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Thread: PLD Gear questions     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
    Bagel
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    PLD Gear questions

    Okay, so this may sound stupid but while camping Aspid a little drama unfolds and somehow it turns out into talking about how Martial Body is so amazing. Then I go over to Tiamat and end up watching another LS killing it. They're using PLD/NIN to tank it, but one of them is using M.Body while tanking Tiamat. So this got me thinking a bit, and wondering if M.Body is actually useful. Right now I don't have an M.Body and I haven't wanted one since I got my Valor Surcoat because I felt it was the best body piece out of the two. I realise that M.Body may have its uses with PLD/WAR, but still wouldn't Valor Surcoat be a better choice? HP+23 and Enmity +4 seems like a much better choice on PLD/WAR when you're getting smacked around for 150-200 DMG. I mean 60 HP and lolVIT can only take you so far, and what's the use of it when you can't keep hate? So is M.Body useful at all for PLD?

    Also, on PLD/NIN right now I've been using Walahra Turban instead of Aegishjalmr. The only other Haste% gears I have are Swift Belt and Homam Hands. Which head piece should I be using?

  2. #2
    Pandemonium
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    I find that, as long as you have about +30 enmity or so in gear/merits, you can start start sacrificing some for haste. Honestly I don't think M body is useful for anything except PLD/WAR tanking. I don't have M. Body or Valor yet, and I thought my gear would be lacking as a result but even AF1 body or Adaman do the job as well as those other two options. The only reason I could think of using M.Body in a PLD/NIN tanking situation is if you feel you really need the extra HP. But you're right, in most cases enmity wins. If you're concerned about haste, I still wouldn't sub out Aegisjalmr just because it's so much enmity it allows you to put haste in other slots. However, you can't buy much since almost all the +haste items PLD gets are homan. I would just make do with Aegishelm/Homan Hands/Swift belt until you can get your hands on Homan hands or feet.

    All you need really is a bahamut mask and homan feet and legs to have an optimal PLD/NIN setup. Forget the hype about M.Body, its not great at all.

  3. #3

    Re: PLD Gear questions

    I still wouldn't sub out Aegisjalmr just because it's so much enmity it allows you to put haste in other slots. However, you can't buy much since almost all the +haste items PLD gets are homan.
    Loq. earring, Dusk feet / hands (tho you mention having homam hands already) are all good options for extra haste, and all readily avaliable.

  4. #4
    Corwens a slot
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Get relic shield, bahamut's mask, throw some haste/enmity on then you can wear w/e you want and it wont matter. Hate's never really a problem unless you are getting hit hard or solo tanking something like cerberus. Not gonna say af2 body isn't better than koenig for tanking /nin, but some times i'm just lazy and forget to take my af2 out. Only af2 I wear is body anyway, wopping 4enmity lost.

  5. #5
    Chram
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Talis
    I still wouldn't sub out Aegisjalmr just because it's so much enmity it allows you to put haste in other slots. However, you can't buy much since almost all the +haste items PLD gets are homan.
    Loq. earring, Dusk feet / hands (tho you mention having homam hands already) are all good options for extra haste, and all readily avaliable.
    small nitpick: loq. is fast cast, not haste. and anyone with readily available loq's has access to homam too (well. ok, you could just buy the ancient coins without ever participating in limbus but that seems.. unnecessary considering how useful homam is for paladin in general.)

  6. #6
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Amele
    Quote Originally Posted by Talis
    I still wouldn't sub out Aegisjalmr just because it's so much enmity it allows you to put haste in other slots. However, you can't buy much since almost all the +haste items PLD gets are homan.
    Loq. earring, Dusk feet / hands (tho you mention having homam hands already) are all good options for extra haste, and all readily avaliable.
    small nitpick: loq. is fast cast, not haste. and anyone with readily available loq's has access to homam too (well. ok, you could just buy the ancient coins without ever participating in limbus but that seems.. unnecessary considering how useful homam is for paladin in general.)
    May be mistaken but I think fastcast effects the recast time of spells as well.. dont remember when I read it, was a long time ago.

    1 thread down: Loquac. and Rostrum are 2% off cast timer, 1% off recast.

  7. #7

    Re: PLD Gear questions

    I realise that M.Body may have its uses with PLD/WAR, but still wouldn't Valor Surcoat be a better choice? HP+23 and Enmity +4 seems like a much better choice on PLD/WAR when you're getting smacked around for 150-200 DMG. I mean 60 HP and lolVIT can only take you so far, and what's the use of it when you can't keep hate? So is M.Body useful at all for PLD?
    For /WAR doing dynamis or something you might use it. MNK/WAR are just going to rip hate off you pretty quickly regardless of what you're wearing, so might as well try to lighten the cure load a bit from your WHM. For HNM where you're always going to be PLD/NIN it's AF2 body all the way. Our two oldest PLD both have m.body. It's now just macro gear for both of them for when shadows go down and they'll be hit, using Rampart, and as +max HP gear for self-cures. Otherwise, AF2 body is just, well, too nice. If you don't have Valor Surcoat I can understand giving up only 2 enmity for an extra 40 HP since the tradeoff in other slots is easy to make up for. But +4 enmity in the body slot is just too hard to match anywhere else really. There's a lot of PLD on Lakshmi who still use m.body though, including ones with Surcoat.

    They also happen to be the ones that wear Fortitude Torque while wearing Aegis.

  8. #8
    Tom Wilson will never be good.
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Shit is situational.

    As a Taru I would love the HP Boost on M.Body for those fights with crazy ass moves (ie, Ultima Antimatter, Wire Cutter, etc) The extra HP would give me some more breathing room and people wouldn't panic with me being Taru and all. Personally, I already hold hate incredibly well imo. Having said that, I still would love Valor Surcoat cause it is sexy as hell.

    People who say lolM.Body and shit are just idiots. At the moment I tank incredibly well in fcking Adaman (Gallant Surcoat+1 on Sunday!) so having either AF2 Body or M.Body could be an improvement in my eyes. M.Body isn't al that for some but HP isn't a bad thing to have, you just need to make sure you are holding hate fine before you add some HP gear.

    I just tanked like half the pop item NMs in Sky wearing a Hauby+1 cause I forgot to take it off after popping them.

  9. #9

    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Amele
    Quote Originally Posted by Talis
    I still wouldn't sub out Aegisjalmr just because it's so much enmity it allows you to put haste in other slots. However, you can't buy much since almost all the +haste items PLD gets are homan.
    Loq. earring, Dusk feet / hands (tho you mention having homam hands already) are all good options for extra haste, and all readily avaliable.
    small nitpick: loq. is fast cast, not haste. and anyone with readily available loq's has access to homam too (well. ok, you could just buy the ancient coins without ever participating in limbus but that seems.. unnecessary considering how useful homam is for paladin in general.)
    As mentioned above fast cast = decrease in recast time, which for a pld is the primary concern when considering haste (not attacking faster, at least not for HNM).

    The point was all of these items are easily purchased (including coins for loq. if need be), and don't require luck of the drops to obtain. Of course Homam is the goal, but its worth pointing out options avaliable until homam drops / you come up on priority.

  10. #10
    That SpellCast Guy
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Ares's Cuirass is a pretty strong option for body piece now too, in my opinion. HP+3% should be comparable to the HP from M.body, VIT+12, and an extra auto-refresh.

    And with my LS's luck both in claiming kings and in Dynamis-Xarcabard, getting Ares's is probably more likely than either of the other two.

  11. #11
    E. Body
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    I often like to use enmity gear over haste gear. Its personal preference really and both choices get you to the same result. Although I think most people are under the impression that you NEED haste gear to be a good PLD/NIN which is totally untrue, they just grew up in the "haste" era where everything was possible with more haste gear.

    As far as bodies go. Valor Surcoat is the one you want. Over Koenig, AF1+1 and Ares's in my opinion. You get the +4 enmity, which isn't that much but still good for keeping hate along with a little bit of HP. The real gem is the Cover effect. If you have any experience using cover, it's an extraordinary tool. Especially on mobs like Jormungand, Tiamat, or Ouryu while they are in the air. You can basically spam Cure IV on yourself and the MP comes right back. But alas, everything is macro'd. Koenig for when shadows are down, Surcoat when shadows are up. But if it came down to it, I'd take a Surcoat over a Koenig Body any day.

  12. #12
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Naramaska
    They also happen to be the ones that wear Fortitude Torque while wearing Aegis.
    If I had one i'd wear it, on cerberus and faf for sure. I dont have a problem building tp, on cerb you can probably throw down 3-4 300% spirits over the course of a fight. Aegis needs roughly 300 skill.... w/ boxers, merits, and af1+1 feet you dont need any more shield gear to reach that. Can take away the af1+1 feet add homam feet and a shield torque as well. Not everything about holding hate is based on enmity and haste. If you wear homam hands/legs and a fort torque, you wont have a problem hitting faf or cerb.

  13. #13
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    depends on your co-tank, if you have one. the main PLD that I co-tank with 90% of the time doesn't have AF2 body, so we just match up enmity and use Koenig body full time, dont seem to notice the difference. if your solo tanking, i'd take AF2 body over koenig any day tho.

    but like everybody said, shits situational just dont be a moron about it

  14. #14
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    I just macro in Mbody when shadows are down, and when /war of course. I'd much rather have valor surcoat though, and I always thought I'd get that first...but I have some crazy luck in dragon's aery lol

  15. #15
    Yoshi P
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    If you're low-manning, solo tanking, duo-tanking or not using many melee DDs, use K. Body. No reason not to, -4 enmity won't lower your hate enough to put someone above you who wouldn't already have been. If you've got a full group and you might lose hate, obviously Valor Surcoat is better because of the enmity.

    As for Walahra Turban vs. Bahamut's Mask/Aegishjalmr, it's also pretty much the same argument. If you don't have a Haste or March, Turban is better because you need extra Haste. Also, if you're with tanks who aren't a risk of taking your hate away from you or DDs that aren't particularly aggressive, Turban is better because it gives you more shadows over time, and thus is safer.

    As is often said, "Shit is situational."

  16. #16

    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minions
    Quote Originally Posted by Naramaska
    They also happen to be the ones that wear Fortitude Torque while wearing Aegis.
    If I had one i'd wear it, on cerberus and faf for sure. I dont have a problem building tp, on cerb you can probably throw down 3-4 300% spirits over the course of a fight. Aegis needs roughly 300 skill.... w/ boxers, merits, and af1+1 feet you dont need any more shield gear to reach that. Can take away the af1+1 feet add homam feet and a shield torque as well. Not everything about holding hate is based on enmity and haste. If you wear homam hands/legs and a fort torque, you wont have a problem hitting faf or cerb.
    Gogo full Koenig!

    No, really. I don't think he wears any +shield skill aside from a Boxer's mantle. He uses Koenig feet, as well. And he doens't use that TP for 300% Spirits Within...it usually just sits around and rots.

  17. #17
    E. Body
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    I would love to someday have a Koenig body, but mostly just for the flaunt of it. Honestly, I wouldn't use it for much. Anyone who tried to claim Koenig body is THE tanking body for PLDs don't know dick. Nowadays, with so many other gear options, different ways of tanking and different subjob choices, it's not the end-all-be-all of PLDs anymore.

    On a side note, I got into a discussion regarding this with another player on my server, where he was dead set on the fact that Koenig Body is the best body there is, and people should stop using /nin sub for PLDs. No matter what I said I couldn't sway his opinion. The next week he got banhammered, though I'm not quite sure for what. Karma? *nods* I think so.

  18. #18
    Chram
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minions
    Quote Originally Posted by Amele
    small nitpick: loq. is fast cast, not haste. and anyone with readily available loq's has access to homam too (well. ok, you could just buy the ancient coins without ever participating in limbus but that seems.. unnecessary considering how useful homam is for paladin in general.)
    May be mistaken but I think fastcast effects the recast time of spells as well.. dont remember when I read it, was a long time ago.

    1 thread down: Loquac. and Rostrum are 2% off cast timer, 1% off recast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talis
    As mentioned above fast cast = decrease in recast time, which for a pld is the primary concern when considering haste (not attacking faster, at least not for HNM).

    The point was all of these items are easily purchased (including coins for loq. if need be), and don't require luck of the drops to obtain. Of course Homam is the goal, but its worth pointing out options avaliable until homam drops / you come up on priority.
    yeah, quite aware that fast cast = recast effect (I'm involved in the other thread too, actually) which is why I mentioned it was a small nitpick: loq. is not haste; and while recast might be all that pld cares about, it still means that loq is fast cast which includes other things relevant to pld. (and irrelevant to jobs looking for haste)

  19. #19
    Smells like Onions
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    From my experience as pld (which im still experiencing) I have noticed u just have to find the balance. Like minions said about +30 enmity then u can do w/e u want for the other gear. I have roughly +30 enmity w/ 27 sec :Ni and flash with march and haste, 1400ish hp and roughly 550-600 defense(using tav taco). I dont have gear switch for stuff like :ni and :ichi casting and what not but other then that hate is not a problem at all. I dont have v.surcoat to test that out so im not going to comment on which is better m.body or v.coat cause i dont comment until i test it or have used it, but i have m.body and im just fine w/ that because the less damage u take the less hate u lose. Hell i watch aegis plds die faster then i do on my server(and im tarutaru). Oh and i dont use turban for some reason its (lol) to me using it on pld i'd prefer the enmity over that.

  20. #20
    Title: "HUBBLE GOTCHU!" (without the quotes, of course [and without "(without the quotes, of course)", of course], etc)
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    Re: PLD Gear questions

    Situational. Between Turban and Aegisjalmr, both are viable pieces. Just depends on your setup/style/mob/songs/etc.

    When there's PLDs cotanking, we typically ask for double march, because we can't burn through all our MP if we tried. Between refresh, autorefresh, Devotion, and Chivalry, we're fine without the ballad, especially on Cerb/Khimerha, where we have sanction refresh. With double march and haste, we're already at 35% haste before we put on a single piece of gear. Swift belt, and macroing in Loq for casting brings us to 40% alone, and on top of that, we have +3%~+10%, depending on which PLD is in and how much homam he owns (note that homam legs will take 4% off of your recast, not 3). With that setup, it's not usually necissary to put in more haste unless we're solo tanking, and hence, we use Aegisjalmr.

    With a NIN/DRK in the party, we usually go Ballad2/March instead of double march, because they tend to have mp problems. Also, I typically have to hold back a little on enmity when I'm with NIN/DRK tanks. Because of these two reasons, I'll usually wear Turban. I figure if I'm holding back, taking off a piece of enmity gear for haste, and being able to cure a little bit more is better than keeping on the enmity piece (where I could have a decent haste option instead) and being able to cure a little more is more beneficial.

    As for M.body, I don't really notice a difference between full Koenig PLDs and full AF PLDs in terms of damage taken. For /war, I guess either Mbody or Surcoat would be equally viable, but I personally would prefer surcoat. For /nin, if an item doesn't have enmity or haste on it, you're going to have a hard time justifying it unless it has something special on it (like damage% -> mp, -10% damage, -25% magic damage enhances shield back and higher proc rate, for examples ). I'd say for /nin tanking, Valor > AF+1 > Mbody, unless you're really hurting for HP. As an elvaan, I'm fine with my current HP. Situation may be different for mithra and Taru.

    As for macroing in Mbody for when shadows are down: The fact that full koenig PLDs tend to get as hard as I do, coupled with the fact that I like to keep the blinking in and off screen to a minimum, I wouldn't bother.

    The only situation where I'd wear Mbody would be for when I'm really hurting for HP, such as Flares/Citadel Busters. For CB, I'm not sure how much it would actually help. I believe there's a huge conspiracy that SE has against Elvaans that causes CB to always hit for 200 more than your max HP regardless of how much HP or -Magic% you wear. Or maybe it's just me

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