Sea Obi and Para 2 and Slow 2 proct rate.

[Greenjade]

For a 75 RDM and also currently leveling up BLM which Obi should I invest in first? I know I should *at* least try and get all of them but I don't do much sea farming as is. Now my second question, is it noticeable when someone casts Para and Slow 2 on a mob? I can't really see much of a difference and I'm to embarrassed to ask the people I party with. I only have 1 point in both and do plan on capping both of them but not sure if it would be worth it considering I'm not into the HNM scene.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

[chapstick]

I wouldn't say any obi's are necessary for debuffing.

[bebeci]

Slow/Para/Blind depend on 2 things.
Enfeebling skill = whether mob will endure the full length of the debuff (1/2 time, 1/4 time, etc)
MND/INT = More MND/INT should increase the proc of these spells.

Throw in lolMagicAccuracy, if you will.

That being said, I don't think Sea obi's work.

[Isiolia]

For a 75 RDM and also currently leveling up BLM which Obi should I invest in first? I know I should *at* least try and get all of them but I don't do much sea farming as is.

If you do Dynamis and/or Limbus on a regular basis, I would definitely consider the Light and Dark obis depending on what you do. Dynamis and Apollyon have constant double-dark weather. Anrin Obi is then really nice for Drain/Aspir and such. Sleep accuracy as well I suppose, but I never macro it for that and have no trouble, so meh.

Light is very good for Temenos if you are healing.

Otherwise I would focus on ones you'd want for BLM nuking. Likely Ice and Thunder. Of course, keep in mind that they're quite situational, though they should be much more attractive in a few months when you start having Scholars that could party with your BLM and give you appropriate weather.

For general enfeebling, not worth it. They're accuracy only, and accuracy outside of potency gear is not usually that big a concern for a decent geared/merited RDM. The few things that would be a pain, well, unless you start doing HNM you won't be dealing with anyway...and we have enough stuff to carry anyway.

Now my second question, is it noticeable when someone casts Para and Slow 2 on a mob? I can't really see much of a difference and I'm to embarrassed to ask the people I party with. I only have 1 point in both and do plan on capping both of them but not sure if it would be worth it considering I'm not into the HNM scene.

Slow II is much better than Slow. Testing here http://releenaseraph.livejournal.com/profile among others. It's definitely the best tier II enfeeble and worth putting multiple levels in. Having a nice Slow II is worth it even if you're duoing/trioing stuff.

Para II...eh...I have it at level 2 (level 2 Slow II and Phalanx II as well). I am not impressed. It -can- be nicer I suppose, but the thing is that it's random. You could get nothing out of it. Or, due to how random it is, Para I may be just as good. Only, Para II has a much higher MP cost.

I would suggest going for Phalanx II if you regularly do things with a blood tank (Dynamis, early Salvage, etc).

[SephYuyX]

Id think the obis would effect the resist, would sort of act like macc. I have dark obi on my sleep macro just for the hell of it in either case, it's not like they hurt. Unless they take up a slot with alot of int/mnd, then it's situational.

In terms of what obis your should get.. I dont think RDM really NEED obi's, theyre more of a nice bonus, but then again im not a RDM. In terms of BLM, get thunder and ice first, then fire if you want, rest of them you can get when you want, if ever. Theyre nice if you choose to unlock all the AMII, instead of maxing 2. I went Thunder > Ice > Dark > Light > Fire > etc. Light and Dark are nice for limbus and dynamis, and the random weather that pops up.

Id say for you get relaxing earring if you havent already gotten it, and then Light/Dark or Thunder/Ice, depending if you mainly focus on drain/aspir and healing (if you ever do limbus or dynamis) or nuking.

[Greenjade]

I'd love to get the earring but the organ farming for that from what I've heard is really painful. I probably won't attempt that till my BLM is at 75. And the light and dark obi does make a lot of sense since I do Dynamis and Limbus regularly.

Merit wise, I'm focusing on capping Enfeebling and Convert first. Then I'll figure out which of the Tier II spells I'd like to do. I've gotten some votes on capping Slow II and putting the rest in Phalanx II.

And thanks for the pointers! :D

[SephYuyX]

You need 5 tissue for the earring, and for all the other obis, you need 3 of that same tissue as well. The tissue is the hardest thing to get, but by the time you put effort into getting 1 obi (3 tissue + lots of organs) you could have 5 tissue for the earring.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

I'll mirror others on this one. Anrin for drain/aspir in dynamis and apollyon. And since you said your blm is rising, Rairin Obi would be worth it if you spend time in DA. Other than that, shit is really situational and might not be worth the inventory space.

As for the title, I haven't seen any evidence supporting that an obi would increase para proc rates and slow %'s. Maybe if you had a Suirin Obi on ice day for paralyze (or obi for slow on earthsday), who knows. But considering how little that happens I'm not sure if it would be worth owning.

[Septimus]

I do not believe that it is worth it to lose out on 5 MND for the chance at additional accuracy for 3 hours of the day.

And Paralyze II is strange. Sometimes it really annoys me, but then I'll hit the sweet spot on Fafnir or Proto-Ultima and it will proc like mad and everyone will be in total awe. (Not to mention the occasional paralyzed pretifiga from Ouryu.)

[Greenjade]

You need 5 tissue for the earring, and for all the other obis, you need 3 of that same tissue as well. The tissue is the hardest thing to get, but by the time you put effort into getting 1 obi (3 tissue + lots of organs) you could have 5 tissue for the earring.

True, but I've heard that Euvhi Organs have a slightly lower drop rate then the other organs. And like all things in Sea, only the HQ version have a better chance of dropping the necessary organs.

I'm planning on duoing with a 75 MNK who is working on his Flame Gorget and only needs 4 Phuabo Organ. So I figured I'll get the organs I need for an Obi while we farm his.

[Starr]

No slow: 30 attacks
Slow I: 23 attacks (23% attack speed reduction)
Slow II Lv1: 22 attacks (26% attack speed reduction)
Slow II Lv2: 22 attacks (26% attack speed reduction)

So slow 2 is only 3% more slow? Does it have a noticeable increase in magic accuracy over Slow 1?
I think these are base MND casts because I read previously Slow2 caps at 30%, right?

[ringthree]

I do not believe that it is worth it to lose out on 5 MND for the chance at additional accuracy for 3 hours of the day.

And Paralyze II is strange. Sometimes it really annoys me, but then I'll hit the sweet spot on Fafnir or Proto-Ultima and it will proc like mad and everyone will be in total awe. (Not to mention the occasional paralyzed pretifiga from Ouryu.)

And then Scholar steps in giving you Ice Weather effect... very interesting.

[Septimus]

I do not believe that it is worth it to lose out on 5 MND for the chance at additional accuracy for 3 hours of the day.

And Paralyze II is strange. Sometimes it really annoys me, but then I'll hit the sweet spot on Fafnir or Proto-Ultima and it will proc like mad and everyone will be in total awe. (Not to mention the occasional paralyzed pretifiga from Ouryu.)

And then Scholar steps in giving you Ice Weather effect... very interesting.

Anything that I cannot land paralyze II or slow II on normally won't be helped with the weather effect.

[Isiolia]

No slow: 30 attacks
Slow I: 23 attacks (23% attack speed reduction)
Slow II Lv1: 22 attacks (26% attack speed reduction)
Slow II Lv2: 22 attacks (26% attack speed reduction)

So slow 2 is only 3% more slow? Does it have a noticeable increase in magic accuracy over Slow 1?
I think these are base MND casts because I read previously Slow2 caps at 30%, right?

Not exactly. You're looking at the real-world testing. If you look at other tests done, Slow II is much higher at the same MND difference than Slow is. With Ballista and Utsu timers and such.

It's explained right under the results you quoted.

Some people might look at these results and wonder if they can possibly be right. Remember, slow increases delay*, but this is not the same thing as decreasing the number of attacks, which is what I'm interested in. Carnage Elegy has 50% potency, and increases 100 delay to 150. In 300 delay such a monster would attack 3 times without elegy, and 2 times with elegy, or a 33% attack speed reduction.

A simple math check also confirms that these results are reasonable. 180 seconds = 10,800 delay / 30 attacks = 360 delay for a Tiny Mandragora. With Slow I, delay becomes 1.30 * 360 = 480. 10,800 / 480 = 22.5 attacks. Hojo Ni should yield ~25 attacks, for reference.

Also remember that the test was on Tiny Mandragoras. Slow and Slow II both get to a similar point of diminished returns in the 3x% slow range. On those mobs, you'd actually be able to hit that. Are you going to get 80, 90, 100+ MND over endgame targets? Far less likely.

That's where Slow II shines. At 0 MND difference it's somewhere around 8-10% more slow than Slow is. Looking at the Ballista results, you'll get similar results with 4 MND on Slow II Lv.2 as you will with 50 MND on Slow.
If we were able to stack up 200-300 MND and cap out potency on anything then Slow II would be less useful. But we can't.

To me, the real world testing is just a reminder to take extreme setups with a grain of salt. If level II to level III makes little or no difference in end-results, then paying tens of millions of gil for an extra 3-4 in a setup is probably not going to be much more than a placebo either.

[Starr]

At 0 MND difference it's somewhere around 8-10% more slow than Slow is.

Thanks, that was what I was looking for.
Thinking 1x Dia 3, 2x Phalanx II and either 3x Slow 2 or 2x Slow II and 1x Para II, is it worth it getting 1 in it or is the extra Magic Accuracy on 3/3 better?

[Ambir]

At 0 MND difference it's somewhere around 8-10% more slow than Slow is.

Thanks, that was what I was looking for.
Thinking 1x Dia 3, 2x Phalanx II and either 3x Slow 2 or 2x Slow II and 1x Para II, is it worth it getting 1 in it or is the extra Magic Accuracy on 3/3 better?

That 8-10% is for 3 merits. Each merit seems to add about 3% to both the effect and the cap (as well as increasing the accuracy), so if you only put 2 merits in you'll get a slightly weaker Slow.

Reminds me I need to go out and confirm cap for Slow II with 3 merits...

[Isiolia]

At 0 MND difference it's somewhere around 8-10% more slow than Slow is.

Thanks, that was what I was looking for.
Thinking 1x Dia 3, 2x Phalanx II and either 3x Slow 2 or 2x Slow II and 1x Para II, is it worth it getting 1 in it or is the extra Magic Accuracy on 3/3 better?

That 8-10% is for 3 merits. Each merit seems to add about 3% to both the effect and the cap (as well as increasing the accuracy), so if you only put 2 merits in you'll get a slightly weaker Slow.

Reminds me I need to go out and confirm cap for Slow II with 3 merits...

Actually, the results on the journal show 13% higher for lv. 3, lv. 2 is a bit more vague as the 65s recast is the 21-22% range versus the 12% for Slow. So while you likely won't see 10% with one upgrade, it seems in range with lv. 2.

[Ambir]

At 0 MND difference it's somewhere around 8-10% more slow than Slow is.

Thanks, that was what I was looking for.
Thinking 1x Dia 3, 2x Phalanx II and either 3x Slow 2 or 2x Slow II and 1x Para II, is it worth it getting 1 in it or is the extra Magic Accuracy on 3/3 better?

That 8-10% is for 3 merits. Each merit seems to add about 3% to both the effect and the cap (as well as increasing the accuracy), so if you only put 2 merits in you'll get a slightly weaker Slow.

Reminds me I need to go out and confirm cap for Slow II with 3 merits...

Actually, the results on the journal show 13% higher for lv. 3, lv. 2 is a bit more vague as the 65s recast is the 21-22% range versus the 12% for Slow. So while you likely won't see 10% with one upgrade, it seems in range with lv. 2.

One of the problems with using recast to check Slow % is that the 1% slow is only a fraction of a second on recast. The error in actually measuring the recast (and having the game report recast increases the error, as the measurement changes due to lag) can be pretty significant.

I've seen more accurate numbers from JP sites where they've measured the time for mobs to perform 20 attacks. In these, your measuring error is less significant, and tests I've done have "seemed" to show caps of 30%, 33% and 36% for slow / slow II 1 merit /slow II 2 merits, with that 3% difference being fairly constant at values below the cap as well.

[Isiolia]

One of the problems with using recast to check Slow % is that the 1% slow is only a fraction of a second on recast. The error in actually measuring the recast (and having the game report recast increases the error, as the measurement changes due to lag) can be pretty significant.

I've seen more accurate numbers from JP sites where they've measured the time for mobs to perform 20 attacks. In these, your measuring error is less significant, and tests I've done have "seemed" to show caps of 30%, 33% and 36% for slow / slow II 1 merit /slow II 2 merits, with that 3% difference being fairly constant at values below the cap as well.

Yeah, the results in the journal post frequently have two percent values for a given recast number. I agree, I've seen the 3% difference between the levels of Slow II at least. At best, from what I've seen, you'd be looking at maybe 7% difference at the same MND between Slow and Slow II lv. 1 (so then 10% at lv. 2, 13% at lv. 3).
While it might cap out closer, I'm looking at it more at the same MND difference. Slow II is far more feasible to get 25%+ Slow out of on higher level mobs.

[Ambir]

One of the problems with using recast to check Slow % is that the 1% slow is only a fraction of a second on recast. The error in actually measuring the recast (and having the game report recast increases the error, as the measurement changes due to lag) can be pretty significant.

I've seen more accurate numbers from JP sites where they've measured the time for mobs to perform 20 attacks. In these, your measuring error is less significant, and tests I've done have "seemed" to show caps of 30%, 33% and 36% for slow / slow II 1 merit /slow II 2 merits, with that 3% difference being fairly constant at values below the cap as well.

Yeah, the results in the journal post frequently have two percent values for a given recast number. I agree, I've seen the 3% difference between the levels of Slow II at least. At best, from what I've seen, you'd be looking at maybe 7% difference at the same MND between Slow and Slow II lv. 1 (so then 10% at lv. 2, 13% at lv. 3).
While it might cap out closer, I'm looking at it more at the same MND difference. Slow II is far more feasible to get 25%+ Slow out of on higher level mobs.

By testing the time a mob takes for 20 swings, it reduces that error quite a bit (although 1% is still less than a second), and by testing both Slow and Slow II on the same mob with the same gear it seems that each level of slow II adds 3% slow. The amount slowed curves seem to follow each other so that if Slow is 14% then Slow II (1merit) is 17% and Slow II (2merit) is 20%. Still haven't got around to testing slow II (3 merits). Caps seem to be Slow 30%, Slow II (1 merit) 33% and Slow II (2 merits) ~36% too, with all caps being reached a ~+81MND.