Zhayolm: 1F, 5F, 6F Poroggo Madames Info

[Gwynplaine]

6F looks as though it has one, not two corresponding poroggo madame in the .dats.

[Tahngarthor]

6F looks as though it has one, not two corresponding poroggo madame in the .dats.

Bleh. I fail. Thanks for correcting

Still, I'm looking at the lists in the summary showing a 5F S madame being popped a number of times. None of these times it was killed/ dropped anything?

The only other thing that caught my attention was this (I have been involved in killing this stuff):

-Single gears don't link with the chariot (Mofro p42).

Would it be possible to kill the chariot without killing any gears? Every time I've been there, we make the gears pop and kill them all first.

[Seditedi]

Nope, 5FS has not been confirmed to drop anything thus far, don't believe any cells or even a chest have been dropped from it.

[futceez]

I definitely think 4F S is just for chest since there were 10 of each medication in the box and they were really good stuff (and the chest always drops?).
I think 5F S madame probably drops something like Lv35 marduk's body from all the past unconfirmed reports since it doesn't drop anything else, not even a chest.
6F madames is definitely worth trying:
1) Clear the floor in under a certain amount of time(10min?); including the 2 ramparts on the side?
2) Kill the ramparts on the sides before aggroing the chariot and killing all the gears.
3) Killing all teh ramparts and/or gears in the entire zone.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Watch 6F drop all pieces, and you either have to kill 4FS+5FS or just 5FN to spawn 6F.

(I still support my 4FS: 1 piece, 5FS: 1 piece, 5FN: 2 pieces, 6F: 2 pieces idea.)

After all, how many Qiqirn kills did it take for a piece to drop?

[Soraan]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in every other salvage zone, aren't floor 35NM pop conditions restricted and independent to that floor only? Like in order to pop the QQTHs on 6th floor, it was determined all you had to do was just kill the gears (on that floor only) in under 7 mins instead of killing all gears in the zone. All the other pops in silver seas, arrapago, thickets... are never based on what you do on previous floors. Doesn't matter what you kill on floor 1-4, on floor 5, the QQA will always pop when you open the door. Doesn't matter what you do on Floors 1-3 on Thickets, you can always pop the 4th floor Rampart by killing all 10 single gears. ETC ETC I never really believed fully that killing all the gears on all floors in arrapago would pop the 6th floor QQTHs simply because it didn't make sense when you look at all the other Salvages.

And I also personally don't even believe these "time limit" frogs that pop in Zhayolm simply because there are so many conflicting reports about them all. That said, it is rather weird that people say the Madame is up immediately after entering the 5th floor, while some say it pops after opening the door... The only conclusion people thought was maybe it was time-based, but I honestly don't think that's it. We haven't done much experimenting yet because people in our group always want to do other Salvages to get the other 35 pieces, but when we do Zhayolms (mostly for lvl15 pieces to complete), we've never been able to pop any of the upper floor madames.

It's been a while since I've done 6th floor, but do the gears there have linked-hate to the chariot? Like if you pull the Chariot, will all gears aggro? I'm confusing it with another floor, I believe. Has anyone ever tried killing the Chariot w/out killing any of the gears? Seems very odd that the Chariot spawns gears as soon as you engage it, possibly meaning that you need to kill the Chariot before the gears to pop the Madame... If linked hate, this would be hard and possibly require a suicide puller(s) to keep the gears away. If no linked hate, would just require 1 suicide puller to pull the gears to a corner and die. I dunno, ignore me if I'm confusing this floor with another; I'm sitting in a lab at college atm waiting for a class to start, very loud atm

[Seditedi]

The gear/gears do not have aggro when you aggro the chariot. WHM/SMN I just send carby on it to pop the room, I run to the alcove where no mobs are, only the chariot comes to me unless I'm too close and aggro gears in the process.

[Gwynplaine]

Right, 5F has the chariot that seems to have some kind of connection to the gears in its room not 6F.

And yeah, I agree that when all is said and done the NMs will probably be spawned in a way that is not affected by other floors. Some people seem to jump to conclusions that something happened because of what happened on another floor, or because of the day, or the weather or w/e. This hasn't been true so far in salvage, and it just seems unlikely because it would be extremely poor design.

For instance, in the case of 6F qiqirn it seemed at first like the condition was killing all archaic machines in the zone. When actually this was just an unintended consequence of their group being able to fuck shit up extremely fast, resulting in them clearing 6F in less than 7 minutes. The difference that throws a lot of this off for zhayolm is... the NM (5FS) has just been there as soon as entering the floor. So trying to isolate something one group does that others don't just hasn't added up so far.

[asnman]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in every other salvage zone, aren't floor 35NM pop conditions restricted and independent to that floor only? Like in order to pop the QQTHs on 6th floor, it was determined all you had to do was just kill the gears (on that floor only) in under 7 mins instead of killing all gears in the zone. All the other pops in silver seas, arrapago, thickets... are never based on what you do on previous floors. Doesn't matter what you kill on floor 1-4, on floor 5, the QQA will always pop when you open the door. Doesn't matter what you do on Floors 1-3 on Thickets, you can always pop the 4th floor Rampart by killing all 10 single gears. ETC ETC I never really believed fully that killing all the gears on all floors in arrapago would pop the 6th floor QQTHs simply because it didn't make sense when you look at all the other Salvages.

And I also personally don't even believe these "time limit" frogs that pop in Zhayolm simply because there are so many conflicting reports about them all. That said, it is rather weird that people say the Madame is up immediately after entering the 5th floor, while some say it pops after opening the door... The only conclusion people thought was maybe it was time-based, but I honestly don't think that's it. We haven't done much experimenting yet because people in our group always want to do other Salvages to get the other 35 pieces, but when we do Zhayolms (mostly for lvl15 pieces to complete), we've never been able to pop any of the upper floor madames.

It's been a while since I've done 6th floor, but do the gears there have linked-hate to the chariot? Like if you pull the Chariot, will all gears aggro? I'm confusing it with another floor, I believe. Has anyone ever tried killing the Chariot w/out killing any of the gears? Seems very odd that the Chariot spawns gears as soon as you engage it, possibly meaning that you need to kill the Chariot before the gears to pop the Madame... If linked hate, this would be hard and possibly require a suicide puller(s) to keep the gears away. If no linked hate, would just require 1 suicide puller to pull the gears to a corner and die. I dunno, ignore me if I'm confusing this floor with another; I'm sitting in a lab at college atm waiting for a class to start, very loud atm

I agree with you on the fact that each floor most likely has a condition met in order to pop an NM and not be based on a previous floor, thats how I was able to figure out the QQTH pop on 6th floor cause having it related to all floors would be too meticulous?(sp) of SE to do cause half the time things are simpler than it seems, I will be attemping a few more Zhao runs next week in order to unravel this mystery since no one seems to be able to figure it out, been spamming Arrapago for Machas :/ sooner that drops soon I can move onto this one and provide a solution soon~

[Soraan]

Yeah, I thought I was confusing floor 5 and 6 with the Chariot auto-linking to gears etc. Oh well.

The only thing I don't know how to explain is how the madame is sometimes popped as soon as you enter the floor while sometimes not. I think this was what lead people to come to the conclusion that it had something to do with previous floors (which is very odd being as no other Salvage area utilizes this method of popping NMs). I still believe it's something you do on the actual floor that pops it, not something on previous ones. Who knows, could be proved wrong later.

[Narse]

Don't forget about this: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnew ... 1028.shtml

- Salvage related issues:

2) Numbers of defeated notorious monsters within the Zhayolm Remnants were not counted properly.

[Seditedi]

Yea, that has been pointed out before, but we have to determine what mobs are considered NMs if the condition is indeed meeting a certain requirement of NMs killed to pop a Madame.

[Narse]

Well, there was discussion of whether or not mobs on other floors can effect popping madame on 5th/6th floors, and that statement lends credence to the possibility that it can.

[BRP]

I'm no Salvage expect and I haven't touched Zhayolm, but can anyone tell me if monsters(mainly Mamool Ja) have size differences like they would in Besieged?

[Tahngarthor]

Don't forget about this: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnew ... 1028.shtml

- Salvage related issues:

2) Numbers of defeated notorious monsters within the Zhayolm Remnants were not counted properly.

I would try tests based on only the madames dropping the lv15 items, and perhaps other special mobs like the mamools that always drop chests. I wouldnt count the other trash mobs that drop cells, or pets, in this.

[Sagacious Sundi]

I'm no Salvage expect and I haven't touched Zhayolm, but can anyone tell me if monsters(mainly Mamool Ja) have size differences like they would in Besieged?

It was mentioned somewhere that the 1F Poroggos and 2F Mamool Ja might be larger, in addition to all 8 madames + Jakko, I think. I would imagine large = NM status.

EDIT: This would mean there might be 14 possible NMs (including 5F chariot; 18 if you count madames/chariots on the side you didn't pick) you can fight before 6F. (Obviously, it's impossible to fight them all, even if you don't count the NMs on other sides; probably a requirement of X NMs before porting up.)

[Seditedi]

2F mamool ja have very high HP compared to other Mamool, may mean NM status, 1F mamool HP not that high compared to 2F.

[Gwynplaine]

The Zhayolm update note is in the OP, and it's pretty ambiguous. For instance, on 3F you can spawn either the north or the south madame. You can't spawn both. The update could have fixed this whereas before maybe it was glitched allowing you to spawn both north and south 3F madames. If it had anything to do with this we don't know because no one had reported to try it until Aurik's group had some time afterwards.

[Almalexia]

I'm no Salvage expect and I haven't touched Zhayolm, but can anyone tell me if monsters(mainly Mamool Ja) have size differences like they would in Besieged?

It was mentioned somewhere that the 1F Poroggos and 2F Mamool Ja might be larger, in addition to all 8 madames + Jakko, I think. I would imagine large = NM status.

EDIT: This would mean there might be 14 possible NMs (including 5F chariot; 18 if you count madames/chariots on the side you didn't pick) you can fight before 6F. (Obviously, it's impossible to fight them all, even if you don't count the NMs on other sides; probably a requirement of X NMs before porting up.)

Is there any way to pull specific mobs from the Zhayolm .dats into a model viewer to make a side-by-side comparison?

[Wizerd]

Yeah, I thought I was confusing floor 5 and 6 with the Chariot auto-linking to gears etc. Oh well.

The only thing I don't know how to explain is how the madame is sometimes popped as soon as you enter the floor while sometimes not. I think this was what lead people to come to the conclusion that it had something to do with previous floors (which is very odd being as no other Salvage area utilizes this method of popping NMs). I still believe it's something you do on the actual floor that pops it, not something on previous ones. Who knows, could be proved wrong later.

You have to keep in mind also that every area (even floor in some cases) have different ways of popping things, though.

Bhaflau has a specific condition to meet on each floor, each of them being different, but the way the NMs themselves pop are all the same.
Arrapago is very simple, opening doors, porting up, or killing in under 7min.
Silver Seas is very simple, clearing a set of certain mob(s) from a room.

There is no reason to doubt that Zhayolm's conditions can be based on previous floors.

Keep in mind that 3FN/3FS and 4FN/4FS, while the two sets each have separate conditons, the members within the sets are very similar in how they pop (3F being clear all mobs in the wing, and 4F being arrive before [xx] time). I've no doubt that once we figure out either 5FN or 5FS, the opposite madame will be figured out quickly.

Here is a question though: people have killed the chariot first on 6F, and the two single gears first, but has anyone killed all 3 of these first? (The fact that they don't sleep might provide a hint, since the pop is obviously not supposed to be super easy, but should still be simple like everything else in Salvage.) I don't usually like to come up with iffy ideas but when I read over Zhayolm stuff, I start grasping at straws.