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  1. #21
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    For all I know, you're probably right. But let's play Devil's Advocate for a second and assume the above situation is true.
    How much conviction do you still have towards your opinion in a case such as that?

    And yes I know, it's RMT. And not everyone feels the same way about it, hence, "morally gray".

  2. #22
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    For all I know, you're probably right. But let's play Devil's Advocate for a second and assume the above situation is true.
    How much conviction do you still have towards your opinion in a case such as that?

    And yes I know, it's RMT. And not everyone feels the same way about it, hence, "morally gray".
    Still morally black and white, you either mind it for how it fucks shit up as a whole or you don't care and look back to 2005's economy and RMT providing all the footwork for synth mats as a godsend. The people who are "gray" about it are frankly people whose opinions shouldn't be regarded at all.

  3. #23
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    For all I know, you're probably right. But let's play Devil's Advocate for a second and assume the above situation is true.
    How much conviction do you still have towards your opinion in a case such as that?

    And yes I know, it's RMT. And not everyone feels the same way about it, hence, "morally gray".
    If they were wrongfully banned, then I still don't think they should go out and buy an account, but I also don't think they should start over.

    Personally if I got banned from a game when I didn't do anything wrong, I would go play a different game.

    EDITED BECAUSE SHIT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE

  4. #24
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    For all I know, you're probably right. But let's play Devil's Advocate for a second and assume the above situation is true.
    How much conviction do you still have towards your opinion in a case such as that?

    And yes I know, it's RMT. And not everyone feels the same way about it, hence, "morally gray".
    Still morally black and white, you either mind it for how it fucks shit up as a whole or you don't care and look back to 2005's economy and RMT providing all the footwork for synth mats as a godsend. The people who are "gray" about it are frankly people whose opinions shouldn't be regarded at all.
    Well, take a look at Bercus' answer. He's offered situations where he does care about it, and offered those where he doesn't.
    His opinion is "gray", definitely not black or white in any sense. Should it not be regarded?

    I'll come out and say I think along similar lines, and that it all depends on the context of accounts switching hands.

  5. #25
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Charismatic
    Personally if I got banned from a game when I didn't do anything wrong, I would go play a different game.
    It is possible to love the game, but hate the management system.

  6. #26
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Should it not be regarded?
    Frankly, yes. It's giving justification to the action based on the subsequent intent rather than considering that the intent of the action at all in of itself was corrupt to begin with. "It's ok if the buyer's not a botter"? Seriously now... Nice guy, wonderful interviews, and I'd still disregard it completely. An account buyer is an RMTer, you either don't give a shit or you do, the action doesn't suddenly become ok because you don't have a personal gripe with the person otherwise.

  7. #27
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    Quote Originally Posted by Charismatic
    Personally if I got banned from a game when I didn't do anything wrong, I would go play a different game.
    It is possible to love the game, but hate the management system.
    So, you'd take the risk of being banned for nothing all over again? I know I sure as hell wouldn't.
    If they really were banned for no reason I'm sure that'd be something on their mind.

    So what then? Keep buying accounts over and over?

  8. #28
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    personally, would you really feel comfortable selling your character? I dont think I could ever do that, i'd give all the gil away and cancel it. Its not just a matter of parting with what made you great, its the fact that can you live with the fact that theres going to be some retard playing your guy? Not knowing how to do it, or even if he did know how to play the character, knowing that all those friends you made wouldnt know its not you.

    Can you honestly say the guy you sell it too would make the same actions you would take in every situation? Of course you cant. So its not really his character.

    Its your character being a retard. All the time you took building him/her and making it great. idk, to me its like selling part of your soul. Now i dont mean to get all deep and shit, but your going to say that after all the years staring at the same guy, you wouldnt want the best for him? youve grown to love him and laugh and die and adventure with him. Why not say goodbye together.

    >.> im not saying hes alive, but its just too wierd for me to ever consider it, if this makes sense im not sure ><

  9. #29
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    Should it not be regarded?
    Frankly, yes. It's giving justification to the action based on the subsequent intent rather than considering that the intent of the action at all in of itself was corrupt to begin with.
    Let's assume you have a gun (because you're black), and you shoot me because I have the last watermelon in all the world.
    Now let's assume you have a gun, and you shoot me because I'm coming at you with a knife (like a stupid white boy).

    Now let's assume in either situation someone would say you were wrong in both cases, because you shouldn't have had a gun to begin with.

    Personally, I think justification based on subsequent intent can be important in certain situations, amirite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charismatic
    So, you'd take the risk of being banned for nothing all over again? I know I sure as hell wouldn't.
    If they really were banned for no reason I'm sure that'd be something on their mind.
    If it came down to a situation where someone was repeatedly banned, I'm not sure it would be because of "accidents", like the one I put forth, so this is largely a non-issue.

  10. #30
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Let's assume you have a gun (because you're black), and you shoot me because I have the last watermelon in all the world.
    Now let's assume you have a gun, and you shoot me because I'm coming at you with a knife (like a stupid white boy).
    This is so ridiculous to compare a matter of life and death to a video game but it can be boiled down to whether or not you find murder justifiable. Even if your answer is eye for an eye or "It depends on the situation" someone can always it boil it down to whether or not -someone- finds murder justifiable. Might be the sociopathic side of me but I personally don't really care if someone is killed. I'm not shooting you over some fucking watermelon, but I will gladly put one in your eye if I know full well that you have no qualms with and intend on killing me. Just because you have no issue with something doesn't mean that you have to act like it's not wrong to do, it also doesn't mean you'd go out of your way to do it.

    Since the question was loaded, I know someone will be like "you seriously have a problem with someone swiping their credit card for a character but not over killing someone? Get your priorities in check." *shrug*

  11. #31
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    this is largely a non-issue.
    I agree with you on that part... as I don't even see the scenario you brought up as a possibility anyhow since I don't know of one person who was permabanned that actually DIDN'T break the ToS.

    Generally that's their story, but when people dig deeper it turns out to be that they lied.
    For the other cases, people would just fess up to what they did.

    I'm just going to drop this here.

  12. #32
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    This is so ridiculous to compare a matter of life and death to a video game...
    Don't see how this is a valid point, the life/death aspect really doesn't matter, it's the intent behind the action.
    Even if I have a knife and I'm coming at you, nothing is forcing you to shoot to kill.

    And so like you said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    ...it can be boiled down to whether or not you find murder justifiable.
    So are we in agreement that certain things that are normally black and white issues can be morally gray?
    (Committing murder vs. self-defense.)

    Shit is situational, as they say.

  13. #33
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot
    Murder is murder, whether you can justify it or not, it was still morally wrong to kill somebody. Grandpa felt bad when he killed Stinkmeaner.

    RMT is RMT. No grey zone about it; you buy a character, you're empowering a system that's been the cause of more fucking over of people in-game than a thousand flail attempts.
    No one is saying that killing someone isn't murder, nor is anyone saying that buying an account isn't RMT.

    The question is: Should intent matter?

  14. #34
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    And why not? Because it's not the "right" way to do things?

    Being on a higher moral platform than someone else is certainly applaudable, but not realistic for the world we live in, offline or online.

  15. #35
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    And why not? Because it's not the "right" way to do things?

    Being on a higher moral platform than someone else is certainly applaudable, but not realistic for the world we live in, offline or online.
    Or you could instead take the morally base approach to it and accept that the loss of a human life is perfectly acceptable (and that some/a lot of cases downright call for it). Setting an arbitrary bar on a case by case basis is something that I guess the law is designed to do but generally 99% of people will be in the category that state that it's OK to end someone's life (no though, it doesn't mean that I equate the concerned mother that wishes the serial rapist were given a cyanide smoothie for breakfast with said rapist that slit multiple children's throats after raping them and wiping their blood on their teddy bears). Then you have the people who are opposed to frying even serial killers because "murder is murder".

    One could state that even if intent were operative, the intent of an account buyer is to RMT to stick it to SE, even if they dont intend to stick it to their fellow player afterwards.

  16. #36
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    And why not? Because it's not the "right" way to do things?

    Being on a higher moral platform than someone else is certainly applaudable, but not realistic for the world we live in, offline or online.
    Or you could instead take the morally base approach to it and accept that the loss of a human life is perfectly acceptable (and that some/a lot of cases downright call for it). Setting an arbitrary bar on a case by case basis is something that I guess the law is designed to do but generally 99% of people will be in the category that state that it's OK to end someone's life
    So, is it not feasible that one could take a morally base approach to an RMT'd character who has no specific intent to destroy the community?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    One could state that even if intent were operative, the intent of an account buyer is to RMT to stick it to SE, even if they dont intend to stick it to their fellow player afterwards.
    How many players wouldn't want to stick it to SE, honestly?

    Lastly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    (no though, it doesn't mean that I equate the concerned mother that wishes the serial rapist were given a cyanide smoothie for breakfast with said rapist that slit multiple children's throats after raping them and wiping their blood on their teddy bears).
    What the fuck, Ryko. O.o

  17. #37
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    So, is it not feasible that one could take a morally base approach to an RMT'd character who has no specific intent to destroy the community?
    The base approach in a parallel would be saying "ok RMT is fine, and a lot of cases downright call for it, especially since SE are such cockmonglers", which was what I was getting at.

    What the fuck, Ryko. O.o
    Was just talking in extremes >_>

  18. #38
    >The Implying
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    The base approach in a parallel would be saying "ok RMT is fine, and a lot of cases downright call for it", which was what I was getting at.
    Well, if you're in a position to end someone's life, it's likely you're also in a position to simply disable them rather than outright kill them.
    There are very few cases where murder is downright called for, if you're on the platform that murder is generally "wrong".

    Likewise, there aren't any cases where RMT is downright called for.

    But that's not what we're talking about is it? We're talking about justification based upon intent.

  19. #39
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    And I already stated that using that mindset, an RMTers intent is always always malicious and rarely if ever in what could be considered self-defense. At worst it's someone who got bagged when someone else's account on the same card got banned, and in that case they pretty much gave up their account to plain ignorance. In that case the RMT is practically always the aggressor.

  20. #40
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Cue "86% of statistics quotes are made up on the spot"?

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