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Thread: Store TP for MNK etc.     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1

    Store TP for MNK etc.

    Not a wiz on the equations for store TP and MNK delay...how much would be necessary to add a full point gained per hit? Mainly considering Rajas, Usu feet, Brutal which totals +13, doesn't sound like it would be enough and the feet are pimp anyway, just an afterthought.

  2. #2
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    it would take ~+23 to Store TP to add a full 1 TP Per Swing for a 75 MNK with Destroyers if my math is anywheres approximating to right

  3. #3

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Sounds like it'd be right, I doubted 13 would be enough, thanks ;p

  4. #4
    Chram
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    some strange math going on in here.

    (assumes destroyers)
    348 total delay, -> 174 per hand: 4.9 TP per hand

    4.9 TP per hand: 21 hits for 100TP

    18 hits for 100 TP at 5.6TP.
    store TP of +15.

    19 hits (a 'full round' saved) is a mere +8 TP

  5. #5

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amele
    some strange math going on in here.

    (assumes destroyers)
    348 total delay, -> 174 per hand: 4.9 TP per hand

    4.9 TP per hand: 21 hits for 100TP

    18 hits for 100 TP at 5.6TP.
    store TP of +15.

    19 hits (a 'full round' saved) is a mere +8 TP
    Destroyers is 4.9 TP per round?

  6. #6
    Chram
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    unless I did the conversion wrong.

    75 monk, no weapon is 300 delay I think
    destroyers are +48 delay

    that's both hands, so each hand is half delay. (174)
    174 should be 4.9

  7. #7

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    I think by "Per Round" he means both swings. So per round it would be 9.8 TP.

  8. #8

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    I think per fist is more useful though, so in order to drop it to 17 swings you need +15?

  9. #9

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Edit: yeah I'm dumb, these 2 last posts were written b4 I actually read the OP's question... So yeah, ignore them and just go for the above posters, I guess.



    Gonna assume the TP/hit from MNK75 with Destroyers was calculated correctly by you guys, giving 4,9%TP/hit. If it’s wrong I’ll edit this post later after I confirm the x%TP/hit.

    100%TP ÷ 4, 9%TP/hit = 20,4 hits
    Thus you normally need 21 hits to build 102%TP with no sTP on.
    Assuming you got 100% acc during those 21 hits, you’d have built the TP in 11 rounds.
    W/o merits or special gear, you should get +10% kick attacks(? I’m not a MNK, don’t even know if KA gives TP back), which may give you an extra attack during the TP build, lowering your TP build to 10 rounds.
    You can add the DA, TA or w/e there. I’m gonna make the maths only with the Destroyer’s TP return + KA average (so in average 10 full rounds for 102%)

    Without SAM sub (I’m no MNK, don’t know if you guys ever sub SAM for any reason), you’d need:

    For 18 hit build (9 rounds) you’ll need [(100%TP ÷ 18) ÷ 4.9] = 1.1428, so you need + 15 sTP.
    For 16 hit build (8 rounds) you’ll need [(100%TP ÷ 16) ÷ 4.9] = 1.2755, so you need + 28 sTP.

    With KA, DA or w/e these numbers can be lowered, but that's kinda dependent of luck.

  10. #10

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Alright, here goes the calculation that I think is right. But I'm really not sure of how the delay on H2H weapons are added and divided. I think this is correct:

    Destroyer's delay = + 48
    MNK75's H2H delay = 300
    Total delay = 348

    TP/Hit for Delay 348 = 5 + [(348 - 180)*1.5]/180
    TP/Hit for Delay 348 = 6.4%

    I'm pretty sure this calculated TP is for each attack, totalizing 12.8%TP each round. Lets forget that 12.8%TP for a while, because it gets screwed if you toss a KA there.

    100%TP ÷ 6.4%TP/Hit = 15.625Hits, which rounds up to 16 Hits for 102.4%TP

    To lower it in 1 round (so 14 Hits), you'd need:
    (100%TP ÷ 14Hits) ÷ 6.4%TP/Hit = 1.1160
    So you need 11.6 sTP, which rounds up to 12 sTP in gear.

    To lower it in 2 rounds (so 12 Hits), you'd need:
    (100%TP ÷ 12Hits) ÷ 6.4%TP/Hit = 1.3020
    So you need 30.2 sTP, which rounds up to 31 sTP in gear.

    I'm pretty sure +31 sTP is pretty impossible for non SAMs, so the best you can to is lower your TP building by adding 12 sTP in gear, which can be possible in your case simply by using Rajas and Usukane Sune-ate.
    However, remember that when we calculate that, we're also considering the TP return from the WS. Lets take for example Asuran Fists (8 attacks). Lets supose that for w/e reason you did it while wearing Rajas and Usukane sune-ate. On your 1st hit of the WS, you'll have built the same 7.16%TP that you build on your normal attacks. Then add +1%TP for each extra hit, so +7% if you hit all attacks, totallyzing 14.16%TP. Lets retake the maths from there:

    (100%TP - 14.16%TP) ÷ 7.16%TP/Hit = 12 Hits.

    So in Asuran Fists case, the set up works fine, because it lowers the number of attacks needed to build 100%TP to a pair number. You can do the same math for other WSs, but have to take in consideration how many hits you do in that WS, and how many you land.

  11. #11
    Relic Shield
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Hmm do MNKs care their TP/hit that much? :/

    I thought Store TP is mostly high delay weapon wielders' concern and haste is mostly low delay weapon wielders' concern
    Not to mention Asuran Fist can have many possibility of TP return.
    ooops derailed

    Anyway, just my thought for fast attacker sTP build consideration...

  12. #12

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Not really care per se, but an afterthought to reasons for wanting to acquire gear. I mean, reducing your number of hits for 100TP by one, 22% haste, and your kick attacks and/or double attack make MNK just that much more sexy.

  13. #13
    Relic Shield
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    That would be your minor concern then 8)

  14. #14
    Chram
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    well, 7 from usu-sune ate is 'free'.

    6 from usu-haramaki is 'free'.

    1 from brutal is free.

    at that point, is it worth wearing a rajas instead of an accuracy ring? (probably) 2.5 acc is probably worth shaving another hit off your TP to 100 for faster asurans.


    would I set out to build a store TP monk? no way. but there's enough of it floating around on pieces a monk *would* wear that it's worth looking at where the breaks are.

  15. #15

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    I'd never upgrade body though >_>

  16. #16
    Puppetmaster
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    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voullab
    I’m not a MNK, don’t even know if KA gives TP back.
    Kick Attacks give TP, counter attacks don't. As far as I've ever seen it gives the same TP as a fist attack, but never paid that much attention to it to be sure.

  17. #17

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill
    I'd never upgrade body though >_>

    Why?

    More acc then Shura, 12 less attack, but more str/dex/acc/evasion and if you have the rest of the set, you are at the haste cap.. (with BB). I could maybe understand waiting to upgrade body till you were 4/5s, but the body doesnt exactly get blown out of the water by shura, in fact I would be suprised if you could even notice the difference in a parse. Usu just gives you a good deal more survivability.

    To bad usukane never drops for my shell.

  18. #18

    Re: Store TP for MNK etc.

    The only reason I'd want it is for tanking, which now I use Melee Cyclas. It's hardly worth the price tag especially considering I am upgrading Ares Body as well. I'd do Skadi before Usu. I have Shura+1, I'm happy with that.

    Shura Togi +1: DEF: 41 HP-55 ACC+11 ATK+22
    Usakane Haramaki: DEF:40 STR+8 DEX+8 INT+8 ACC+12 EVA+12 STP+6

    It's really just an HQ2 Scorpion Harness.

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