Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Khamsin]

I prefer millinazi. Dispel gives 320 millinazis of hate. That way, something with a lot of hate (1000) is equivalent to 1 nazi. The hate cap would then be approximately 10 nazis.

[Dezzimal]

Threat doesn't sound right, enmity is a much better word for it

Except enmity is also a stat that you can get on gear. INC Confusion?

[Khamsin]

Threat doesn't sound right, enmity is a much better word for it

Except enmity is also a stat that you can get on gear. INC Confusion?

STR is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.
Attack is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.
Evasion skill is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear (e.g. evasion torque or evasion earring).
Ranged Accuracy is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.

How is it confusing?

[Ferien]

Because Enmity increases the units of hate you produce, just as STR or Attack increase the damage you deal and Accuracy increases your hit percentage.

Accuracy : Hit% :: Attack : Damage :: Enmity : Nazis

That aside, there are so many new tests to be done now... Must know whether volatile hate decays at a steady rate or if it varies based on other factors (enmity, the specific ability, LOLCHR!). Need people on Hades willing to waste hours playing with this.

[fussel]

To disable AV's two-hours, you have to achieve exactly 7777 cumulative enmity.

just kidding...

Great work!

[Delekii]

Spells we've tested since:

Exuviation: 640CE
3rd party pull, we both opened with a dispel (since exuv is self target)
BLU cast exuv, on BLU
BLM/RDM cast 2*dispel, hate on BLM
BLU cast cure1, hate on BLU
Exuviation hate is fixed like cure5, it doesn't matter if it cures the target (yourself or party member during diffusion)

Saline Coat: 1CE
3rd party pull, we both opened with dispel
BLU casts saline coat, hate on BLU
after 5 seconds or so, BLM casts Cure 1, hate on BLM
BLU cure, hate on BLU

Jettatura: 180CE
3rd party pull
BLU Jettatura > BLU
BLM Sleepga > BLM
BLU Cure1 > BLU
BLM Cure1 > BLM

Actinic Burst: we only got a range, more than 180 but less than 320 (people needed to sleep)

Diffusion itself is 1CE (both dispel > BLU Diffusion > BLM Cure1, hate on BLM)
It directly multiplies the hate of the spell by the number of people it hits.
3rd party pull, we both dispel
BLU diffusion > BLM Cure1 (equal) > BLU Exuviation hits 3 targets
BLM casts Dispel * 6 (1920) > BLM
BLU Cure1 > BLU

Personally, I vote for CE and VE

edit: one other interesting thing - /healing does not add CE. We were sitting at a disparity of 1 (BLU 1CE over BLM). I sat, and the mob would continuously switch between me and him, every "tick" it would face me, and turn back almost instantly. This means that resting gives VE on a tick per tick basis, and the VE gained from healing dissipates before the next tick. It also means that healing does not give CE, since if it did I would overtake him and the hate would stay on me.

edit edit: more testing on the healing enmity. Since we now know that healing has no CE, it should be possible to reach 0 TE again. Party member pulls mob (Young quadav) with a melee attack. I /heal for a couple of ticks. He warps. Mob stays on me, despite zero CE and zero VE. So once you are on a mob's hate list, you cannot get off it, even with 0 total enmity.

[Rocl]

CE = Kaeko
VE = Payu
duh

[Tomiko]

Very nice testing. =D>

Great LJ as well. I'm currently reading the Requiem of Sin update you did since I recently started trioing it with a Pld and Blm.

[Lordwafik]

In regards to your 0 enmity but action on mob still = hate test Delekii, care to test one more thing?

See if you still have hate if you go to the 0 hate point, then use a Sneak > Deodorizer > Invis and wait a bit for those to go down ( items aren't cumulative enmity right?) , then have friend warp and see if monster is still agressive.

[suji]

This is pretty much the most interesting FFXI-related stuff to come up since the crit testing. Thanks!

ps, Thief Knife with X's Knife offhand makes baby jesus cry

[Churchill]

Very good job, makes getting a little more MP as a NIN/DRK for those Zerg-ish type fights have a more well defined purpose.

[Ishido]

Threat is what its called in this other MMO.

Threat per second (TPS)
Threat cap

They all sound decent. I'm kind of amazed it took this long for numbers to surface.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

I still find this pretty interesting even after I've quit though, I can easily see a Threat Meter addon for windower being created once enough testing is done to quantify most abilities and damage. As for +/- enmity gear, it's easy enough to not include those things and just make people think about where they would be depending on their gear.

Next question I have is about the values of -threat from Jump, and what type of hate they affect.

This should be very significant, especially for tanks optimizing TPS through the priority or certain abilities.

[TB]

That's pretty hot shit Kae. And interesting to see your numbers really reflecting the actual feeling I have about enmity.

[Dezzimal]

STR is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.
Attack is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.
Evasion skill is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear (e.g. evasion torque or evasion earring).
Ranged Accuracy is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.

How is it confusing?

Because all of those are easy to understand relationships, you get accuracy on gear, and your accuracy goes up. When you equip +Enmity gear your threat versus a mob doesn't automatically go up. Now I didn't read all of that LJ but my assumption is that +Enmity increases the amount of threat gained per action performed.

[Zeratu]

STR is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.
Attack is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.
Evasion skill is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear (e.g. evasion torque or evasion earring).
Ranged Accuracy is a stat, and also a stat you can get on gear.

How is it confusing?

Because all of those are easy to understand relationships, you get accuracy on gear, and your accuracy goes up. When you equip +Enmity gear your threat versus a mob doesn't automatically go up. Now I didn't read all of that LJ but my assumption is that +Enmity increases the amount of threat gained per action performed.

But in order for your accuracy to go up, you have to hit something(perform a melee action on it), same goes with +/-Enmity, you have to perform an action on a mob for it to be in effect.

[Dezzimal]

Name it whatever you want I really don't care any more, but the relationship between STR on your gear and STR on the character screen is not even on the same page as +-Enmity and Threat vs. a Mob. This is like calling Agility your Dodge Chance. Kinda stupid.

[Seid]

edit edit: more testing on the healing enmity. Since we now know that healing has no CE, it should be possible to reach 0 TE again. Party member pulls mob (Young quadav) with a melee attack. I /heal for a couple of ticks. He warps. Mob stays on me, despite zero CE and zero VE. So once you are on a mob's hate list, you cannot get off it, even with 0 total enmity.

Pretty interesting and explains why Trick Attack does not take you out off the hate list if you have done something to the mob. Example being using SA/TA/Hide/WS on something like Tiamat and you haven't done anything else to the mob, if you disengage before you have a regular melee swing after WSing, you will stay out off the hate list... and if you dont disengage and get a melee swing in, then you have to log hate to get off the list and to have SA/TA/Hide work again... TA transfers your emnity to the tank as described, but doesn't take you off the hate list once you're there.

[Churchill]

Logging doesn't remove hate etc.

[Seid]

Well meant logging to a mule or all the way out, my bad on the wording.

[Misin]

maybe i missed something, but why a Cure 1 for 25hp = 25?, shouldnt it b 1+25= 26?, and if this is right, then a cure 1 for 0hp = cure 1 for 1 hp? (im sure u tested this already, just asking)