Subtle Blow Spells

[Cephius]

Sorry if this is OFN, but after randomly browsing around the Wiki I noticed an entry stating that Subtle Blow, despite its description, also applies to spells. So my questions are...

Does this apply to only Blue Magic/Physical Spells or everything?
Would this give Monk's Roll a viable use in manaburn situations?
Has anyone done tests in Ballista to see how much of a TP reduction it would give to spells?

Thanks.

[LD]

It applies to everything, the cap is +50, meaning it can cut TP given in half.
If manaburns cared about TP, they wouldn't be so pupular, so MNK's roll in a manaburn is considered asinine compared to the BLM or SMN rolls.

[Cephius]

It applies to everything, the cap is +50, meaning it can cut TP given in half.
If manaburns cared about TP, they wouldn't be so pupular, so MNK's roll in a manaburn is considered asinine compared to the BLM or SMN rolls.

Perhaps I should have been more specific as to what manaburns I was talking about. I'm not talking XP, I'm talking about HNM manaburns namely Ouryu, Tiamat, Fafhogg lowman, ect.

[LD]

Again, probably not.
Nukes already have a great damage to TP ratio, so improving damage would take precedent.

[evilpaul]

If a mob is using TP moves in a manaburn party you're doing it wrong.

[Shuemue]

If a mob is using TP moves in a manaburn party you're doing it wrong.

GG reading the thread properly before posting a smug comment.

He clarified and stated the situations he was musing about.

[Cephius]

Again, probably not.
Nukes already have a great damage to TP ratio, so improving damage would take precedent.

Well, take Oruyu for example. And for this example, lets say 5 out of your 8 blms can achieve 330 elemental skill without the use of stupid items (like ice ring, ect). The normal rolls for blm are wizards/warlocks. With that high elemental skill, and assuming Monk's Roll gives a significant amount of Subtle Blow, it may be beneficial to replace warlock's with Monk's no? Especially since it's difficult to position Oruyu in a way that it's TP moves don't hit the alliance.

Just throwing it out there

[Shuemue]

Ouryu is pretty much a pussy in the air, and while he's grounded he should be fast asleep.

[MisterBob]

It's an interesting concept, but most likely not too useful in practice.
Unless I'm mistaken, all direct-damage spells give the mob 10 TP normally.
Lets say somehow you manage to actually get +25 subtle blow on a BLM (you won't, lol). Your nukes now add 7.5TP per.
While Ouryu is asleep on the ground, you'll probably land around 12 nukes in a true manaburn, which is 90 TP for Ouryu, as opposed to the 120 that you would have given it. Either way, it wasn't going to WS just based on your one round of nukes alone. (Mobs rarely WS as soon as they get 100 TP, unless their HP is low). This means that Ouryu will most likely be TPing from your second round of nukes, or from a couple of hits in the air, regardless of your Subtle Blow.
And, this is an extreme situation, you're not going to have +25 Subtle Blow on BLMs just from a roll, at least as far as I'm aware.

[Spekkio]

i might see it as being applicable to some multi-hit BLU spells, such as bludgeon (obviously there's no subtle blow gear for blu at that lvl, but that's just an example) which just seem to drown the mob in TP. that might be interesting to explore, but for blm nukes, when you consider the damage you'd lose by loading up on the store TP gear in relation to the TP gained from nukes, the tp/damage ratio would at best stay the same.

[evilpaul]

If a mob is using TP moves in a manaburn party you're doing it wrong.

GG reading the thread properly before posting a smug comment.

He clarified and stated the situations he was musing about.

Yeah, I read it, I know. Half of the things he said you can throw SMNs at and make TP a non-issue. The other half Subtle Blow +24 or +36 best case scenario isn't going to be as useful as nukes that give 3 more TP but hit for full (and higher) damage killing faster.

If people are worried about giving a mob TP that kind of rules out multi-hit BLU spells by default.

[Cephius]

If a mob is using TP moves in a manaburn party you're doing it wrong.

GG reading the thread properly before posting a smug comment.

He clarified and stated the situations he was musing about.

Yeah, I read it, I know. Half of the things he said you can throw SMNs at and make TP a non-issue. The other half Subtle Blow +24 or +36 best case scenario isn't going to be as useful as nukes that give 3 more TP but hit for full (and higher) damage killing faster.

If people are worried about giving a mob TP that kind of rules out multi-hit BLU spells by default.

You're joking right? A manaburned Oruyu is about 50x faster than "throwing SMNs at it". I'm not looking for alternative methods of killing something, I'm looking for ways to improve on one of the fastest ways.

[evilpaul]

If a mob is using TP moves in a manaburn party you're doing it wrong.

GG reading the thread properly before posting a smug comment.

He clarified and stated the situations he was musing about.

Yeah, I read it, I know. Half of the things he said you can throw SMNs at and make TP a non-issue. The other half Subtle Blow +24 or +36 best case scenario isn't going to be as useful as nukes that give 3 more TP but hit for full (and higher) damage killing faster.

If people are worried about giving a mob TP that kind of rules out multi-hit BLU spells by default.

You're joking right? A manaburned Oruyu is about 50x faster than "throwing SMNs at it". I'm not looking for alternative methods of killing something, I'm looking for ways to improve on one of the fastest ways.

...

Fine, I'll spell it out for you:

Perhaps I should have been more specific as to what manaburns I was talking about. I'm not talking XP, I'm talking about HNM manaburns namely Ouryu, Tiamat, Fafhogg lowman, ect.

Throw BLMs at Ouryu. Throw SMNs at Tiamat+Fafhogg if you want to keep them from getting TP.

[fantasticdan]

I remember reading a test that concluded subtle blow had no effect on tp given by physical blue magic. That was quite a long time ago, idk if it's been fixed since than.