder for melee then flame for Ws

[Keno]

I know Raven hes in my LS , i think when he said thunder/flame + rajas , he meant thunder for melee then flame for Ws

Oh if that's the case, 46 DEX. Still significant if there is a tier than it can be reached at that level of +DEX. We need more tests, tell his ass to get online.

[Khamsin]

I don't recall, but what camp was Ravenlokk at? Was he also at Greater Colibris?

From other thread

All the parses are on GREATER COLIBRI as MNK/WAR.

And no, I didn't make "GREATER COLIBRI" upper case to be a douche, he wrote it like that, lol.

Ah, I checked the first two pages of that thread but didn't feel like sifting through the next 6 pages to find it.

[Keno]

I don't recall, but what camp was Ravenlokk at? Was he also at Greater Colibris?

From other thread

All the parses are on GREATER COLIBRI as MNK/WAR.

And no, I didn't make "GREATER COLIBRI" upper case to be a douche, he wrote it like that, lol.

Ah, I checked the first two pages of that thread but didn't feel like sifting through the next 6 pages to find it.

It was on the second page:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewto ... c&start=30

About halfway down.

[Xno]

that still doesnt explain how just by removing his maat cap , his critical drop from 28-30 to 23 >.>

With maat caap , he has 122 DEX

without , 115 DEX

Maybe the cap is 120 DEX ? past this value you have a ~5% crit bonus ?

Difficultly believable

[Keno]

that still doesnt explain how just by removing his maat cap , his critical drop from 30~ to 23 >.>

With maat caap , he has 122 DEX

without , 115 DEX

Maybe the cap is 120 DEX ? past this value you have a 5% crit bonus ?

Difficultly believable

Yeah it doesn't make a ton of sense unless the crit tier is hovering somewhere right around that amount of DEX... Personally given the evidence we do have I think the cap does give crit%+, but it's hard to decide without further evidence.

Possibly on the next runs the sample size can be larger so we can rule out a little of the variation.

[Zirk]

that still doesnt explain how just by removing his maat cap , his critical drop from 28-30 to 23 >.>

With maat caap , he has 122 DEX

without , 115 DEX

Maybe the cap is 120 DEX ? past this value you have a ~5% crit bonus ?

Difficultly believable

Yeah this is still something I was trying to explain, all I can come up with is that 7 dex was needed to break the tier, if there is one. According to that stat determination tool thing, 75 taru and hume monks have same base dex with no SJ, so if we are both /war its safe to assume we are still the same base dex if not +/- 1 off, either way its insignificant.

Once I get some time I'm gonna try to run another parse at greater colibri camp with me having the exact same total dex w/ food as Raven when he's wearing his Maat's Cap and see if I still come out at 28-30% crit rate.

I was going to say with the evidence of me and Raven having roughly the same 29% crit rate when he's got Maat's cap on and me having only 10-15 more dex at least proves that Maat's cap isn't a full 7% bonus, but I realized that if 30% is indeed a crit cap, Raven could have been over 30% but not seen it in the parse, hence why I want to try the above test.

[BRP]

Anyone who thinks SE put in Maat's Cap for stats really missed the point. It is a trophy. I think it's even joked on by SE, because you get the hat instead of a Ridil. It's like comparing the San d'Orian Flag to Rajas Ring.

[Zirk]

BRP gtfo, that's the kind of post thats going to start more derailage