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  1. #21
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Rocl Montaigne
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRP
    Very nice and I thank you for your effort. The units for hate will need a name though.
    I nominate "Kaekos"

    Also, I could of sworn there was some very simple tests indicating claiming a monster awards the claimer some sort of "bonus" hate?

  2. #22
    E. Body
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Good reading, but page 3 asks me to log in? Is that because page 3 doesn't exist yet or is set to private?

  3. #23
    Tom Wilson will never be good.
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Need to know more about Flash, PLD /JAs, Stun, NIN Magic, etc and their Hate values and type of hate! Great job though.

  4. #24
    D. Ring
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    Siren

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Impeccably well written and reasoned, thanks for sharing. The basic tests are so simple it's one of those things you wonder why no one thought of it before. The prospect of assigning all magic and abilities with a corresponding amount of enmity is tantalizing. The fact that the enmity cap is literally over 9000 is a little insufferable .

  5. #25
    Ridill
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priran
    Quote Originally Posted by nekoshoonen
    Corect me if I'm wrong, but if Ashira cast cure for 0 320 times and blind 1 time wouldn't dispel have 319 Units of ND hate? that is assuming blind is 1 unit of ND hate which I'm not exactly sure where this last part was proved...
    All actions have at least 1 constant unit of hate associated with them, so if it took 321 actions to overtake Dispel's constant hate, then 320 would equal it.

    Which brings up something that would probably be answered if I had the attention span to read this entire thing: does the first action performed on a mob get a hate bonus? What about aggro?
    Yes

    4) The act of pulling (first action) causes an enmity gain for the puller.
    It adds a bonus of __ units of hate.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRP
    Very nice and I thank you for your effort. The units for hate will need a name though.
    Ounces of hate? Pounds of hate. Inches of hate. Hmm...

    Ilms of hate? Yalms of hate. Ponz of hate. Hmm...

    VEU (Vanadielian Enmity Units)? Joules of hate. Wutts of hate. Hmm...

    HP (Hate Power)?

    Could just simply call it enmity. "It's ok, go ahead and MB, I got this. Just don't pull more than 487 enmity and we'll be fine."

  6. #26
    Sea Torques
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Doesn't evading cause hate, which makes the "Hit for 0" test fucked because the person is getting additional hate for evading? If yes, then the "Hit for 0" test would be pretty fuckin hard to test <_<.

  7. #27
    Ridill
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhan
    Doesn't evading cause hate, which makes the "Hit for 0" test fucked because the person is getting additional hate for evading? If yes, then the "Hit for 0" test would be pretty fuckin hard to test <_<.
    Utsusemi sheds hate, but evading or getting hit for 0 does not.

  8. #28

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhan
    Doesn't evading cause hate, which makes the "Hit for 0" test fucked because the person is getting additional hate for evading? If yes, then the "Hit for 0" test would be pretty fuckin hard to test <_<.
    Evades do not cause hate.

  9. #29
    Ashira
    Guest

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Yes, we have quantities for Stun, Flash, Provoke, etc, those are coming in third post, I believe. Believe me, I remember doing those tests.

    "ok ashi, flash"
    "ok, now i dispel"
    "ok, i'm dispelling again"
    "ok, now cure for 0"
    "again"
    "keep going"
    something to that extent. ;D

    lol @ rocl, with the 'kaekos'... cuz kaeko was joking last night, threatening to name one after me.


    to zhan: evading doesn't cause hate, the idea behind evade tanking is that you don't get hit so you don't *lose* hate.

  10. #30

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    can anyone else see persistent enmity counter windower addons spawning from this?

  11. #31
    Ridill
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii
    can anyone else see persistent enmity counter windower addons spawning from this?
    Not unless it /checks everyone to see how much +/- enmity gear everyone has to properly adjust the amounts and decay rates. And it has to /check the moment the spell is cast to account for gear swaps.

    But it would be neat.

    As for a unit of hate, we should nominate someone the most notoriously hated BG forum troll of all time, and establish that name as 1000 units of hate, with the basic unit being a milli-(troll's name).

  12. #32
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Millihirronimus? Millinynja? Millikrye? How about Rukenshins? I mean we all know he's the best tank alive, right? He's never gonna lose hate, remember? And the lesser unit of hate could be a Rykoshet. Cause you know lolTeamGallant!

    PS: I am still in favour of Kaekos.

  13. #33
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    I'm sure most of you already saw this but: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Enmity_Numbers

    And I guess they use same base enmity unit since they pretend the cap to be 10k.

  14. #34
    Ridill
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl
    Millihirronimus? Millinynja? Millikrye? How about Rukenshins? I mean we all know he's the best tank alive, right? He's never gonna lose hate, remember? And the lesser unit of hate could be a Rykoshet. Cause you know lolTeamGallant!

    PS: I am still in favour of Kaekos.
    How about:

    1 Ashira = base unit of hate
    12 Ashiras = 1 Kaeko
    5280 Kaekos = 1 Nynja (or whoever)

  15. #35
    Ashira
    Guest

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabz
    I'm sure most of you already saw this but: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Enmity_Numbers

    And I guess they use same base enmity unit since they pretend the cap to be 10k.

    Yeah, came across that like, 2 days ago I think, was interesting cuz it never got talked about here at all, which is why Kae thought he needed to do these tests.

    What's different is that we're offering a lot more information and have all our support documentation for it, and seem to have a lot more on controls for our tests.

  16. #36
    Banned.

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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    I'd like to see some tests with Enmity gear... we could just go with "Enmity" as units really if it's a solid bonus equal to the number or % based.

  17. #37
    Relic Shield
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    Ferien Terzo
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamsin
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl
    Millihirronimus? Millinynja? Millikrye? How about Rukenshins? I mean we all know he's the best tank alive, right? He's never gonna lose hate, remember? And the lesser unit of hate could be a Rykoshet. Cause you know lolTeamGallant!

    PS: I am still in favour of Kaekos.
    How about:

    1 Ashira = base unit of hate
    12 Ashiras = 1 Kaeko
    5280 Kaekos = 1 Nynja (or whoever)
    It needs to be something long, but easily abbreviated...Points of indubitably defined hate?

  18. #38

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Hey, I'd just like to commend the work you guys did. Awesome to see such strict methodology and actual results! Please do continue, it's extremely interesting stuff.

  19. #39

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashira
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabz
    I'm sure most of you already saw this but: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Enmity_Numbers

    And I guess they use same base enmity unit since they pretend the cap to be 10k.

    Yeah, came across that like, 2 days ago I think, was interesting cuz it never got talked about here at all, which is why Kae thought he needed to do these tests.

    What's different is that we're offering a lot more information and have all our support documentation for it, and seem to have a lot more on controls for our tests.
    The fraudopedia article was probably just ripped wholesale from a JP testing blog that used a similar methodology to you and Kaeko. Of course, lacking proper documentation and citations makes the fraudopedia article next to worthless.

  20. #40
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Wasn't trying to give wiki credit, I assumed it was a translation of jp wiki, and always wondered if it could be trusted or not, it's good to see some testing/evidence. Just thought it was interesting to compare results.

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