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  1. #41
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Can't really say I made a statistic as much as I did a blanket statement. I can name 1 person off the top of my head where I have no clue why they were banned. Even if they lie or claim ignorance the eggs broken in SE's retardation omelette are generally few and very far between. The most notable/common "bystander" was already mentioned.

  2. #42
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    Should it not be regarded?
    Frankly, yes. It's giving justification to the action based on the subsequent intent rather than considering that the intent of the action at all in of itself was corrupt to begin with. "It's ok if the buyer's not a botter"? Seriously now... Nice guy, wonderful interviews, and I'd still disregard it completely. An account buyer is an RMTer, you either don't give a shit or you do, the action doesn't suddenly become ok because you don't have a personal gripe with the person otherwise.
    I said in a case where an account switches hands between RL friends or online game friends that I do not care. I can still be against it.
    Its their money, their problem. But I don´t care about it. It doesn´t hurt me.
    This happens usually because friends want to keep an account they used to play with or whatever.

    What I care about is gilselling/botting. If this is involved in it, then it becomes our business. We have to deal with botters or
    those gilsellers camping against us 24/7. Of course account buying is wrong. But what is worse.
    When you buy it from a friend? Or when you buy it from IGE or sell it to IGE?
    Selling, buying to IGE is keeping the RMT circle rotating. Both is wrong yes, but about the one thing I care and the other I don´t care.

    If I know a RL friend of mine gave his account to another one of us. Idc. If I find out he got 100$ for it.
    So let it be it. It didn´t hurt anyone of us. I don´t care. I would play with that guy, because he is a friend of mine.
    Now if he would bot (I am glad noone of the germans I play with is retarded enough to do) I would NOT play with him at all,
    since it would destroy my fun at the game probably.

    That´s why I made a difference between account buying. So far I know all my rl friends would only
    give their chars away for free. And I would so the same. I would probably give most stuff away and
    then if someone wants to pay the monthly fee, give it to a RL friend I know it is in good hands
    and won´t have any bad effect to anyone.

  3. #43
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    But what is worse.
    When you buy it from a friend? Or when you buy it from IGE or sell it to IGE?
    An action doesn't suddenly become justifiable because there's worse out there.

  4. #44
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    But what is worse.
    When you buy it from a friend? Or when you buy it from IGE or sell it to IGE?
    An action doesn't suddenly become justifiable because there's worse out there.
    In this particular instance I don't think he's attempting to justify it, I think he recognizes that it's still wrong... but just doesn't care.

  5. #45
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Gippo
    personally, would you really feel comfortable selling your character? I dont think I could ever do that, i'd give all the gil away and cancel it. Its not just a matter of parting with what made you great, its the fact that can you live with the fact that theres going to be some retard playing your guy? Not knowing how to do it, or even if he did know how to play the character, knowing that all those friends you made wouldnt know its not you.

    Can you honestly say the guy you sell it too would make the same actions you would take in every situation? Of course you cant. So its not really his character.

    Its your character being a retard. All the time you took building him/her and making it great. idk, to me its like selling part of your soul. Now i dont mean to get all deep and shit, but your going to say that after all the years staring at the same guy, you wouldnt want the best for him? youve grown to love him and laugh and die and adventure with him. Why not say goodbye together.

    >.> im not saying hes alive, but its just too wierd for me to ever consider it, if this makes sense im not sure ><

    My thoughts, exactly.

    About people who bought an account, well... if you bought it from sources like IGE I think you're the same trash as people who buy gil or cheat, which is more likely to be related, if a person choose the "easy way" once, why not choosing it again?
    If the account is your friend's who quit, and you don't have any account I think you are depriving yourself of a good chunk of fun and of the game itself. I can see that xping can be tedious, sometimes a grind to the next level, LFP sucks, etc. but (at least personally) if you like the job you're levelling you most likely get past it
    Recently a friend of mine on the verge of quitting gave me her account (for free)... although I had fun playing with jobs I havent leveled yet at their full potential, it got old quickly... To the point that I only log it if I need a Warp/Raise III or some additional storage.

  6. #46
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    But what is worse.
    When you buy it from a friend? Or when you buy it from IGE or sell it to IGE?
    An action doesn't suddenly become justifiable because there's worse out there.
    So you have 2 friends. One gives his account to the other one.
    You later find out he paid him 100$. You would not play with him?
    (This could be because the other friend wants to start the game, or the other friend wants to have a 2nd account for PL or other things
    and already plays)

    Other example, someone you don´t know is known for buying an account from IGE for 500$, including some gil.
    Then yes I would not play with this person.

    I have not meet such a situation yet with my friends, no I have no contact to people I used to play with
    because they sold their account to UAEs , who might even bot too, and have denied everything like parties from them.

    But what I am saying is when a friend of mine is envolved in it. But he is not doing
    anything else then want to hang arround with us, not botting, nothing then playing with us,
    then I would not care. It is still wrong, that he paid money for it, because it is against the ToS, but I would not care.

  7. #47
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by bercus
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    But what is worse.
    When you buy it from a friend? Or when you buy it from IGE or sell it to IGE?
    An action doesn't suddenly become justifiable because there's worse out there.
    So you have 2 friends. One gives his account to the other one.
    You later find out he paid him 100$. You would not play with him?
    (This could be because the other friend wants to start the game, or the other friend wants to have a 2nd account for PL or other things
    and already plays)

    Other example, someone you don´t know is known for buying an account from IGE for 500$, including some gil.
    Then yes I would not play with this person.
    Other example, your friend that you are perfectly ok with otherwise buys an account for 500 bucks from IGE because none of his friends had an account to hand him for the low low bargain of a hundred bucks. If you say you would play with him there then the operative is not IGE at all but rather that you'd find anything acceptable as long as the person was a good enough buddy to you.

    As for me personally? I ridicule the shit out of account buyers, I don't really care who they are.

  8. #48
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    The plattform of IGE and other sites and potential gilbuyers are the reason gilsellers excist.
    That´s why I do care if that´s the case.
    So yes I would totally not play with someone who bought his char from IGE or whatever site, who is a friend of mine.
    An account trade between friends could never become the reason gilsellers excist.

    If accounts would just switch owners there would have not been much problems ever.
    The only real RMT problem has always been gilsellers and the potential gilbuyers, with gilsellers
    monopolizing stuff.

    I know none of my friends would ever buy a account. All are playing that want to play and new people from my friends
    start from 0. It was just my opinion to what I would tolerate. And I would tolerate people in my city
    doing between them whatever they please to do with their pixles, with the best solution without any money flow.

  9. #49
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    An account trade between friends could never become the reason gilsellers excist.
    In essence it's exactly why gilsellers exist. They know people like your friends are looking to equate someone else's effort for their money, you're basically just raising a stink to half the problem because someone was smart enough to capitalize on it. Are gilsellers the problem? Absolutely, but they would not exist if it weren't for people existing that decide to just out of pocket for someone's account. That includes everyone who does it, including personal 2 individual party transaction.s You do realize that you're basically condoning the action (paying real money for game property) as long as it isnt centralized, right? It's essentially pretty much the equivalent of saying "it's ok if a married friend fucks around at some gloryholes, it just becomes an issue when he's hitting up his local gay-mart for a blow-light special"...

    Or more accurately it'd be like someone saying that it's ok if someone picked up a program that did everything app did for 10 bycks as long as they didn't support and perpetuate maury by buying it off of him. It's still doing the same thing.

    So yes I would totally not play with someone who bought his char from IGE or whatever site, who is a friend of mine.
    Ok example 4, the flipside. 2 people you don't know, but belong to an LS that may or may not bot but doesn't admit to it decide to "account trade" 1000 bucks for whatever they get. Is that ok? What if it's 2k, 3? 5? Maybe it's not 1 account between 2 friends but suddenly 2 accounts between 4, or let's say an LS notorious for this, dozens of players in the LS got their 1-5000 dollar "Friend accounts" and they see no reason to stop.

  10. #50

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I find it funny that people make such a blanket statement as RMT is RMT is RMT is RMT yet still pay the same real money to play the game every month.

    There are definitely shades of gray and the question is not really whether someone pays real money to play the game, it's whether someone actually worked for the account they are using.

    If someone buys an account for 100 bucks, well they've spent less money on this game than you have if you've been playing since the release. You are a hypocrite to make such a 100% statement that any real money transfer is wrong cause that's what you've been doing since the game came out. And if it's a question of the people who the money goes to is ruining the game, well who has ruined it more than SE in their poor application of customer service, poor game mechanics among other things. the only reason this game is any fun is because of the people that play it, not SE yet you still pay them real money every month.

    There are definitely different cases that should be approached in a different way. Not every situation carries malicious intent, and you are very ignorant to think so.

  11. #51
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I find it funny that people make such a blanket statement as RMT is RMT is RMT is RMT yet still pay the same real money to play the game every month.
    Do you mean to undermine any and all credibility behind any argument you could make or was that some sort of whoosh? Should I just call you stupid with this argument or not? A person paying their fee is paying to play the game, the person paying that 100 bucks is paying to bypass playing the game. It is absolutely no different than someone "not meaning to hurt anyone" and buying 100 mill to work hard for their mandaus, who the fuck are they hurting, right?

    There are definitely different cases that should be approached in a different way. Not every situation carries malicious intent, and you are very ignorant to think so.
    I'll gladly take my supposed ignorance over the absolute retardation that was the entirety of your post.

  12. #52

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    I find it funny that people make such a blanket statement as RMT is RMT is RMT is RMT yet still pay the same real money to play the game every month.
    Do you mean to undermine any and all credibility behind any argument you could make or was that some sort of whoosh? Should I just call you stupid with this argument or not? A person paying their free is paying to play the game, the person paying that 100 bucks is paying to bypass playing the game. It is absolutely no different than someone "not meaning to hurt anyone" and buying 100 mill to work hard for their mandaus, who the fuck are they hurting, right?

    [quote:1r5v4c0j]There are definitely different cases that should be approached in a different way. Not every situation carries malicious intent, and you are very ignorant to think so.
    I'll gladly take my supposed ignorance over the absolute retardation that was the entirety of your post.[/quote:1r5v4c0j]

    Exactly, who are they hurting? You? How much has your game suffered because of someone getting a relic, however it was achieved?

    An account that passes between the hands of two real people who just want to play the game does not, and will not affect you any worse than someone retarded who has played since the release that is still a dumbass.

    While I understand your need for aggression and sounding like a tough guy in your post, my point is that it's not so much the money that people care about as whether or not the person taking on an account is going to be an RMT who monopolizes things or a dumbass who wears wise gear and melee's as a rdm. You make the blanket statement that it's all wrong because you are so narrowminded and self-centered to realize that not every situation negatively affects you personally and that not every account transaction is done with malicious intent.

    Let's see if you can actually compose an intelligent post without needing to sound like the tough guy and bang your chest. I'm not even speaking to you directly, or wasn't in my previous post anyway.

    PS: go ahead and bang your chest, I said what I wanted and really have nothing to argue with you.

  13. #53
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Exactly, who are they hurting? You? How much has your game suffered because of someone getting a relic, however it was achieved?
    I could easily state that Moron A spending 100 mill of bought gil and raising the prices of currency up to 3-5 mill a hundred piece in 2005 and 2006 essentially dicked the wallet for my aegis and essentially put me 50 mill in debt instead of at least with 50 mill to spare, and you know what? I'd be right. Just because you're woefully shortsighted doesn't mean that your actions do not affect those around you, even people you do not interact with.

    *bang bang bang* Fine, I act like a tough guy. It's better throwing in the ridiculous hypocrite card on an issue that doesn't correlate in the slightest. You would have had a better segue if you asked if I mocked people for paying SE for their moogle caps. (and would you look at that? I do. Granted I don't mock them for going to a fanfest, but I laugh that SE is essentially telling them that 80 bucks is ok for a snazzy hat if that's what they were going for)

  14. #54

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    Exactly, who are they hurting? You? How much has your game suffered because of someone getting a relic, however it was achieved?
    I could easily state that Moron A spending 100 mill of bought gil and raising the prices of currency up to 3-5 mill a hundred piece in 2005 and 2006 essentially dicked the wallet for my aegis and essentially put me 50 mill in debt instead of at least with 50 mill to spare, and you know what? I'd be right. Just because you're woefully shortsighted doesn't mean that your actions do not affect those around you, even people you do not interact with.

    *bang bang bang* Fine, I act like a tough guy. It's better throwing in the ridiculous hypocrite card on an issue that doesn't correlate in the slightest.
    Last thing I promise, but sure the person who raised the price of the currency was the culprit, not how they got their funds. I'm sure you'd still be complaining if they raised the price of currency 3-5 million but had legit earned money. So again, it's the actions of the player and not necessarily how they acquired their account/gil.

  15. #55
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I really don't have to explain how a guy with a goal that many people have that gets an exorbitant amount of money out of nowhere directly leads to prices raising, right?

    "The prices only raise because the sellers see that they can get away with raising it when they still sell quickly, right?"

    "And they only still sell quickly because someone with money flowing out of their asshole has the means to buy them quickly"

    "Well what of the guy who spends money on 100 mill but is frugle with his money..."

    "Something tells me he didn't just splurge on 100 mill to be sensible about it."

    And so on, should we continue from there?

  16. #56
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    ^_^

    A Tech support employee once told me, its a violation for my brother, who lives with me, to control my character in any kind of way. And if they ever find out, they would ban me. Hmmmm..

    but on topic, RMT, or not...i dont understand who are you to judge, SE has a whole team for tracking that kind of shit, your job is to pay the your $12+ and enjoy the game. If someone RMTs, its his issue, and SE's, not yours...you play Final Fantasy XI, you dont own shit in it, not even that character you worked on for several years. That being said, SE can, at any point, just take your character away for absolutely no reason..So i really dont see how it is any of anyone's business, lol. I would never buy an account, not because of the economy or anyone playing. but because 1. i can't afford it 2. I think its a waste of money, anyways 3. I dont trust strangers (ironically, said).

    I'd sell a character though, and its not really selling if you want to be precise, its more like giviing the password SE gave you to someone else for an amount to use SE's service, because in the first place you didnt own the character, you're just giving the password to someone else. meh, SE's system is pretty messed up if you ask me.

    EDIT::
    Quote Originally Posted by Gippo
    personally, would you really feel comfortable selling your character? I dont think I could ever do that, i'd give all the gil away and cancel it. Its not just a matter of parting with what made you great, its the fact that can you live with the fact that theres going to be some retard playing your guy? Not knowing how to do it, or even if he did know how to play the character, knowing that all those friends you made wouldnt know its not you.

    Can you honestly say the guy you sell it too would make the same actions you would take in every situation? Of course you cant. So its not really his character.

    Its your character being a retard. All the time you took building him/her and making it great. idk, to me its like selling part of your soul. Now i dont mean to get all deep and shit, but your going to say that after all the years staring at the same guy, you wouldnt want the best for him? youve grown to love him and laugh and die and adventure with him. Why not say goodbye together.

    >.> im not saying hes alive, but its just too wierd for me to ever consider it, if this makes sense im not sure ><
    Truely no offense, but if you really mean what you posted then you need some time off FFXI.

    Those statements are very serious for a game, or a character in a game. Spending several years in a game is never, ever an accomplishment..its just wasting time. This is the mistake we do, spend so much time in FFXI, that we start to think that this is actually important to us, lol.
    Apologies if i offended you.

  17. #57
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    What's the difference between a "bought account" and using your friend/LS member's account? Those who frown on bought accounts should frown on people using accounts other than their own. In the end its the same deal. Sure, that account you have might have been your friend's account and is now your PL bitch, but in the end, its exactly the same. You got lucky in that a friend gave it to you. You didn't want to level another toon to 75, go through the BS of missions, limit breaks, etc. The guy that bought an account wasn't so lucky. He also didn't want to level another toon to 75, etc. Same difference.

  18. #58
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Whatever your feelings on it, its against the ToS (law of the land). So you are either ok with breaking this law or not. Personally I think its stupid to waste more money on a game that I have spent over the years.

    As for the guy who thinks paying SE for FFXI service is the same as RMT, that argument would be saying paying for dinner on a date is the same as prostitution.

    For the guy above me, Ryko was stating that the difference is if money has exchanged hands, it promotes the general greed that drives RMT to capitalize on lazy people who happen to think paying money for virtual characters is ok.

    If lazy fucks didn't exist, there would be no RMT. Market has to be there for a product/service to sell.

  19. #59

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by superfob
    Whatever your feelings on it, its against the ToS (law of the land). So you are either ok with breaking this law or not. Personally I think its stupid to waste more money on a game that I have spent over the years.

    As for the guy who thinks paying SE for FFXI service is the same as RMT, that argument would be saying paying for dinner on a date is the same as prostitution.

    For the guy above me, Ryko was stating that the difference is if money has exchanged hands, it promotes the general greed that drives RMT to capitalizes on lazy people who happen to think paying money for virtual characters is ok.
    Isn't it? it's really just a matter of perspective and semantics and whatever makes you feel better.

    I mean you're saying that its against the ToS and the law of the land, do you ever drive over the speed limit? cause then you're breaking the law of the land but honestly, unless you're an idiot behind the wheel, not paying attention and a danger to people no matter how fast you go, is you going 5 mph over the speed limit really hurting anyone, no.

    is somebody playing someone elses account really hurting anybody no. But if they are an idiot on the account that doesn't have a clue or care to learn about the structure of the game then it doesn't matter whether they've had the account for 4 years or 4 days. An idiot is an idiot regardless of if it's a legit leveled account or a bought account.

    The only real pain in the game is when gil sellers monopolize NM's, cause the inflation is mostly relative anyway. when stuff cost more, people had more, now it costs less, people have less. The economy wasn't ever as big a problem as the mechanics of the game and the monopolization of NM's by gil sellers. Crafting is a different story, people who buy gil destroy that market, but that's a different situation and game mechanic than NM's and xping.

  20. #60
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by loial
    What's the difference between a "bought account" and using your friend/LS member's account? Those who frown on bought accounts should frown on people using accounts other than their own. In the end its the same deal. Sure, that account you have might have been your friend's account and is now your PL bitch, but in the end, its exactly the same. You got lucky in that a friend gave it to you. You didn't want to level another toon to 75, go through the BS of missions, limit breaks, etc. The guy that bought an account wasn't so lucky. He also didn't want to level another toon to 75, etc. Same difference.
    The differene is that when you just use your friends account that no money has been paid? (compared to "bought account")
    No money being paid = no real money trade(rmt).
    I 2-box often. On farming in sky/sea, missions, or stuff like Roc. There is nothing wrong with using a friend account.
    It is not exactly the same.

    If you bought an account though, then there is something wrong.
    And to say it again, because someone else probably didn´t get it. None of my friends buys or sells accounts lol.

    Personally I think its stupid to waste more money on a game that I have spent over the years.
    Yes. And I also don´t think you can compare paying the monthly fee with RMT.

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