Is claiming with Mijin Gakure always a bad idea?

[Scary]

This morning camping KA with 4 other people I had the weirdest/fuckedup thing happen to our party. Normally when I solo camp KA I use this macro.
/ja Provoke <stnpc>
/wait 1
/targetnpc
/ja Provoke <t>

But when i camp in team I use
/ja Provoke <stnpc>
/wait 1
/targetnpc
/ja Mijin Gakure <t>

So anyways, this morning when i had another tank, i used the 2nd setup for my macro. KA pops, we all fire our macros, and my log shows the other nin voked it, then my voke went off, and then my 2hr went off. Below my 2hr it shows the blm stun went off (at this point i already died to my 2hr) then all of a sudden KA went unclaimed and another party got it. We all stood there mad and scratching our head wondering what happened. My guess is that I pulled the most hate and died off and it went unclaim after my 2hr. However here's the thing that got us all puzzled, 3 days ago, I did the exact same thing and KA never went unclaimed, however we had about 12 people there, I guess others claimed it while I got killed.

In any case I'm not sure if this is a fluke or how it always worked, I was under the impression that Mijin Gakure was always a good claim as long as there are other people in your party/alliance. I guess i'll never use it again.........

[LinktheDeme]

Why would anyone claim with mijin gakure ever. If you miss the first voke most likely someone else will get the claim

[Zosi]

Very very very very bad idea. I have no idea why you'd think it'd be useful. It's like... "hay guyz, I just claimed KA, now I'm gonna blow up to erase my hate!" Next time after you voke, just hit zerk or Defender for more hate.

[Scary]

That's what i don't get, if erasing hate means a target would go unclaim, then why is it that when other people fight things and tank gets killed it doesn't do that. I mean other people in my party had hate through voke and stun too. If that's how the game mechanic works then you'd expect ANY monster would go unclaim if the person with most hate dies, ie; tanks. Did the exact same thing a few days ago, KA didn't go unclaim at all.

[TB]

Mobs go unclaimed for a split second after Mijin. So not a smart idea. Duh.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

That's what i don't get, if erasing hate means a target would go unclaim, then why is it that when other people fight things and tank gets killed it doesn't do that.

Actually mobs going unclaimed when a tank dies does happen. Anyone who has seen a king jacked from them will understand.

No I won't get in an argument about yellow=fair game >.>

[Seditedi]

Uh... I thought people already knew that mobs tend to unclaim if the person at the top of the hate list dies.
Wtf did you get the idea to claim with Mijin Gakure? lol.

[Scary]

Uh... I thought people already knew that mobs tend to unclaim if the person at the top of the hate list dies.
Wtf did you get the idea to claim with Mijin Gakure? lol.

No this is not always the case, in merit party the person with most hate dies and mob doesn't go unclaim. I think Mijin Gakure is a special case. In anycase i've used it before it this was the first time it happened, got me all puzzled.

[evilpaul]

About half the times I stood around for hours waiting for the pre-crabs to pop the guy who ended up getting claim on KA used Mijin Gakure. And his/her party killed it afterwards without it going unclaimed.

[Wizrow]

If you cast on something, lets say flash. and no one else does any action on it, and then you cast on someone else in party(cure, haste), the mob will go unclaimed. So you voke it after everyone has acted on it, then mijin, it goes unclaimed. same deal.

[Medivac]

the best part if some 1 else claims it, you blow urself up and look dumb

[Silenus]

Yes.

[Zosi]

Mijin very well may be a special case, but it's not uncommon for mobs to go unclaimed when a tank dies for any reason. It seems to happen more often when there's nobody engaged, such as sleeping Tiamat or <25% Cerb where your tanks are tanking unengaged.

[Therin]

That's what i don't get, if erasing hate means a target would go unclaim, then why is it that when other people fight things and tank gets killed it doesn't do that. I mean other people in my party had hate through voke and stun too. If that's how the game mechanic works then you'd expect ANY monster would go unclaim if the person with most hate dies, ie; tanks. Did the exact same thing a few days ago, KA didn't go unclaim at all.

It all depends on who had the last action on the mob. If a tank has the most hate, but a BLM casts Stun, and the tank dies immediately after the mob won't go unclaimed. If a tank dies after Provoking and no one else has done any action after the tank did, the mob WILL go unclaimed (it'll take about a second, or a second and a half).

Mijin is a bad idea. I had a NIN try to Mijin claim Tiamat at 1% after an LS wiped on Fairy once, thinking he could kill it or at the very least claim it, but as soon as he Mijin'd it went yellow again and another shell entirely ganked it and finished it off.

[Seditedi]

SE needs to fix this imo, kinda broken if you ask me, but yea. Myself and 2 RDM buddies were trio'ing MG for fun a few weeks back another shell beat us to claim wiped with like 10-12 lol, MG seemed to go unclaimed everytime if I/other RDM had casted on it right before nuking a Slave pop. If I casted Bind on MG then nuked a Slave dead, MG would unclaim, but if I did not cast on MG before nuking a Slave it'd stay claimed. It was pretty funny, LS that wiped prior to us got a little bit pissy after we let it reset then pulled, every time it went yellow 2-3 of them were voking it, but couldn't claim because we had too much hate.

[Scary]

I've successfully claimed with Mijin Gakure before but somehow this time it backfired. I think everyone in my party used their spell/JAs right before 2hr went off in my macro and it juz went unclaimed because it instnatly erased whatever prior hate was placed on it by other members. It even took 2 swings at our BLM too. So very odd. I think Mijin is different from other things in the game when it comes to hate. Because I can understand mobs going yellow if you kite and don't engage and make it chase you, but if you got a gruop of people surrounding it and it still goes unclaimed, now that's juz weird. Guess it's back to simply voking and hoping for luck to favor me.

[Aerides]

Also, don't use Mijin to get the final kill if you actually want the drop from the mob. I know plenty of ninja's who want to blow up and kill stuff, but I have also seen evidence here on BG of the unclaim thing happening as the mob dies. (specific example was an Ouryu - mob went yellow, MG killed, everyone got kicked out of the BC and did not get the orb for Bahamut even though they won). Less extreme, but I have seen it when solo'ing on BST if for some reason the mob goes yellow and dies with dot while swapping pets, no xp for me.

Mijin kill can result in no drops. Mob unclaimed when it dies means no one gets stuff. Don't do it.

[Judai]

This is quite possibly the dumbest shit i ever heard. Mob go unclaimed for a split second after Mijin. I fucking hate idiots NINs who think Mijin is the coolest thing and use it on whatever. Not too mention the people who try to Mijin kill and the mob doesn't die and oh shit, now we have no tank. Thanks! Mijin is there to save your own ass or as some last resort move, not to try to killshot shit and possibly lose the loot or claim, just to be cool.

[Hakamaru]

Mijin kill can result in no drops. Mob unclaimed when it dies means no one gets stuff. Don't do it.

Technically, a "Mijin kill" is safe. You run into trouble when your tank is at the top of the hate list, uses mijin and doesn't get kill-shot. Then your red HNM can turn yellow and potentially die to DoT (note: that's when the yelling starts).


I don't understand the motivation for a mijin claim anyways. Does Mijin Gakure circumvent the claim-delay or something? Or is it just a second-chance JA to try after you spent 'voke? If the latter is the case... lol "/wait 1" is an eternity. You should use a windower macro with a "pause 0.3" or something.

Edit: Oh, and for god's sake... use /ja "Mijin Gakure" <lastst> instead of that /targetnpc line.

[Dakana]

This was a joke right? I mean come on