Dynamis - Relic Upgrading

[Dakra]

Hello all, longtime lurker here.

Looking for some advice regarding upgrading relics in an HNM/Dynamis LS, more specifically the rules involving such. The shell I was previously in used a point system to determine who could lot currency (if so desired) each run, to a max of four currency lotters per city. The currency could only be used for upgrading a relic, never sold, and was collected by the LS leaders at the end of every run to ensure such. Unfortunately, this led to tons of people having stage 2 and 3 relics, but never any 4's or final upgrades because the competition was so stiff. Average amount of currency received in a run (per player, assuming there was the maximum of four people lotting) was about 50 each, which makes for a loooooong upgrading process.

I and several friends have decided to start our own HNM&Dyna shell, and are trying to decide on the best way to get our LS some relics. What methods do your shells use, and what do you think are the advantages/disadvantages?

I've heard that some shells choose which relics to sponsor, and this seems like the most logical method to me -- this will pool all currency into one source (rather than dividing it up between too many people, as above) and will result in producing a relic much faster. Furthermore, the LS can isolate which relics are most useful towards benefitting the LS as a whole, especially since this isn't a Dynamis-only LS, and choose to sponsor those. However, I don't see this going over too well with everyone; some people will be upset if they want to upgrade a relic that is deemed 'not useful to to shell' such as Mjollnir, Gungnir, etc etc. This is the method we are leaning towards simply because it combines efficiency with the greater good of the LS, but I would like to hear other suggestions from seasoned endgame players.

[Bagel]

Solution: If someone wants to upgrade a Mjollnir or Claustrum DON'T FUCKING PEARL THEM DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON

[aurik]

If your upgrader does not purchase currency it will be a long upgrade regardless. I suggest you make a requirement like matching-funds, that he has to come up with some percentage of the coins for each stage on his own.

And don't fucking upgrade a claustrum.

[Tajin]

And don't fucking upgrade a claustrum. EVER

in case it wasn't clear enough. 8)

[Yutuyu]

Even the vast majority of people who give relic an honest try never succeed. Nevermind all of the idiotic people who don't even bother to do the research or the math on how difficult it is to upgrade relic.

In 15 months of having a shell that allows sponsorship, we've gone through a total of 5 sponsors now, only 1 remains. We've kept to a 2 sponsor limit, anymore than that and no one is getting their weapon. I'd say we get on an average of 200 pieces in a city run. Considering you need 18,000, that's still 90 city runs. And I hope your LS is doming more than cities, Northlands are barely (if at all) worth it to sponsor.

It takes such a ridiculous amount of time and if you have more than 1 person doing it, then you have people arguing over the good slots and everyone's progress slows. Then there's people selling currency (which is hard to prevent) and screwing the LS. And the fact that the majority of people will fail.

Personally I suggest just don't let people sponsor. It's really not worth the headache unless it's 1 person (the leader hopefully, since they already have such vested interests in the linkshell's success) doing it.

EDIT: 200 a city run is probably actually not the average for city runs come to think of it. Probably closer to 250 or 300. Either way, sponsorship takes a long time.

[Minions]

Even the vast majority of people who give relic an honest try never succeed. Nevermind all of the idiotic people who don't even bother to do the research or the math on how difficult it is to upgrade relic.

In 15 months of having a shell that allows sponsorship, we've gone through a total of 5 sponsors now, only 1 remains. We've kept to a 2 sponsor limit, anymore than that and no one is getting their weapon. I'd say we get on an average of 200 pieces in a city run. Considering you need 18,000, that's still 90 city runs. And I hope your LS is doming more than cities, Northlands are barely (if at all) worth it to sponsor.

It takes such a ridiculous amount of time and if you have more than 1 person doing it, then you have people arguing over the good slots and everyone's progress slows. Then there's people selling currency (which is hard to prevent) and screwing the LS. And the fact that the majority of people will fail.

Personally I suggest just don't let people sponsor. It's really not worth the headache unless it's 1 person (the leader hopefully, since they already have such vested interests in the linkshell's success) doing it.

EDIT: 200 a city run is probably actually not the average for city runs come to think of it. Probably closer to 250 or 300. Either way, sponsorship takes a long time.

If they fail to upgrade their relics, they really didn't try. They may have tried to begin with, but if a drg can farm clusters and upgrade a lance, no one has a reason to fail. (I farmed a lot of codex's prolly over 150). I seriously hope no one that is in a LS that splits currency between a lot of people really expects to ONLY upgrade by the currency from the shell. They need to get off their ass, farm gil 2-4hrs a day and shout for currency like everyone else.

[aurik]

Farming fire clusters is secret code for buys gil.

Just like "I garden" is.

[Yutuyu]

One sponsor got screwed by the changing economy. Another had to get a job in addition to going to school so they had less time to play. One got married so they couldn't play as much. etc. etc. etc.

Sponsorship is a long term project, it's very easy to have RL interfere.

[Shuvo]

Farming fire clusters is secret code for buys gil.

Just like "I garden" is.

To be fair, he only said he farms fire clusters just to stir shit up, although it is true he almost capped merits soloing fire elementals on his 75BLM. He makes most of his gil through buy low/sell high, which is really good. I have one friend who went from 500k->60mil in 6months just by keeping his char permanently stationed in rolanberry fields, checking on it 3x a day.

I don't know why I'm defending Axile when I know he doens't care. :s

[aurik]

Yet another code for "I buy gil" is "I'm a trader".

[Shuvo]

Yet another code for "I buy gil" is "I'm a trader".

I'm a trader, too. I don't buy gil.

[Ambir]

Determine who is actually serious about upgrading weapons by actually making them obtain a certain number of coins themselves before you start giving them away. Should weed out the ones that have no idea what it takes.

Oh, and put them to work as well. If you're getting them the best part of an upgrade, get them to organise parties, take points, organise bids for AF2 etc. Giving people free rides to Relics never ends well...

[aurik]

Yet another code for "I buy gil" is "I'm a trader".

I'm a trader, too. I don't buy gil.

Your FFXIAH history says you're a crafter, not a trader.

[Shuvo]

Your FFXIAH history says you're a crafter, not a trader.

I do both, as does Axile....assuming you're Aurikan from Alla he had a 100 craft before you got CC to 99 (No i'm not stalking you, I used most of your guides when levelling myself!). Anyway, most of the > 300k items sold on my history are items I bought specifically for reselling, but I usually prefer to mule/bazaar. I actually prefer trading over crafting to tbh. I'd like to prove it by listing out what items items I buy and resell for etc, but that would be very silly to do on a public forum.

I'm gonna stop argueing now, no point defending a guy who doesn't care what people think of him. D:

[Darus Grey]

If a person can afford to spend 5k+USD on gil for a relic, more power to them I say...they already won RL apparently.

[dendryte]

If a person can afford to spend 5k+USD on gil for a relic, more power to them I say...they already won RL apparently.

Or lost by spending life savings, other people's money, money that should be used for tuition or bills, disability / alimony / etc. money, etc. Would make for some awesome drama though, I guess.

[Coren]

Have your dynamis pay for the final stage only. Once they get lvl 3, get them the attestation. Once they are lvl 4, farm a fragment and give them a 10k piece. Split the returned 30 100's. Also, I wouldn't recommend anybody even start upgrading a relic until they hold a majority of the last 2 upgrades. So many people burn 15-20 100's on the first 2 stages, just to realize they're screwed when they see they need 160 more 100's.

[Koga]

Have your dynamis pay for the final stage only. Once they get lvl 3, get them the attestation. Once they are lvl 4, farm a fragment and give them a 10k piece. Split the returned 30 100's. Also, I wouldn't recommend anybody even start upgrading a relic until they hold a majority of the last 2 upgrades. So many people burn 15-20 100's on the first 2 stages, just to realize they're screwed when they see they need 160 more 100's.

Best idea I've heard of.
If they are serious about upgrading let them get to Lv4 Relic on their on then help them getting to stage5.

[Demosthenes11]

This is how my ls does it:

You must be on stage 3 or higher to be able to bid currency to prove you have some sort of monetary backing. Giving someone coins when they can't afford even 1k of their own is retarded, but not as retarded as allowing this sort of person to finish an upgrade. Then, based on a dkp system, you may bid packs of 200 coins (think cost of pack is like 200 dkp as well).

Easy and fair

[Dakra]

Thanks for all of your suggestions.

Solution: If someone wants to upgrade a Mjollnir or Claustrum DON'T FUCKING PEARL THEM DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON

I mentioned this only because there were such people (read: retarded people) in the Dynamis LS I used to be a part of. We had a SMN upgrading staff for christ's sake. Don't worry, I've no intention of inviting people into the LS whose idea of an awesome relic is Mjollnir.

I'd also have to restrain myself from dismembering them as soon as they mentioned such a thing.

You must be on stage 3 or higher to be able to bid currency to prove you have some sort of monetary backing. Giving someone coins when they can't afford even 1k of their own is retarded, but not as retarded as allowing this sort of person to finish an upgrade. Then, based on a dkp system, you may bid packs of 200 coins (think cost of pack is like 200 dkp as well).

Though we've no intention of using the dkp system, this method makes sense to me. I hestate to force a requirement like Stage 4 in order to begin receiving currency from the LS, just because the economy has gone to hell and there aren't too many Dynamis LS on my server that actually sell the currency they get from runs (Garuda seems to favor the 'force all members to split the cost of the hourglass, and never sell any currency' method). In a LS where money drops go to the bank, and not split among the players (don't know a shell that does this anyways), getting the 80+ million gil necessary to upgrade to Stage 4 seems a tad steep to me. Albeit it is for a relic, yes, and relics require dedication. However, given that members in the LS will often be at events rather than farming/crafting, I do think it'd cator too much to those who are already rich on their own, and not the most dedicated to the LS. By obtaining currency from the LS, it ensures to receive that currency, the member upgrading their relic must attend those runs.

Having one person sponsor runs (I agree that allowing multiple people to sponsor runs will lead to drama) seems akin to the LS leaders deciding which relics they want upgraded first, since chances are there will be multiple people coming forward to try to fill in the one sponsoring slot. In comparison to the method mentioned above, it seems to spread out one's gil over a longer period of time (1 mil per run, vs. 80 mil of currency upfront to even begin receiving currency from LS), which can be both good and bad depending on the person. I'd still probably have the LS bank hold onto the currency they received from sponsoring runs, just to make sure noone jumps ship halfway through and takes 50-odd mil worth of dynamis currency that the LS has earned with them.