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  1. #61
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Firas_Gattz
    ^_^
    Those statements are very serious for a game, or a character in a game. Spending several years in a game is never, ever an accomplishment..its just wasting time. This is the mistake we do, spend so much time in FFXI, that we start to think that this is actually important to us, lol.
    Apologies if i offended you.
    If you wanna get really philosophical about this, everything we do in life is wasting time since we'll all die in the end and the universe will keep on turning whether we exist or not. So from an objective non-spiritual standpoint all human activity is pointless.
    From a subjective standpoint, we all invest our lifetime in various activities, usually divided into work/sleep/leisure. We do things that feel meaningful to us and thus create our own reason to be. It doesn't matter if it's playing golf, collecting stamps, making home videos, raising children, knitting or playing video games, subjectively it's all equally meaningful or meaningless. If the person you were referring to (and I expect a good many other players) chose to invest a few years of lifetime into this and really put his life and soul into it, who are you to judge if it's wasting time or not?

  2. #62
    DAKPluto
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Well, sometimes it is true that GMs don't have a clue. People were jailed/suspended first couple of hours that ToAU went live because the GMs thought they were POS hacking when the warptaru put them on top of the ruins outside Jeuno, lol.

  3. #63
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I don't think the 'speed limit' analogy works - people generally don't have the option of severing their relationship with the federal or state government. You can sever your relationship with SE at any time, though; its entirely voluntary.

  4. #64

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Personally, I'd say it depends on the personality of the person.

    There are reasonable explanations that people buy accounts for that I do not fault them at. If the person is a good person and a good player, then I don't mind if the account is bought (so long as the person isn't masquerading as someone I used to know). It doesn't support the ideals of RMT in my eyes that cause problems for MMOs in the first place (particularly the FFXI economy).

    I'm not interested in any kind of morality war here against account buyers or RMT. I don't look at it along the lines of "that person bought something that they didn't work for in-game, they are as bad as any other RMT!". I do take a look at what factors of RMT have an adverse effect on other players (large scale preferably, or the kind of small scale that when added together makes a large scale problem) and then see if account buying perpetuates that problem or not.

    That being said, with selling an account via RMT site, chances are any gil and possibly items of large worth will be sold and that gil would be RMTd, which would be a problem in my eyes as that would inevitably have an adverse effect on the entire economy, which affects a large number of people.

    Inevitably, it comes down to the individual and through what means the account was bought and if any gil/items from that account was sold to an RMT website.

  5. #65
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    This is so ridiculous to compare a matter of life and death to a video game but it can be boiled down to whether or not you find murder justifiable.
    fyi: murder by definition is never justifiable. justifiable homicide is not called murder.

    ---

    as for the topic, it depends.

    some situations i'm okay with, some situations i don't really care, some situations is sad and pathetic.

    i'm okay with people who quit, can't restore their characters for whatever reason and buy another account so they don't have to start from scratch. in this case, i don't care if the source is a player who's quitting or an RMT company.

    i'm okay with people who buy their friend's accounts as a 2nd character.

    i'm less okay with people who buy 2nd character accounts from people who aren't their friends.

    i'm against people who buy 2nd character accounts from RMT companies. if you can't get a 2nd character from someone quitting, than level it your damn self.

    i'm against people buying accounts to replace their own after they got banned.

    i'm against people buying accounts to replace their own when the account they bought is far more advanced than anything they've earned themselves. a Lv 65 RNG buying a Lv 75 BLM, RDM is gtfo.

  6. #66
    23 years old
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    fyi: murder by definition is never justifiable. justifiable homicide is not called murder.
    It was almost 3 in the morning and in that case I'm calling it a case of semantics, swap the word "murder" in the quote with homicide and from there on as necessary to at least have it make sense (while you may not personally agree with it) and carry on from there. I later sort of touched upon it by saying the context of which a homicide (didnt use the term, so I guess swap it as necessary) is justifiable as an absolute (and not left to the discretion of the person whose beliefs are being questioned, as the topic here had veered to rather unnecessarily) is left up to the law.

  7. #67
    Sippin' on Goblin Drink
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryko
    The base approach in a parallel would be saying "ok RMT is fine, and a lot of cases downright call for it", which was what I was getting at.
    Well, if you're in a position to end someone's life, it's likely you're also in a position to simply disable them rather than outright kill them.
    There are very few cases where murder is downright called for, if you're on the platform that murder is generally "wrong".

    Likewise, there aren't any cases where RMT is downright called for.

    But that's not what we're talking about is it? We're talking about justification based upon intent.
    Wow late post and all that, just got home from class and wanted to respond to the above.
    The bolded is an extremely false assumption created by way too many bad action movies.

    Deadly Force is the military's rules that guide when you are allowed to use lethal force, which the military views as pointing your weapon at a bad guy. Let's use a standard common for both civilian and military guidance, which is Self-Defense or Defense of Others. This is a situation where the defender knows or perceives that the opponent is imminently capable and willing to inflict death or serious bodily harm on the defender or personnel under his protection. This doesn't mean a guy on the road 2 blocks down with the knife, this is the guy with the knife running at our defender within 15-20 yards. Think about how fast anyone can run a 40 yard dash. If the bad guy is already within 15-20 yards, you have at the most 3 seconds to interpret the situation, draw your weapon, round to chamber if not Condition One, clear safety and engage.

    In this Deadly Force scenario, you don't have the choice of whether you're going to wing the guy, shoot the knife out of his hand, or shoot him in the leg. Unless you're an extremely experienced operator, any situation where you have to make the call to use Deadly Force, is a fast paced situation that has gotten out of hand in one to two seconds. It's a situation where you have to respond on instinct and training, not trick shots and bull shit. You're going to be shaking, amped on the boost of adrenaline and needing to put two rounds into center mass. Most times when Deadly Force is authorized, you're going to be responding fast, trying to correct for the probable seconds of freeze you experience encountering this situation. Two rounds in center mass is what all police and military personnel are taught. If your aim is any good, the first round will impact in the abdomino-pelvic cavity and the second round either will either miss high right, or impact the thoracic or head.

    A civilian with a concealed carry permit will also follow the two round guidelines, to limit wrongful death litigation, but probably miss low or into legs first and hit body mass second. A civilian with just a gun for home defense, should be using a shotgun, but if using a pistol will probably fire three to four rounds.

    Bullets going into your chest aren't situations where you shrug off and stay upright, just because it's a 9mm round. You're down and in extreme duress. Taking it in the shoulder isn't some clean cut magic wound that misses vital organs and arteries. Neither is the "leg wound". If the shooter doesn't miss and wind up a casualty himself, the target will be down, and have a 40% or less chance of survival with prompt medical care. "Disabling" the bad guy is a near euphemism for killing.

    If you're talking taking a life in a random barfight, mugging or other situation, hand to hand, that's a probable situation where taking a life in self-defense is hard to justify. In that situation, you have to exert significant force and intent to kill someone, or have freak circumstances occur. That force and intent differ greatly from the force you would use in self-defense and to break free. The defender is more likely to be a casualty in that situation. Which is why folks have guns for self-defense/home.

    To respond to the philosophical question, violence is justified under society's choice. Ending a human life is violence taken to it's extreme, and is justified when dealing with individuals who have demonstrated a willingness to murder and/or commit serious offenses against others in their society.

  8. #68

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Real simple by me.

    You buy anything from an RMT, some of that money will get rolled back into activities that make your game experience suck. Anything. Including accounts.

    You have someone that buys their account, they're not going to give a shit about whether buying from RMTs matters. They'll be much more likely to add to the problem, regardless of being a good player. Good players build themselves from the ground up. Bad players buy their way "in" and see no reason not to buy more, and IGE faps at night thinking of these kinds of players being endgame level and wanting all the pretty shinies they can buy to be l33t.

    Bought accounts = fail, even when the result is a skilled player. It's a flaw in your linkshell waiting to happen, because the player was perfectly willing to cheat to get where he was. Why not again?

  9. #69
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    In response to the OP:

    If someone applied to our LS and mentioned their account is bought, we would not accept them. Couple of reasons: 1) they participated in RMT 2) They don't have the experience that someone who leveled from 1-75 + merits + events has. Even if their skill level was through the roof because they're extremely talented they wouldn't get in because of #1.

  10. #70
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    When dealing with a bought account it kinda depends on the situation.

    Personally I don't like bought accounts but i still understand some situations where people would do it. When it comes to bought accounts the main thing i look at is does the person know the jobs they are playing... If the person never leveled a job to 75 and doesn't know what they are doing then take care. If they bought a character to have better gear and stuff I still have no respect for the person behind the character. Now if they bought the account because they had an account stolen or something of that sorts (not banned.) then I can totally understand that... I wouldn't do it but I can understand why people would.

    edit: These are my views and I don't share the same views as how I vote in my ls. If you bought the account im going to decline you :X

  11. #71

    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Firas_Gattz
    ^_^

    I'd sell a character though, and its not really selling if you want to be precise, its more like giviing the password SE gave you to someone else for an amount to use SE's service, because in the first place you didnt own the character, you're just giving the password to someone else. meh, SE's system is pretty messed up if you ask me.
    Problem with that is the account is specifically in your name, and your name alone. That's like me getting a pass to Gold's Gym with my name and handing it over for some cash to another guy who's going to fake being "me" to get in and use the equipment.

    You can fucking well bet Gold's will yank that card the second they find out you did so.

    The person you sold the account to didn't make a contract with them in the first place. You've given an unauthorized user access to S-E's servers, to places in the game and stuff they have no right to, even if they pay your account fees. That's the whole point of the contract you agreed to. You, and only you get to play and progress through the game. You playing the game in this manner gives you the ability (revokable at any time by S-E) to go through all the in-game stuff you can unlock, loot, etc. Nobody else. There is no "sub-leasing" or "selling" that access, cause it's not yours to sell to begin with. That's why the banstick comes down on any account that gets proven as sold.

  12. #72
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Revenant2
    With the implementation of server transfers a few months ago, an unwanted effect of that being implemented is that it makes it easier for account buyers to progress in the game. Before it was possible to change servers, anyone who bought an account would have to remain on that server and deal with the recriminations of doing so. Now though, they can just hop servers and players on the server they migrate to wouldn't know. Now I think account buying generally is pretty shady but I'm thinking mainly of those who buy accounts from gil selling websites and such. My question is, for advanced players, do you bracket bought accounts in the same way as gilbuyers and RMTers? As in, do you avoid interacting with them, partying with them, telling people you know not to party with them, and blacklisting them etc? Have you had any bad experiences with bought accounts (i.e. experience of players who bought their accounts)?

    short version: bought accounts suck.

    I don't really, er, buy 'bought from a friend.' If it was your friend, and he really was just gonna quit, he'd give you the damn thing provided you pay for the service.

    I knew a guy that sold his account. He was a rl acquaintenance and sold it because he was quitting, and all that. The n00b he sold the account to introduced himself to me as the original guy's brother.

    Anyway, to me, bought account usually means you're going to suck at this game. Granted, after a while you might get to be decent at it. Also, LOL @ you paying however much you pay just to have the privilege to pay more to SE to play ffxi.

  13. #73
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I think it's fair to give most people a chance. A number of people, myself included, lost their accounts due to one reason or another. I got hacked a couple years back and didn't care at the time, but as we all know at one point or another - I wanted to come back. Instead of buying a character (which I think is retarded, why would you waste real money on something you're just going to waste more on?) I traded my WoW toon to someone for his XI character so that I didn't have to redo everything. I guess it's a lazy way out, but anyone who had multiple 75's, sea, and other stuff like that pre ToAU and pre CoP mission patches will agree that it was a lot tougher back then. I will admit, though, that there are a ton of bought accounts floating out there that just suck beyond belief; like this Summoner I was in a party with who thought another party's AOE killed him.

    However, I do think that there's a certain level of where it's "okay" or "not okay" to do this.

    Example where I think it's okay: You quit the game with a slightly above average character for the time; some abjuration gear, sea complete, average merits, etc. You come back on a different character with similar progress because you can't play your own anymore (ie got hacked or banned by SE when you honestly didn't cheat).

    Example where I think it's NOT okay: You quit the game at 65 like someone mentioned before with Wal-mart gear, on ZM4 and Promyvion - Holla, and no merits; or you get perma banned for hacking or botting. You buy a character with sky and sea, full abjuration gear and merits, and a Ridill/Adaberk for the hell of it. Sure, you have everything you could possibly want, but I don't think it's right to go from complete nab to complete pwn with no experience in between.

    I don't really agree with buying a 75 your first time playing the game, though. I dunno. Keep in mind that there are other sites beside IGE where people can trade, buy, and sell their stuff non RMT related. Not exactly the safest thing, but it's possible. >|

  14. #74
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Kidzukai
    I traded my WoW toon to someone for his XI character so that I didn't have to redo everything.
    that really is the same thing. sell one account for $100 buy another for $100, you're just shortening the process.

  15. #75
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I guess, but there's really no "money" involved. I think there's a difference when you're "breaking even" as opposed to spending money.

  16. #76
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    To OP:
    Any form of RMT is against the TOS.

    I used to be against anything even remotely considered RMT but have softened in my views over the years I have played.

    First off anything associated with groups like IGE and a definite no-go for me. These groups alter the game play experience of players by HNM, crafting, botting...etc

    Gil buying in any form from any source I am against.

    Account buying is where I draw distinction. If a player buys an account from a "friend" or private party they aren't automatically scum. Yes I have run into people who have been horrible and have admitted to buying the account but I have given people a chance if they are honest about where they come from and about half the time the people turn out to be good players and people.

    And do remember in the side discussion the Moral black and white does not equate to the black and white of the law. There are plenty of immoral things you can do to screw people over in-game that are not against any rule. Just like there are things against the TOS that are not immoral ie. windower (not speaking of plug-ins).

  17. #77
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyylya
    Isn't it? it's really just a matter of perspective and semantics and whatever makes you feel better.

    I mean you're saying that its against the ToS and the law of the land, do you ever drive over the speed limit? cause then you're breaking the law of the land but honestly, unless you're an idiot behind the wheel, not paying attention and a danger to people no matter how fast you go, is you going 5 mph over the speed limit really hurting anyone, no.

    is somebody playing someone elses account really hurting anybody no. But if they are an idiot on the account that doesn't have a clue or care to learn about the structure of the game then it doesn't matter whether they've had the account for 4 years or 4 days. An idiot is an idiot regardless of if it's a legit leveled account or a bought account.

    The only real pain in the game is when gil sellers monopolize NM's, cause the inflation is mostly relative anyway. when stuff cost more, people had more, now it costs less, people have less. The economy wasn't ever as big a problem as the mechanics of the game and the monopolization of NM's by gil sellers. Crafting is a different story, people who buy gil destroy that market, but that's a different situation and game mechanic than NM's and xping.
    If speeding in real life came with a death sentence, then no I would not speed in any circumstances. Paying for an account is like buying blood diamonds. Supporting groups that screw over people you don't know. Buying an account from IGE may fund another 10-20 gilfarmers to camp NMs on another server for a year.

    No one cares that an idiot with maxed gil and 10 relics are on their server. They just care that because people like that exist is why RMT will never leave this game.

  18. #78
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    I take account buying as the highest and worst level of RMT. As I lurker, I'm surprised there are so many people who don't even care about it, but actually condone it under certain circumstances. The only way I can rationalize that is to think that several people must be guilty of it, and feel the need to justify it. An account buyer can't proudly look down on anyone for anything game-related and be justified. I'd be more inclined to let someone who bought 1m gil off IGE slide than the people running around with bought taru whms on anon and auto-follow, or the people lotting over others on some high-profile item even though they haven't invested half the time and effort into the game to get there. That's the kind of crap that ruins the game. When honest people are discouraged and cheaters are lifted up, nobody is the better for it.

  19. #79
    Also Firas
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Bercus
    I 2-box often. On farming in sky/sea, missions, or stuff like Roc. There is nothing wrong with using a friend account.
    It is not exactly the same.
    According to the employee at Tech Support, That is against their ToS.

    Generally speaking, when you 2 box, usually its on one PC (i.e. using windower) that is also against the TOS.
    Come to think of it, doesnt windower give you an advantage over people playing on PS2/Xbox? TP/MP of the whole PT/Alliance, Distance plugin, and all the other fancy plugins. Those plugins, can well change the tides in a battle..

    Example: stunning Cerb, while not getting in range for AoE.

  20. #80
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    Re: People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

    Quote Originally Posted by Firas_Gattz
    Quote Originally Posted by Bercus
    I 2-box often. On farming in sky/sea, missions, or stuff like Roc. There is nothing wrong with using a friend account.
    It is not exactly the same.
    According to the employee at Tech Support, That is against their ToS.

    Generally speaking, when you 2 box, usually its on one PC (i.e. using windower) that is also against the TOS.
    Come to think of it, doesnt windower give you an advantage over people playing on PS2/Xbox? TP/MP of the whole PT/Alliance, Distance plugin, and all the other fancy plugins. Those plugins, can well change the tides in a battle..

    Example: stunning Cerb, while not getting in range for AoE.
    Yes theyre all against the TOS, which is relevant to this how? Theyre asking what people think of bought accounts, not what people think of every single last person who breaks the TOS.

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