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  1. #1
    Melee Summoner
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    Hundred Fists and then some...

    With all the cards on the table i would like to ask 2 questions...

    Can a Ninja actually attain attack speed of Hundred Fists or greater?

    Can a Monk attain Attack speed of hundred fist or greater w/o the use of 2 hr?

    I realize that this question has prolly been asked to death then beaten w/ an ugly stick, set on fire and pissed on.. but for the life of me i can't find anywhere to answer those 2 questions.

    If someone could answer that, that be just swell ^,^

  2. #2
    Old Merits
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    facepalm

  3. #3

    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Only by equipping, Speed Gloves, can this be obtained...

  4. #4
    Like a boss yo
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    As far as I know (Don't take my word as truth since I don't melee much but may try a jab at it) 1). For NIN I think with all the Haste gear MAYBE... but not sure
    2). for MNK to get HF speed w/o 2hr probably not, but do not know how much haste gear MNK can equip.

    I don't think they can either way due to haste cap, but Im jsut taking a shot in the dark, trying to be helpful. If I was cool If not, sorry

  5. #5
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Well for what i know a MNK can equip enough gear to cap his haste to 25% which as far as i know that is the haste cap as far is gear is concerned and a NIN can only go as far as 19% w/o the help of enhance dual wield... NIN AF1 Body gives i think about 5% delay reduction as with teh suppa.

    thats as far as gear is concerned...
    As for buffs i know haste is 15% but i am unsure what double march is capable of... and i am unsure what the actual haste buff cap is.

    Also to better rephrase the question... I am looking for a setup where i can attack as fast as possible wether it be MNK or NIN and not have to use a 2 hr.
    It isn't something i would necessarily use in endgame but i want to know if it is even possible..

  6. #6
    Puppetmaster
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    DRK/SAM attacks the fastest, 24% haste from gear (including haste belt), 43.3% haste from spells, 10% haste from Hasso, and 15% haste from Desperate Blows.

    or 25% haste from gear with Relic Scythe

    93.3% haste = about 15x normal attack speed with 2 handed weapon.

  7. #7
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...


  8. #8

    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    In the case of MNK:

    Black Belt, Byakko, Walahra, Fuma. 25% Haste
    Haste spell, Marchx2. 35% Haste

    MNK falls short of the attack speed haste cap by 10%. The Usukane set bonus may close the gap more, but until we get those frogs boiled, we will never know the exact effect of the bonus.


    In the case of NIN, Dual Wield can push delay even lower:

    Speed Belt, Walahra, Fuma, Byakko, Wyvern Earring (assume NIN/DRG). 24% Haste
    Dual Wield IV trait. 30% delay reduction
    Ninja Chainmail, Suppanomimi. 10% delay reduction
    Haste, Marchx2. 35% Haste

    59% haste and 2 more Dual Wield effects. Again, the haste could be made greater depending on Usukane set bonus. I don't feel like crunching the numbers, but 40% delay reduction and 59% haste should be able to simulate the effect of Hundred Fists. Maybe a barehand MNK could compete then.

  9. #9
    Relic Weapons
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    Kujata

    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Quote Originally Posted by Syfinosis
    Well for what i know a MNK can equip enough gear to cap his haste to 25% which as far as i know that is the haste cap as far is gear is concerned and a NIN can only go as far as 19% w/o the help of enhance dual wield... NIN AF1 Body gives i think about 5% delay reduction as with teh suppa.

    I'm pretty sure my NIN equips 20% haste without anything special (no speed belt or dusk gloves +1). If you use a shinobi earring / ring, you can get to 25% haste from gear with your eyes closed. If you want to stipulate non-latent gear, 23% haste is as far as NIN can go I believe.

    A nin with 25% haste from active Shinobi Earring + Turban, wearing full Dual-Wield enhancement (Suppa, Ninja Chainmail, Koga Hakama) along with Haste and Double SV Marches would be a pretty impressive sight.

    Haste = 25% (gear) + 15% (spell) + 40% (marches) = 80% (cap is 70%?)
    Dual Wield = 0.30 (DW IV) + 0.15 (gear) = 0.45

    assuming the haste cap is 70% and that DW doesn't contribute to a swing-speed cap :
    delay = D * (1-0.70) * (1-0.45) = D * 0.30 * 0.55 = D * 0.165

    Using Beestinger / Hornetneedle, the delay pre-haste and DW is 150+150=300

    After everything, delay would be :
    300 * 0.165 =~ 50

    I'm guessing that's well below the delay Hundred Fists grants. Anyone see any caps I'm not accounting for? Or if I'm wrong with the 70% haste cap?

  10. #10
    Hydra
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    You can, just get a Kraken Club.

    Outside of that, best you could do would be 17% from gear (though, guess you could reach cap if you wanted to be in the red all the time with Shinobi Earring), 15% from spell, 10% from Haste Belt. 20% from both Bard songs, Suppa for 5% delay reduction, NIN AF body for 5% delay reduction. and the NIN's natural 30% delay reduction. Also, for this purpose, Brutal Earring and Warrior sub add 15% double attack as well.

    For weapons, using Unji/Perdu, you'd have a starting delay of 391, -40% would give you a 235 delay. 62% haste would knock that down to 89.3. This would make each attack round happen approx. every 1.5 seconds, with 2.30 (normal 2 + 15% chance of double attack on each hit) attacks each round, you would get a hit every ~.65 seconds on average. Yeah, it would probably almost appear that you were on Hundred Fists.

    Now, keep in mind, I've never tried doing equation stuff for this game, and am really not 100% sure of how it works, but thats about as fast as you're going to get your attack rounds to. The gear needed would be Dusk Gloves +1, Fuma Sune-Ate, Walahra Turban, Byakko's Haidate, and Haste Belt for Haste gear.

    For MNK, its a bit easier to hit the 25% cap, using just Black Belt, Walahra Turban, Byakko's Haidate, and Fuma
    Sune-Ate. With all 3 haste spells, you would have a total of 60% haste. Your base delay at level 75 on MNK is 300. With Faith Baghnakhs, your total delay before haste would be 413. With Haste, you're at a delay of 165.2. Average amount of attacks per round /war would be 2 + 1 (Faith Baghnakhs) + .1 (Double Attack, which cannot proc on a round that Faith Baghnakhs did from what I understand) + .05 (Brutal Earring) +.1 (kick attacks) for a total of 3.25 attacks per round average. This equates to an attack every ~.85 seconds, which would definitely be pretty damned close to attacking non-stop. Of course, Hundred Fists would lower this still.

    This is definitely not to say that any situation I pointed out was ideal for almost any situations except perhaps giving the mobs TP for your Blue Mage friend to learn his spells, but I believe those are the quickest attacks you can get on MNK and NIN.

    Also...
    Maybe a barehand MNK could compete then.
    I believe Faith Baghnakhs slightly outdo barehanded (or Vishnu's Cesti) by a slight margin. It doesn't add 50% to the delay (its 37 delay under) and adds slightly under 50% attacks assuming you're subbing Warrior. I calculated both and Faith won out by having each single attack come .03 seconds faster, but also with having an additional +2 DMG.

    That was a fun break. Back to BLM levelling.

  11. #11

    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    A waste of a gear spot, but if you want to be anal about haste gear there's this too...



    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Blitz_Ring

  12. #12
    Like a boss yo
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Thats a pretty cool ring! youknow.... if a mnk or a nin could use It!

  13. #13

    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Quote Originally Posted by Almalexia
    In the case of NIN, Dual Wield can push delay even lower:

    Speed Belt, Walahra, Fuma, Byakko, Wyvern Earring (assume NIN/DRG). 24% Haste
    Dual Wield IV trait. 30% delay reduction
    Ninja Chainmail, Suppanomimi. 10% delay reduction
    Haste, Marchx2. 35% Haste

    59% haste and 2 more Dual Wield effects. Again, the haste could be made greater depending on Usukane set bonus. I don't feel like crunching the numbers, but 40% delay reduction and 59% haste should be able to simulate the effect of Hundred Fists. Maybe a barehand MNK could compete then.
    http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/2778 + turban would put you at 25%, then you could do relic legs for more dual wield +.

  14. #14
    Salvage Bans
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahonri
    A waste of a gear spot, but if you want to be anal about haste gear there's this too...



    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Blitz_Ring
    Whoa... totally wrong about that! Blitz ring is unbelievable... for DRK zerging anyway.

    For normal use, I suppose with enough stacked haste (w/ march and haste) it might be worth it for a WAR... people better at the math could tell you for sure.

    Out of curiousity, what is the base delay of a monk with hundred fists anyway

  15. #15
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    I thought it was tested that Haste Belt could go above cap.

    Also - Hasso as DRK/SAM is only 5% haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulun
    Out of curiousity, what is the base delay of a monk with hundred fists anyway
    I would estimate that it's around 50 or 60, as 60 delay is an attack every second and if you went much lower than that, with the animation of punching, you'd glitch out. Hundred Fists doesn't glitch you in the same way that DRK/SAM can, it just makes you attack non-stop. I could be wrong, though.

  16. #16
    Relic Horn
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Haste belt counts towards magical haste cap.


    Nin can get so fast that he cancels out himself on all his second hits pretty much.

  17. #17
    Daddy Warbucks
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Quote Originally Posted by Therin
    I thought it was tested that Haste Belt could go above cap.

    Also - Hasso as DRK/SAM is only 5% haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulun
    Out of curiousity, what is the base delay of a monk with hundred fists anyway
    I would estimate that it's around 50 or 60, as 60 delay is an attack every second and if you went much lower than that, with the animation of punching, you'd glitch out. Hundred Fists doesn't glitch you in the same way that DRK/SAM can, it just makes you attack non-stop. I could be wrong, though.
    I thought it was proven that the attack speed / accuracy bonus from hasso were static, while only the STR bonus varied?

  18. #18
    Sandworm Swallows
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Quote Originally Posted by Therin
    I thought it was tested that Haste Belt could go above cap.

    Also - Hasso as DRK/SAM is only 5% haste.
    10%, subbed or not.

  19. #19
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    [quote="Syfinosis"]Stuff[quote]

    Why are you main handing Ridill?

  20. #20
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: Hundred Fists and then some...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyramion
    Haste belt counts towards magical haste cap.


    Nin can get so fast that he cancels out himself on all his second hits pretty much.
    What's needed for this? I've seen some pretty pimped out NINs in the LS, but have never seen anything like this.

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