People who buy accounts - a question regarding them

[Faris]

I 2-box often. On farming in sky/sea, missions, or stuff like Roc. There is nothing wrong with using a friend account.
It is not exactly the same.

According to the employee at Tech Support, That is against their ToS.

Generally speaking, when you 2 box, usually its on one PC (i.e. using windower) that is also against the TOS.
Come to think of it, doesnt windower give you an advantage over people playing on PS2/Xbox? TP/MP of the whole PT/Alliance, Distance plugin, and all the other fancy plugins. Those plugins, can well change the tides in a battle..

Example: stunning Cerb, while not getting in range for AoE.

Yes theyre all against the TOS, which is relevant to this how? Theyre asking what people think of bought accounts, not what people think of every single last person who breaks the TOS.

I derailed from the main topic, my bad. But i was just pointing out to bercus that...nevermind;;

[bercus]

I 2-box often. On farming in sky/sea, missions, or stuff like Roc. There is nothing wrong with using a friend account.
It is not exactly the same.

According to the employee at Tech Support, That is against their ToS.

Generally speaking, when you 2 box, usually its on one PC (i.e. using windower) that is also against the TOS.
Come to think of it, doesnt windower give you an advantage over people playing on PS2/Xbox? TP/MP of the whole PT/Alliance, Distance plugin, and all the other fancy plugins. Those plugins, can well change the tides in a battle..

Example: stunning Cerb, while not getting in range for AoE.

I 2box with PC and PS2 and Notebook.
But yes most people probably 2box with Windower.

[Max™]

Regarding account buying: Yeah, it's bad because you're giving money to RMT's for basically laundering a character, is money laundering bad?

Regarding murder: Some people just need killin', my dad coulda used a bullet or two, but yeah in a situation where it's life and limb, you're not thinking "I'll use my training to disable this opponent". It's blood rushing, your heart thumping in your ears, and a weird heavy feeling in your hands, fight or flight, we have it, because our ancestors who had it survived.

[raginbull]

i think 2 boxing with a bought account is immoral

[Darcatvar]

i think 2 boxing with a bought account is immoral

There is nothing immoral about it, buying an account has nothing to do with morality, 2 boxing has nothing to do with morality. If you want to talk about bad things that may have been done to bring said account into existence then yes some immoral things may have been done.

[Obilisk]

I also know people who were unfairly banned by GMs for using Sprint in Ballista to run away from getting killed,

you can get banned for running away in ballista?! ?

[BRP]

Trading real money for accounts is RMT. And RMT is bad.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Didn't feel like scrolling back to reread posts to find the person, but whoever said that RMTing is SE's problem is a moron or buys gil. It IS our problem. How? What about all the legit fishers? Or the NM campers who made money off Ochiudo's Kotes and Archer's Ring before RMT got there and pushed you out? How did SE respond to this? Making r/ex versions to prevent RMT from hogging all the gil! What a great idea! I guess they think only RMT play this game or something. Those poorly planned reactions have inadvertently screwed legit players out of making money too, in case that wasn't bloody obvious. It was a poor reaction to an already poorly-designed NM system.

RMTing effects you directly. They control the market, the prices on many items. They have made circumventing the game easy. Why camp a Jujitsu Gi when RMT are there swarming it and you can save 2-3h camping hours buying the gil from them, then using the gil to buy it from them off the AH, amirite? Gil buyers just give the gil right back to them too often. It effects you more than you know. If you know a friend who buys gil or there are people in your linkshell that buy gil, they are hurting YOU directly, not indirectly. RMT ruin the game and so do the people that support it.

[Daak]

We have a whole LS that thrives on account/gil buying on Ragnarok, on top of a majority of the UAE players. Everyone who joins just ignores the obvious facts that prove it. Hey Stellar! Nice knowing you Najdi.

Coincidentally, Tricen is in the Shiva version of this LS. Except they take more of a "we don't care" approach instead of just acting blind.

If you can make a post without saying something to the effect that everyone buys gil in my LS and we bot everything or that your THF is the leetist shit in the world. I'll buy you gil. just do it, I dare you

[Turtlesoup]

I bought the account I play on now. I played before for over 3 years, had 4 75 jobs, a 100 craft etc etc. I sold my character over a year ago, and 4-5 months ago I decided I wanted to play again. I heard they opened server transfers and that's the only reason I decided to play again really, I don't want to play as someone else.

I bought a character for pretty cheap that had utter shit gear and hardly any gil on the account (75 thf and whm, wearing af and garbage gear..) I've since leveled up 2 more jobs, and earned way better items. I have never and will never buy gil. The account I got was very cheap, a fraction of what I sold my other character for.


Ask anyone that's been on my server before, I've always looked down on RMT, I almost got my other account banned for MPKing and harassing RMT all the time. I made a strong effort to get rid of RMT for years. I don't really think this supports RMT as no money was given to a Chinese slave worker for doing anything. It was a direct exchange between players, and it had literally NO impact on the economy at all.

I realize that most cases are not the same as mine, but understand that some are. Most of the people that buy accounts are bad players, but not all of them are.

[evilpaul]

A couple things I wanted to comment on...

Exactly, who are they hurting? You? How much has your game suffered because of someone getting a relic, however it was achieved?

I could easily state that Moron A spending 100 mill of bought gil and raising the prices of currency up to 3-5 mill a hundred piece in 2005 and 2006 essentially dicked the wallet for my aegis and essentially put me 50 mill in debt instead of at least with 50 mill to spare, and you know what? I'd be right. Just because you're woefully shortsighted doesn't mean that your actions do not affect those around you, even people you do not interact with.

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

I don't think the 'speed limit' analogy works - people generally don't have the option of severing their relationship with the federal or state government. You can sever your relationship with SE at any time, though; its entirely voluntary.

Mala prohibita, mala en se. Excuse my Latin if it's a little rusty, the legal concept is that the first is 'wrong because it's prohibited' and the second 'wrong in itself'. The first might be eating meat on Friday during Lent or speeding in your awesome car, the second beating people to death for fun or torturing them for President Bush.

Anyway, so far as I can tell SE has made RMT against the TOS for two reasons:
1) So that people can't sue in court over "property" in FFXI.
2) So that CGF don't spend their every waking hour botting fish, crafts, etc, and monopolizing NMs and generally fucking over the legitimate playerbase.

I don't personally care about the first one, that's SE's headache. The second one isn't really affected by individuals buying and selling each other toons on Ebay or whatever.

I guess somebody probably has paid $100 for a Tarutaru BLM who's name looks like it was typed in face->keyboard style, but the assclowns who overcrowd EXP camps are usually English-speaking, normally-named players who don't know how to use the /search function and/or have abysmally low standards for EXP/hr. The RMTs are off with an alliance of BLMs in some remote part of West Altepa Desert only bothering DC Beetles.

The point is, RMT leveled characters that are then sold, to whatever extent that even goes on, aren't a real cockblock to normal players. The ones who were in Ulli's Aery or Castle O 24/7 fucked over legit people.

So, is buying a character RMT? Yes, absolutely. Does it screw up other people's experience in the same way other RMTing does. Nope, not really. Is it against the TOS? Yes, but so is Windower. Which everyone reading this who plays FFXI and doesn't play on a PS2 or Xbox360 uses.

Which makes it a little like the aformentioned speeding in your car. It does break the rules, but not in a way that really bothers other people much necessarily. Strictly speaking, you shouldn't do it. But if you're not fucking over me or people I care about, I don't really give a shit at the end of the day.

[Ryko]

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

... You do understand why there was billions more gil in circulation, right? This one was so ridiculously fucking easy I almost took its seriousness for granite, then I remembered what a total mouthbreather you are and it snapped me right back into reality.

[evilpaul]

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

... You do understand why there was billions more gil in circulation, right? This one was so ridiculously fucking easy I almost took its seriousness for granite, then I remembered what a total mouthbreather you are and it snapped me right back into reality.

What's your dumb ass on about now? People can't buy gil that doesn't exist in the first place. I'd school you further, princess, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

[Charismatic]

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

... You do understand why there was billions more gil in circulation, right? This one was so ridiculously fucking easy I almost took its seriousness for granite, then I remembered what a total mouthbreather you are and it snapped me right back into reality.

What's your dumb ass on about now? People can't buy gil that doesn't exist in the first place. I'd school you further, princess, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the people breaking ToS and using "less than normal" means to CREATE gil.
(pos.exe + clay quest = Gil. Rusty caps with fishbots, etc etc)

[Ryko]

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

... You do understand why there was billions more gil in circulation, right? This one was so ridiculously fucking easy I almost took its seriousness for granite, then I remembered what a total mouthbreather you are and it snapped me right back into reality.

What's your dumb ass on about now? People can't buy gil that doesn't exist in the first place.I'd school you further, son, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

*Facepalm* I really shouldn't have to explain just how much of a failure that last post was. I really really shouldn't. But ok...

For one, it doesn't matter if the gil exists if no one buys it. Gilsellers sitting upon billions on billions of gil doesn't affect shit unless someone goes out there and buys it because team ni-hao is going to sit on it with their thumb up their asses. Why are they sitting on it with their thumbs up their asses? Simple, because they know someone will buy it. You can't make a chicken egg argument like no one would buy it if the supply didn't exist without acknowledging that the supply wouldn't exist if no one expressed an interest in buying it. You can't have one without the other.

Furthermore, money that doesn't circulate is effectively useless, it doesn't drive shit up and in essence all it's doing is taking it out of play until someone buys it. Prices are not driven up significantly or honestly at all because you paid captain kung-pow for an angel skin.

Here comes johnny gilbuyer who just got 100 mill for christmas. Whoopee, technically johnny buying said gil initially doesn't have an effect on the economy until he decides to buy something with it, but there's a rather high probability that he didn't buy 100 mill to stare at it in adoration. So for the sake of argument let's assume johnny is in the 99.9999999999999999999% group that buys gil to spend it. Well crap, johnny just put gil into the economy. Well no problem right? It's just a little gil... but wait, there were hundreds of people who did this. And with their newfound buying power they figure "eh what's a few hundred thousand more" to pick up that item faster than the next guy? But it's ok! That money could have only gone to 2 places.

1) The gilsellers so they can sell it to the same gilbuyers again (oh how wonderful) or...

2) To the rest of the players who get to share the wealth from the crap they sold.

But I'm only giving you these 2 options in an attempt to humor you, it doesn't matter who fucking gets the gil because they realize now that someone has the money and the willingness to pay more unnecessarily for the same old shit and, guess what, prices skyrocket all around.

I'd school you further, son, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

And this part was just precious for about a billion different reasons, but the main one is that it further cemented the also high probability that your mother put ajax and paint chips in your lunchbox as a kid.

[evilpaul]

*Facepalm* I really shouldn't have to explain just how much of a failure that last post was. I really really shouldn't. But ok...

For one, it doesn't matter if the gil exists if no one buys it. Gilsellers sitting upon billions on billions of gil doesn't affect shit unless someone goes out there and buys it because team ni-hao is going to sit on it with their thumb up their asses. Why are they sitting on it with their thumbs up their asses? Simple, because they know someone will buy it. You can't make a chicken egg argument like no one would buy it if the supply didn't exist without acknowledging that the supply wouldn't exist if no one expressed an interest in buying it. You can't have one without the other.

Furthermore, money that doesn't circulate is effectively useless, it doesn't drive shit up and in essence all it's doing is taking it out of play until someone buys it. Prices are not driven up significantly or honestly at all because you paid captain kung-pow for an angel skin.

Here comes johnny gilbuyer who just got 100 mill for christmas. Whoopee, technically johnny buying said gil initially doesn't have an effect on the economy until he decides to buy something with it, but there's a rather high probability that he didn't buy 100 mill to stare at it in adoration. So for the sake of argument let's assume johnny is in the 99.9999999999999999999% group that buys gil to spend it. Well crap, johnny just put gil into the economy. Well no problem right? It's just a little gil... but wait, there were hundreds of people who did this. And with their newfound buying power they figure "eh what's a few hundred thousand more" to pick up that item faster than the next guy? But it's ok! That money could have only gone to 2 places.

1) The gilsellers so they can sell it to the same gilbuyers again (oh how wonderful) or...

2) To the rest of the players who get to share the wealth from the crap they sold.

But I'm only giving you these 2 options in an attempt to humor you, it doesn't matter who fucking gets the gil because they realize now that someone has the money and the willingness to pay more unnecessarily for the same old shit and, guess what, prices skyrocket all around.

Yes, I know you don't know what inflation is.

For one, it doesn't matter how much gil there is if people buy it. If "johnny gilbuyer who just got 100 mill for christmas" goes and spends it, buying from the same RMTs because he was too lazy to earn some gil himself, however ironically, doesn't give the RMTs more gil than they had to start with. johnny at most bid up a few items temporarily. johnny's actions most likely would lead to deflation because of AH taxes on big ticket items.

Second, you have to trade more gil for ancient currency, scorpion harnesses, fire crystals, or whatever else for more gil than you would otherwise if there is more gil, because that makes each individual gil worth less. Supply and demand applies to everything, including money (or in FFXI, gil). It's called money demand.

Which brings us back to what you babbled before:

I could easily state that Moron A spending 100 mill of bought gil and raising the prices of currency up to 3-5 mill a hundred piece in 2005 and 2006 essentially dicked the wallet for my aegis and essentially put me 50 mill in debt instead of at least with 50 mill to spare, and you know what? I'd be right. Just because you're woefully shortsighted doesn't mean that your actions do not affect those around you, even people you do not interact with.

Which was bullshit.

Unless you had tens of millions of gil just sitting on a character while the prices of currency sky rocketed, johnny gilbuyer/Moron A didn't do anything to your Aegis. If you did have tens of millions of gil and didn't notice prices going up, then you're fucking retarded. Either way, it's your own fault.

And as for that part I bolded, besides the irony, you haven't made any mention of how people Ebaying toons has any effect on other people around them. Like nearly all of your posts your "point" amounts to nothing more than a non sequitur derail.

I'd school you further, son, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

And this part was just precious for about a billion different reasons, but the main one is that it further cemented the also high probability that your mother put ajax and paint chips in your lunchbox as a kid.

I'd tell you to stop while you're ahead, but maybe you could stop before you've done your final spiral down the drain?

[Ryko]

For one, it doesn't matter how much gil there is if people buy it. If "johnny gilbuyer who just got 100 mill for christmas" goes and spends it, buying from the same RMTs because he was too lazy to earn some gil himself, however ironically, doesn't give the RMTs more gil than they had to start with. johnny at most bid up a few items temporarily. johnny's actions most likely would lead to deflation because of AH taxes on big ticket items.

I'm gonna make this real easy for you, being contrary to a logical thought process because you don't like the person who is presenting it makes you look stupid. It can never lead to a deflation if it puts more gil back into the active economy than it takes out. My concept of inflation isn't the one that's skewed here, you're the one who fails to grasp the concept that money that sits around doing nothing has no effect on the money that actually changes hands. (and we're talking about in-game, if you throw some fucking bank of america shit at me in response i'm warning you ahead of time that it's irrelevant to the discussion)

Unless you had tens of millions of gil just sitting on a character while the prices of currency sky rocketed, johnny gilbuyer/Moron A didn't do anything to your Aegis.

About 130 actually. Closer to 100 since I had to spend 30 of it on a haubergeon

I'd tell you to stop while you're ahead, but maybe you could stop before you've done your final spiral down the drain?

No, you seriously didn't get it the first time and you continue to get completely windmilled by it.

[Titanss]

I read most of this but skipped a few pages so a random guy buys a war /ridill , drk / kraken which takes no skill to use but would be a great acess to any ls most if not HNMLS leaders would scoop him up in a second maybe i'm wrong but i feel I'm correct on this.

Edit : or shit even Brd/relic horn
Pld/Ageis ...but these take a certain amount of skill to play

[Tomiko]

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

... You do understand why there was billions more gil in circulation, right? This one was so ridiculously fucking easy I almost took its seriousness for granite, then I remembered what a total mouthbreather you are and it snapped me right back into reality.

What's your dumb ass on about now? People can't buy gil that doesn't exist in the first place. I'd school you further, princess, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

Quick, stop now and attempt to safe face!

You're absolutely right! I was leveling Cooking at the same time, and gilbuyers made Wild Onions 40k/stack (9k now), Fire Clusters 15k/ea (1.6ea now), and Dragon Meat 350k/ea (40k now). Oh, right, everything was more expensive then, because there was billions more gil in circulation, so 1 gil was worth less then than 1 gil is worth now.

... You do understand why there was billions more gil in circulation, right? This one was so ridiculously fucking easy I almost took its seriousness for granite, then I remembered what a total mouthbreather you are and it snapped me right back into reality.

What's your dumb ass on about now? People can't buy gil that doesn't exist in the first place. I'd school you further, princess, but I just realized you need to make another thread about somebody in your LS stealing your Colorful Leshy.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the people breaking ToS and using "less than normal" means to CREATE gil.
(pos.exe + clay quest = Gil. Rusty caps with fishbots, etc etc)

Don't forget item duping (then sell to npc to create gil in addition to selling duped items)

[layoneil]

I read most of this but skipped a few pages so a random guy buys a war /ridill , drk / kraken which takes no skill to use but would be a great acess to any ls most if not HNMLS leaders would scoop him up in a second maybe i'm wrong but i feel I'm correct on this.

Edit : or shit even Brd/relic horn
Pld/Ageis ...but these take a certain amount of skill to play

i've seen enough bad Ridill WARs to know for a fact you're wrong.

and lol @ skill and relic horn.