Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[aurik]

sigh

And you still havnt. Smns have asked for a tweak. You have yet to provide a REAL reason why they should never get such a thing.

Never is a long time. Smn certainly aren't overdue for updated. Seeing as smn does ok for itself and there are plenty of jobs that get way less toys that need some loving, SE should focus on other jobs first.

[Hapernack]

sigh

And you still havnt. Smns have asked for a tweak. You have yet to provide a REAL reason why they should never get such a thing.

Never is a long time. Smn certainly aren't overdue for updated. Seeing as smn does ok for itself and there are plenty of jobs that get way less toys that need some loving, SE should focus on other jobs first.

In after "BST".

[Beckwin]

sigh

And you still havnt. Smns have asked for a tweak. You have yet to provide a REAL reason why they should never get such a thing.

"And read my previous post where I give a quick run-down of my position again, and read some older ones where I explain SMNs strengths in an HNM sense, how they solo better than many jobs, and how they can get by as a healer when needed for fodder-burn. I maintain that the job isn't completely kaput in any sense and only some minor tweaking would be appropriate. There are much more pertinent things SE could be, and currently are, focusing on (minus the choco racing bullshit)."

There it is again for you, you dense piece of shit lame-duck motherfucker.

And look, even aurik agrees despite disagreement with me on another subject earlier. But oh wait, it's just me, Naygor, and Ryko that don't think SMN is broken in need of immediate drastic fixing :/

[Sera]

For the record, you can't be "more invincible."
You're either invincible, or you're not. Like being pregnant. You can't be "more" pregnant or "less" pregnant. You either are, or you are not.
Therefore, it is impossible for someone to become "more" invincible. It isn't one of those characteristics you can quantify to a degree.

[BRP]

sigh

And you still havnt. Smns have asked for a tweak. You have yet to provide a REAL reason why they should never get such a thing.

Never is a long time. Smn certainly aren't overdue for updated. Seeing as smn does ok for itself and there are plenty of jobs that get way less toys that need some loving, SE should focus on other jobs first.

To this I say: SE can make thirty job changes each version update if it's mostly changing WS formulas, durations, and so on(stuff they've shown ease on changing). They just don't seem to want to. The whole "other jobs should get boosted first" doesn't really work and anyone who wants SMN updated isn't saying they should be the only ones to be updated or the first to be updated, just that they should be updated.


Also: was it this thread I saw someone mention WAR being weak in 2004? I think that had a lot more to do with ignorance than actual job problems. I think we've hit the point where we know more about the game than we don't know. Stuff like Evasion, Magic Accuracy, and so on are so very hard to test, but I don't think they could repeat the same effect finding out /NIN is best, accuracy and haste formulas, and other major realizations did.

[Ryko]

So you're just as full of shit now coming up against me as you were when you were trying to bitch out naygor? Just making sure, way to take accountability for your own words child.

Still doing nothing but sitting there thinking you're arguing or something when all you're doing is throwing personal attacks everywhere hoping you might make a point eventually. I'm sorry let me rephrase that so you understand.

FUCK FUCK FUCKITTY FUCK FUCKER FUCK STFU GTFO BITCHY SHIT FUCKERUNIKA FUCK.

That's exactly the point you made. "Running off" and "accepting an offer for a linkshell" are 2 different things. Once again, connotation. You're not a robot and your flamefest was not meant to be taken at objective face value. One implies that he had no options and went to the first place that would take him, when the fact of the matter is he went to a place where he wasn't taking the easy way out. Stuff the "I didn't say that" line and own up to your own words. If you're gonna be forward enough to make wild baseless accusations you might as well man up when the person who would have a say in the matter is telling you you're wrong.

Furthermore (and I know one of you is going to try to cross this with aurik's speculative argument which has nothing to do with this aside from the term mediocre being used) just because you enjoy flaming someone does not mean you have the slightest idea of whether or not they're a mediocre player. There are plenty of people who downright dislike me and you'd all be incredibly wrong to claim I was average, let alone below average. You don't know anything of naygor's playstyle on remora nor fairy, stop tagging along.

While there was plenty of cursing and ad-hominem in the middle of that post, a majority of it was nothing of the sort. I'm sorry you only read what you want to, but your apparent retardation does not mean a valid argument was not made. You being a mouthbreathing ajaxchugging plugforker is an aside, but it wasn't my main point.

[FinalJustice]

And I've never even disputed that DRG PUP etc are in need of more changes.

Which is why I said PAGES ago, it's simply MORE productive to list jobs, and the changes we would like, then to sit here telling ppl to not talk about what the jobs need because someone else job is in more dire need. We all know what is in more dire need. But this topic was not "What do DRG need". It was about job adjustments, and to me, that means EVERY job, that people would like adjusted. Of course other jobs are worse off, but job fix hierarchy was never a part of mine, or the smns arguments. As someone (who i don't like) said, talking or addressing smn issues do not stop us from talking or addressing other jobs issues.

Edit: Why should we be allowed to only discuss or address ONE job at a time. SE can adjust as many jobs as they see fit at once. The major job additions in TOAU prove this.

PUP
SMN
DRG
RNG
BST

I want "adjustments" for all 5.

[evilpaul]

I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best,

The funny thing is, the stuff the majority have been asking for ARE minor tweaks to the job... lol

Just shut the fuck up already. Every time someone says something you latch onto it then when someone contends it you're like "no one ever said that!", you haven't had a point of your own aside from commenting on what people do or don't say (and half the time it's made up) then when you made a point of your own it took like 4 fucking pages for you to finally answer the fucking question and can't even read the name of the person asking it. You contradict yourself at one point then when beckwin didn't even troll and asked you questions based off the shit you said you got twisted up again. Get the fuck off it, you seem to think that the rare freebie where someone would agree with you (in bashing naygor) means that any of the shit you've said has had any validity the whole time. It doesn't, go back to posting cat pictures since it was the equivalent of being a mute.

Actually, you, Beckwin, and Naygor were basically the only people who think SMN is fine as is.

That had absofuckinglutely nothing to do with anything in my last post as it addressed nothing anyone said on SMN being incomplete or passable either way, good fucking job dink.

When you make a character on Fairy do you get a Adventure Coupon and a Rusty Bucket full of fucking retarded?

[Ryko]

I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best,

The funny thing is, the stuff the majority have been asking for ARE minor tweaks to the job... lol

Just shut the fuck up already. Every time someone says something you latch onto it then when someone contends it you're like "no one ever said that!", you haven't had a point of your own aside from commenting on what people do or don't say (and half the time it's made up) then when you made a point of your own it took like 4 fucking pages for you to finally answer the fucking question and can't even read the name of the person asking it. You contradict yourself at one point then when beckwin didn't even troll and asked you questions based off the shit you said you got twisted up again. Get the fuck off it, you seem to think that the rare freebie where someone would agree with you (in bashing naygor) means that any of the shit you've said has had any validity the whole time. It doesn't, go back to posting cat pictures since it was the equivalent of being a mute.

Actually, you, Beckwin, and Naygor were basically the only people who think SMN is fine as is.

That had absofuckinglutely nothing to do with anything in my last post as it addressed nothing anyone said on SMN being incomplete or passable either way, good fucking job dink.

When you make a character on Fairy do you get a Adventure Coupon and a Rusty Bucket full of fucking retarded?

That would be cute if, y'know, what I said wasn't true. Also neither beckwin nor naygor made characters on fairy, so I don't think they would know.

[Naygor]

And I've never even disputed that DRG PUP etc are in need of more changes.

Which is why I said PAGES ago, it's simply MORE productive to list jobs, and the changes we would like, then to sit here telling ppl to not talk about what the jobs need because someone else job is in more dire need. We all know what is in more dire need. But this topic was not "What do DRG need". It was about job adjustments, and to me, that means EVERY job, that people would like adjusted. Of course other jobs are worse off, but job fix hierarchy was never a part of mine, or the smns arguments. As someone (who i don't like) said, talking or addressing smn issues do not stop us from talking or addressing other jobs issues.

Edit: Why should we be allowed to only discuss or address ONE job at a time. SE can adjust as many jobs as they see fit at once. The major job additions in TOAU prove this.

PUP
SMN
DRG
RNG
BST

I want "adjustments" for all 5.

The issue was never what jobs need to be adjusted more. The issue was "does smn need to be adjusted". It was a nice little tangent though. I enjoyed it.

[Hapernack]

That's exactly the point you made. "Running off" and "accepting an offer for a linkshell" are 2 different things. Once again, connotation. You're not a robot and your flamefest was not meant to be taken at objective face value. One implies that he had no options and went to the first place that would take him, when the fact of the matter is he went to a place where he wasn't taking the easy way out. Stuff the "I didn't say that" line and own up to your own words. If you're gonna be forward enough to make wild baseless accusations you might as well man up when the person who would have a say in the matter is telling you you're wrong.

My arguement to you wasn't that he didn't accept an offer for an LS. My arguement was that on Siren he was a nobody who was gauged as skill-less at best. I would recommend you take your own words there and:

... you might as well man up when the person who would have a say in the matter is telling you you're wrong.

My real point being I knew him before he went to Fairy. Has he changed? I dunno. But I know him from years ago when he was on my server and our memories of his behavior appear to still be consistent with his behavior now.

[Ryko]

My arguement to you wasn't that he didn't accept an offer for an LS.

Hi, Naygor's current LS leader. Hi, not exactly naygor's biggest fan. Hi, offered Naygor an established LS despite that. Yes, he did. I'd know.

My real poing being I knew him before he went to Fairy. Has he changed? I dunno. But I know him from years ago when he was on my server and our memories of his behavior appear to still be consistent with his behavior now.

Furthermore (and I know one of you is going to try to cross this with aurik's speculative argument which has nothing to do with this aside from the term mediocre being used) just because you enjoy flaming someone does not mean you have the slightest idea of whether or not they're a mediocre player. There are plenty of people who downright dislike me and you'd all be incredibly wrong to claim I was average, let alone below average. You don't know anything of naygor's playstyle on remora nor fairy, stop tagging along.

You not liking someone does not mean they suck, and Naygor left siren a long long long ass time ago.

[Naygor]

That's exactly the point you made. "Running off" and "accepting an offer for a linkshell" are 2 different things. Once again, connotation. You're not a robot and your flamefest was not meant to be taken at objective face value. One implies that he had no options and went to the first place that would take him, when the fact of the matter is he went to a place where he wasn't taking the easy way out. Stuff the "I didn't say that" line and own up to your own words. If you're gonna be forward enough to make wild baseless accusations you might as well man up when the person who would have a say in the matter is telling you you're wrong.

My arguement to you wasn't that he didn't accept an offer for an LS. My arguement was that on Siren he was a nobody who was gauged as skill-less at best. I would recommend you take your own words there and:

[quote:aadbe]... you might as well man up when the person who would have a say in the matter is telling you you're wrong.

My real poing being I knew him before he went to Fairy. Has he changed? I dunno. But I know him from years ago when he was on my server and our memories of his behavior appear to still be consistent with his behavior now.[/quote:aadbe]

Having never partied with me and never even seen me in action hapernack is able to make some pretty amazing claims. On Siren I wasn't even 75 yet and I sure as hell didn't have any high level friends to leech off of (lolTheCrucible). Your memory is retarded. I flat out defended you when you were going on about your not wanting to sub /rdm and I got fucking desacked for saying whether /whm is better than /rdm is debatable (even though it really isn't in most situations).

[Ryko]

Wow, another baseless bandwagon jumper, what a fucking surprise.

[Not Kuno]

I can't take it anymore. Ryko and Naygor have ruined this thread beyond any point of decent conversation. When sendoh reopened the thread he started it off with some discussion. Only one part got quoted and replied to and the rest got ignored and the shit fest started again. This thread is so retarded we are all dumber for reading it and don't do this to any other threads.

[Rocl]

In the issue of fairness, it would be wrong to blame those two people alone for ruining the thread. Both sides had their completly ridicolous posters. In other words, you're all to blame, gtfo and let this thread die. I don't want to see any further dicussion about the whether or not SMN should be buffed in the update.