Conserve MP VS Auto refresh test

[LinktheDeme]

Anyone know the URL for the test located? I remember there being excessive testing done on this by someone

[Valena]

Can't tell you the URL, but basically the testing is :

Conserve MP has a 25% activation rate (without any Conserve mp+ gear). It retains an integrer between 1/16 and 8/16 of your spell cost. Basically the end result is a constant 7.03% mp conservation, assuming an infinity of casts.
Auto-refresh being a 1mp/tick ability, grants you, if I'm not mistaken, 20 mp/minutes.

So roughly, you could say Conserve MP wins over Auto-refresh if you are spending more than 300 MP per minute.

Please note that Conserve MP enhancing gear add to the probability of the base activation percent (the 25%), which is very good, because that percent rate is pretty low. For example, equipping Magnetic earring (Conserve MP+5) and Goliard Body (Conserve MP+5) and you've got a 35% activation rate, same probability of retaining integrers, for a final of 9.8% MP saving.


Side note :
for /healing purposes, since the 1st healing tick comes later than the others, it is best to wear auto-refresh Body, then swap in an Errant houpplelande, after, say a /wait 17. This, of course, if like me, you are not a lucky possessor of full Yigit Set

[Eldelphia]

On a related note for others reading this, before making a judgement on for example (comes up all the time for WHMs) /blm or /smn you should also consider the sorts of circumstances in which you find yourself. I have a Magnetic earring and my default sub is /BLM however for some situations I always pick /SMN even though on some levels I’m sure it isn’t as efficient in pure MP terms.

Dynamis is one situation for me (YMMV) where I messed around with both subs and found /BLM lacking. We have enough sleepers/enfeeblers but we’re low on healing. So I am there purely as a buff/cure/raise bot. Because of the way our group does things for me I gain far more benefit from constantly having a small amount of MP ticking back than the MP I have lasting slightly longer. It is not easy to predict when a healing crisis will hit and when you will lose your refresh from BRD/RDM. So unlike xp it is not always easy to predict that you will be able to rest at regular intervals. Yes, you can alternate healing duties but our dyna shell runs with 2 WHMs, there are times when both have to be up and spamming. We both have devotion too which means we can last a considerable time with no ‘fresh support at all. The problem with /BLM is when you’re out of MP; there is nothing you can do but rest. I find I hardly ever get to that point with /SMN and I found this out before I obtained a magnetic earring and tested again once I had it.

Fights you can control well, I don’t think it matters much which way you go but whenever there is a potential for chaos breaking out I find a large MP pool with /SMN = ftw. I still prefer /BLM for daily stuff – but then WHM travel options ftw!

Just, whatever you do, don’t get tempted into /RDM… I occasionally use it for things and it’s like crack for cures. Fastest caster in the West! (Cure cast merits, fast cast gear and clogs + /RDM = scarily addictive).

Be interested to see the thread though.

[Nirokun!]

not having ballad/refresh hurts both subs equally

if you're using more than (some math amount, go math people) mp, /blm is better
if you're running around a lot (thus not casting anything), /smn can shine in the time where autorefresh would be active, and conserve mp wouldnt be doing anything.

[VZX]

This?
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... 1203841828

[Tajin]

Just, whatever you do, don’t get tempted into /RDM… I occasionally use it for things and it’s like crack for cures. Fastest caster in the West! (Cure cast merits, fast cast gear and clogs + /RDM = scarily addictive).

I have only found /RDM useful for Lamia 13 assault and Operation: Snake Eyes.

[Amele]

as far as I know, there was never a 'versus' test done; just testing to get the properties of conserve mp and then math (like below) to determine which is better when.

25% activation rate (base) * avg(1/16->8/16) = .0703

20mp/min / .0703 = 284.4

so 285 is the inflection point. above 285, conserve mp will 'recover' more mp, below 285, auto-refresh will.

285 is reasonable for one minute of casting, the issue that comes up is sustainability:

a typical white mage will have ~1000mp and with refresh + ballad + refresh body (we'll ignore sanction refresh) you recover 140mp/min. so you're running with a deficit of 285 * .93 - 140 = 125 mp.

to maintain that pace indefinitely you'd need to rest at least 30 seconds of every minute (half the time) or for approximately 2~minutes of every 10. (if uninterrupted) and varying rates in between.


if for some reason you have a magnetic for whm/blm but don't wear it for whm/smn, the amount you need to spend drops drastically (237) but jumps back up to 285 (conserve mp gains are virtually linear) if you wear the magnetic on whm/smn as well.

[Suiram]

I can't recall seeing any conserve MP tests either, only threads with people making passing reference to them, but did they demonstrate that the portion of MP saved (1/16, 2/16, ..., 7/16, 8/16) is uniform when it activates, both for base activation rate from job trait, as well as one modified by gear?

[Amele]

short answer is yes; one of the tests performed is at the link that VZX posted. it links to another test with more data.


it's relatively simple to retest, although I would recommend doing more than ~100 checks to verify amount. I would, likewise, use a larger mp cost spell. (you can do this fairly quickly with a 75 whm casting reraises and a nearby moghouse)

[Ambir]

as far as I know, there was never a 'versus' test done; just testing to get the properties of conserve mp and then math (like below) to determine which is better when.

25% activation rate (base) * avg(1/16->8/16) = .0703

20mp/min / .0703 = 284.4

so 285 is the inflection point. above 285, conserve mp will 'recover' more mp, below 285, auto-refresh will.

285 is reasonable for one minute of casting, the issue that comes up is sustainability:

a typical white mage will have ~1000mp and with refresh + ballad + refresh body (we'll ignore sanction refresh) you recover 140mp/min. so you're running with a deficit of 285 * .93 - 140 = 125 mp.

to maintain that pace indefinitely you'd need to rest at least 30 seconds of every minute (half the time) or for approximately 2~minutes of every 10. (if uninterrupted) and varying rates in between.


if for some reason you have a magnetic for whm/blm but don't wear it for whm/smn, the amount you need to spend drops drastically (237) but jumps back up to 285 (conserve mp gains are virtually linear) if you wear the magnetic on whm/smn as well.

The amount of time you need to rest really depends on job. A RDM for example can (with a BRD in party) regenerate 2600MP/10min without resting at all, which can make /BLM viable from a MP point of view (with minimal rest). Situations where that amount of MP are required though are another question...

[Amele]

was looking at it specifically from a whm/x perspective (stated in my post)

redmage has no issue maintaining a higher rate of casting, primarily because they get approximately 100mp/min from convert that no other job gets. (which is why redmages generally don't choose subs based on mp conservation.)

[souleman]

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... 620;num=33