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  1. #61
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoduso
    But Rinoa fights Ultimecia... and why would there be multiple timelines?

    And at the end it shows Squall waking up, meaning that he didn't die after the time compression, although I never understood that scene where Rinoa finds him and everything lights up and he wakes up... and at the end credits with the wedding/whatever it is, it shows squall and rinoa out on the balcony at the end, so they're both back and together.

    I guess I just don't get it heh... or it's because I haven't played FF8 in such a long time.


    EDIT: Also, I thought time compression brought past present and future together... if that's the case, how is it that Rinoa and Ultimecia can stand next to each other, let alone try to kill each other in the final battle?
    Time Paradox what?

  2. #62
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoduso
    But Rinoa fights Ultimecia... and why would there be multiple timelines?

    And at the end it shows Squall waking up, meaning that he didn't die after the time compression, although I never understood that scene where Rinoa finds him and everything lights up and he wakes up... and at the end credits with the wedding/whatever it is, it shows squall and rinoa out on the balcony at the end, so they're both back and together.

    I guess I just don't get it heh... or it's because I haven't played FF8 in such a long time.


    EDIT: Also, I thought time compression brought past present and future together... if that's the case, how is it that Rinoa and Ultimecia can stand next to each other, let alone try to kill each other in the final battle?
    You also see Squall with kid Squall during the time compression, before Ultimecia passes her powers to Edea. Rinoa and Ultimecia co-existing during time compression doesn't make any less sense than that.

    There doesn't have to be an alternate time-line, that's just the way I perceived it when I first played the game. Asides from something happening to Squall after the game, the ending of FFVIII could have been the end of the Ultimecia time loop. Basically it went like this:

    Ultimecia transfers her powers to Edea during time compression -> Edea becomes sorceress, creates seed, eventually transfers powers to Rinoa -> ??? -> Ultimecia becomes sorceress, is eventually defeated and transfers powers to Edea during time compression -> etc

    If you assume Ultimecia is just future Rinoa, and in previous time loop(s) Squall didn't return after the time compression (Rinoa didn't save him), that would cause Rinoa to become Ultimecia. Than when Rinoa saves Squall, the time loop is broken, since she never becomes Ultimecia. There's a million ways you can look at it.

    EDIT: Something else I remembered: Rinoa as a sorceress had white feathered wings, and Ultimecia had nearly identical black feathered wings. Neither Edea or Adel had anything similar.

  3. #63
    Ridill
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2003/q2/062303dcb.html

    This guy makes more sense than Rinoa being Ultimecia, but assuming that she IS, then Square really should make a sequel game lol..

  4. #64
    Xavier
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura
    The Boss (aka The Joy) from MGS3.
    Such a tragedy.

  5. #65

    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Adding to non-RPGs. Solo Wing Pixy from Ace Combat Zero. Epic fight, I felt for him and understood what he was talking about. I love Ace Combat.

  6. #66
    Xavier
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Krelian, from Xenogears.

    "Why did she have to be sacrificed? Is god dead...? Is he just not there...? Maybe god never existed to begin with! ... If god doesn't exist in our world, then... I will create god with my own hands!"

    -------------------------------

    He was similar to how I saw Cid and Vayne in FF12, I felt sympathetic to their goals, despite them being portrayed as villains.

  7. #67
    Ridill
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Dr. Cid is the fucking shit, way better than all those dumbasses from FF8/9/X/XI (7's was awesome naturally.. oh and the SNES ones were kind of awesome as well)

    On another note, I just noticed that in the Black Mage's version of "The man with the machine gun", at approx. 2:26 they added a part of the original "The legendary beast" music in, makes it sound badass.... god I miss FF8/9's music, X/X-2/12's sucked ass...

    EDIT: here's what i'm referring to.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=JF9_9-fbHj4
    EDIT2: lol @ Uematsu on the organ..

  8. #68
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    One of the many reasons that FFT is so great is that everyone is like "Well, this character was sympathetic - do they qualify as a villian? They kinda did bad stuff for a while there...I think." Everyone's shifting alliances, stemming naturally from the story, made that game brilliant. The "bad" characters just seemed more like IRL assholes or pompous jerks, not evil overlords. Everyone is so human it doesn't get into a good vs. evil dichotomy.

    It's not hard to view that game and say "man, Ramza is a villian" depending on the point of view. When you kill the thieves in Sand Rat Cellar - are you doing a good thing or not?

    God that game is awesome.

  9. #69
    Xavier
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Final Fantasy Tactics was such an amazing game, that it actually has me wanting a PSP now. Not going to buy one, but its a dramatic shift from complete and utter indifference I used to have for the system.

  10. #70
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Magus rom Chrono Trigger

    Harle from Chroo Cross



    Both are ambiguous in what drives them, never evident until late in the game, even after joining the group, thy're shady, but damn cool in my book.

  11. #71
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Kain from FFVI. The guy is fucked several different ways. On one hand he's in love with Rosa, yet has to sit back and watch and live with the fact that she'll never feel the same way about him since she's in love with his best friend. Then, he's got this whole deep-seeded inner-loathing because Golbez is controlling him, and that in turn forsakes his honor as a dragon-knight. Then on top of that, his king was killed by Golbez, the very guy he's being brainwashed into working for. I'll admit I don't remember a part of the game when Kain actually laments that King Baron was killed, but I'd imagine anyone in his position would.

    And yeah, sorry for bringing up Kain even though he's technically not a permanent villain, but I just feel his character is much richer and more interesting than the male leads from most other FF titles.

  12. #72
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoduso
    The organization from KH2... especially Axel.
    I have to agree there, I actully started liking some of the organization XIII, first game in a long while where I actully felt connected to the story.

    Which is even more surprising how its partly based upon the hellspawn that is disney.

    That and albedo, theres just something about villains that have a pyschotic streak that always draws me in. Oh, and

    "Run Run or you'll be well done!" <3 Kefka

  13. #73
    Ridill
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Albedo

  14. #74
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Fou-Lu, from Breath of Fire IV.

  15. #75
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    First, Cain was in IV, not VI.

    Second, King Baron may or may not have been killed. It kinda depends on how you interpret that scene at the Odin optional fight. From what I can remember, either he was possessed by Odin when Golbez took over or he was really Odin all along, and was forced into hiding for some reason. Kinda hard to extrapolate a real answer from 5 lines of dialogue.

    Third, most or all of the villains in XII were supposed to be ambiguous. It was really a big part of what they were going I think.

  16. #76
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoduso
    Albedo
    Young Albedo maybe, but the older one was a sick sick sick person Rank up there with kefka in the "list of villains I don't want to meet on the street".

  17. #77
    Ridill
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylia
    Quote Originally Posted by Exoduso
    Albedo
    Young Albedo maybe, but the older one was a sick sick sick person Rank up there with kefka in the "list of villains I don't want to meet on the street".
    wtf? Adult Albedo is fucking amazing, my favorite character in the series heh... and he IS kind of sympathetic BECAUSE of his childhood and all the events that led up to him being that sadistic. Plus he's kind of sort of ending up being a good guy in XS2/3.

  18. #78
    Chram
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    Re: Most sympathetic RPG villains

    Lloyd from Legend of Dragoon, that poor bastard.

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