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  1. #41
    Sea Torques
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Avé
    Quote Originally Posted by Toksyuryel
    Furthermore I am not entirely convinced that at the time of his death, he actually wanted to die. The game only provides that "However, the arrival of death implacable / brought an end to the God of Twilight." which implies that he didn't go emo and want to die. The next stanza "Aglow with the essence of love eternal, / the Dawn Goddess sought to restore the / lost divinity."
    The way I figured it was that Promathia had nothing to do and was fading away because of the empty-less Ziliart. So Altana gave Promathia a bigger part in life by putting some of his emptiness inside everyone, thus the Ziliart became mortal.

    3) Emptiness isn't related to Promathia. That's a misconception. The "Emptiness" always existed around the Sentient Crystal, Promathia was just one of the first beings to be "destroyed" (read: absorbed) by it. The light of the Sentient Crystal used to keep it at bay, but when it split, it was no longer capable of doing so.
    Don't they call the Emptiness 'The will of Promathia'? I always thought it meant that the emptiness was Promathia's way of making sure that we'll all die eventually.

    I may be wrong, there is a lot of CoP that just went way over my head.
    The problem with CoP was trying to seperate the nonsense that the NPCs in present day believe and the truth behind the matter. Many people refer to Emptiness as the will of Promathia or his curse. But they're not right; their opinions are predicated off of false knowledge.

    Emptiness can best be described by the verses of the Ley of Immortals.



    "It all began with a stone, or so the legend says.

    In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness.

    Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods.

    Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss until, after a time, the gods fell into slumber.

    That world was called Vana’diel.

    Our world, Vana’diel."


    Notice "banished the darkness." Later in CoP that verse is shown with "darkness" replaced by "emptiness." Thus Emptiness has always existed even when only the Sentient Crystal (which is the original of all things aside from Emptiness) existed.

  2. #42
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Tertiary Question:

    What about the "crag" in altepa?

    There is a telepoint there, and with on one of the zilart missions you certainly go inside what appears to be the control room of a crag.

    How does this all fit in?

  3. #43
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by tyraravenlocke
    Tertiary Question:

    What about the "crag" in altepa?

    There is a telepoint there, and with on one of the zilart missions you certainly go inside what appears to be the control room of a crag.

    How does this all fit in?
    If you look at the key item descriptions for the Altep, Yhoat, and Vhazl gate crystals they are a "new type of gate crystal". Do teleports do not need crags. The Chamber of Oracles was probably just a city or outpost of some sort.

    http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Vahzl_gate_crystal

  4. #44
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutuyu
    Quote Originally Posted by Avé
    Quote Originally Posted by Toksyuryel
    Furthermore I am not entirely convinced that at the time of his death, he actually wanted to die. The game only provides that "However, the arrival of death implacable / brought an end to the God of Twilight." which implies that he didn't go emo and want to die. The next stanza "Aglow with the essence of love eternal, / the Dawn Goddess sought to restore the / lost divinity."
    The way I figured it was that Promathia had nothing to do and was fading away because of the empty-less Ziliart. So Altana gave Promathia a bigger part in life by putting some of his emptiness inside everyone, thus the Ziliart became mortal.

    3) Emptiness isn't related to Promathia. That's a misconception. The "Emptiness" always existed around the Sentient Crystal, Promathia was just one of the first beings to be "destroyed" (read: absorbed) by it. The light of the Sentient Crystal used to keep it at bay, but when it split, it was no longer capable of doing so.
    Don't they call the Emptiness 'The will of Promathia'? I always thought it meant that the emptiness was Promathia's way of making sure that we'll all die eventually.

    I may be wrong, there is a lot of CoP that just went way over my head.
    The problem with CoP was trying to seperate the nonsense that the NPCs in present day believe and the truth behind the matter. Many people refer to Emptiness as the will of Promathia or his curse. But they're not right; their opinions are predicated off of false knowledge.

    Emptiness can best be described by the verses of the Ley of Immortals.



    "It all began with a stone, or so the legend says.

    In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness.

    Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods.

    Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss until, after a time, the gods fell into slumber.

    That world was called Vana’diel.

    Our world, Vana’diel."


    Notice "banished the darkness." Later in CoP that verse is shown with "darkness" replaced by "emptiness." Thus Emptiness has always existed even when only the Sentient Crystal (which is the original of all things aside from Emptiness) existed.
    I was under the impression that Promathia became a vessel or something for the Emptiness, so perhaps it is more accurate to say that "Promathia became the will of the Emptiness"?

    The Chamber of Oracles was probably just a city or outpost of some sort.
    Probably just a temple/monastery for the Zilart (or the just the Dawnmaidens).

  5. #45
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    I don't believe she had been immortal for too long, as she and Ulmia grew up together as children in Tavnazia and Ulmia is still "in her prime".
    The first time Ulmia meets Prishe, Prishe was able to read her mind and console her on what's troubling her on one of the CS flashback.

    This would mean that she was already immortalized at this point, since her telepathic ability comes from her being a pseudo-zilart when her emptiness was crystallized.

    And just from psychological point of view, the fact in the ending CS, she was saying how she wanted apocalypse to happen so she can finally die, seem to show that she has grown tired of her immortal life, which would imply that she's been trapped on that form for a good amount of time.

  6. #46
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagacious Sundi
    I was under the impression that Promathia became a vessel or something for the Emptiness, so perhaps it is more accurate to say that "Promathia became the will of the Emptiness"?
    I'm sure you can find an NPC who says that, I mean the prevalant opinion of NPCs in modern-day is that Promathia is the cause and origin of Emptiness. But I don't think that's exactly true. If you look at Zilartian ideas about Promathia (which are obviously closer to the truth) they seem to have a totally different perspective on him.

  7. #47
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Then there is a cut-scene where it seems that in truth, the real one supposed to be the reincarnation of Promathia is you (the player).
    Totally don't recall this...
    Do you think SE had something like this in plan but then fell short on time and decided to cut ToAU plot and make it much more simple?
    Dear god, yes. There's so much based off of what NPCs say about Ramuh, the Olduum, the ruins in Aydeewa...

    Not to mention the speculation Gessho had about why the Astral Candescence was kept in such an easy place for the beastmen to come steal it from. Nothing ever really came of that.
    We learn in the final cutscene in blueblade fell that the magicite/emptiness was what made her (and all of us) mortal. So yes, that is why she stopped aging.
    I thought the idea was that emptiness makes you mortal, hence why the Kuluu and the five races of Altana are all mortal, while the Zilart are not.

    When Prishe's emptiness was crystallized into magicite by the Eye, it was no longer emptiness, and so she became immortal.

    That was how I remembered/interpreted it, anyway.

  8. #48
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by BRP
    If I'm correct Alzadaal fell only 800ish thousand years ago, making it almost impossible for them to be the same Zilart civilization.
    800.000 years ago? I remember it to be like 800ish years ago :O Not 800.000ish :D
    Yeah, 800.000 would be too long of a time probably, seems unlikely. 800ish instead would be too short, but we could say that Alza'daal could be a Zilart that somehow escaped the "slumber" that afflicted all zilarts when the gate of paradise mess happened. At least all the zilarts living in mindarthia/qu'on and nearby. Aradijah was very far, as well as the western continent (of which we know nothing) and the southern island continents, or the norhtern as well.
    Or we could also say that he's a zilart that "somehow" raised from his slumber before the "disturbance" (the Shadow lord thing that woke up all the other zilarts) and when he woke up he just went as far as possible and created a realm unifying nomad tribes, instead of waking up his friends.
    I mean, we could make many likely hypothesys, but we have no element at all.
    The only thing that got my suspects high is that somewhere (official sources, maybe even i-game) I saw Alzadaal spelled "Alza'daal", which is clearly a zilartian spelling and got my suspects high. Can't remember where I saw this tho, sorry.
    Of course, it's completely possible (very likely?) that I'm completely wrong and maybe that "Alza'daal" was just a typing error by some SE employee :D


    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien
    Need to rewatch some CS though, can't remember if Alzadaal was the emperor of Aht Urhgan or just the emperor of whatever existed on Aradjiah at the time.
    I'm pretty sure it's said that Alzadaal was emperor of the whole Aradijah empire, as much as it's said it was an empire so big that there were many independency conflicnts inside (meaning some zones/areas wanted to become independent and not part of the Aradijah empire anymore).
    That's probably when Far East and Near est divided in two.
    Oh and also, game always refers to "the far east", but as far as we know, Far east could include more "realms", and not just one. All we know is that the far east as a whole (be it one realm or more) is in war with the near est.

    Ephramad also, the realm from which prince Luzaf came from, could have been an internal part of the Alzadaal empire back when Alzadaal was alive, a part which was "fighting" to attain independance and obtained it.

  9. #49
    Old Odin
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Toksyuryel
    I am under the impression that Promathia's death would not have caused any problems for the world as it existed then. Furthermore I am not entirely convinced that at the time of his death, he actually wanted to die. The game only provides that "However, the arrival of death implacable / brought an end to the God of Twilight." which implies that he didn't go emo and want to die. The next stanza "Aglow with the essence of love eternal, / the Dawn Goddess sought to restore the / lost divinity." strongly lends the conclusion that Altana's reasons were much more selfish: she loved him, and couldn't bear his death. "Upon the fallen deity, Altana bestowed the / light of the true crystal." in order to save him she sucked the power out of the crystal and "used" it on him (somehow). This, however, did not bring him back to life as she had hoped but rather "In the bodies of mortals uncounted was / the Twilight God reborn." And since she sucked the power out of the crystal to do this, "The true crystal shattered into five parts, / its holy light extinguished. / Paradise was no longer. / Thus was born the world of Vana'diel." This implies that the crystal breaking into five pieces was not a deliberate action, but a result of her drawing out its power to try to restore her dead husband (its "holy light" had been "extinguished").
    Yes I concur, that's what I understood after finishing CoP back then.
    Still in some parts of the game there are hints that the "chains" of Promathia, are there to "stop" promathia committing suicide.
    It's a bit unclear, but it's because with many things in FFXI story, it's hard to tell between the "legend" and "what really happened", if you get what I mean.
    Also, it's full of metaphores and sometimes you don't get if what it's been said is just a metaphore, or a real reference to something real.

    This could be considered something like necromancy; Promathia was brought back from the dead in a twisted form and against his will. He longs for the sweet peace and rest of the eternal slumber that was stolen from him, and does not care at all for the world that was created so that he may continue to exist. Promathia's death does not portend the apocalypse; rather, the "apocalypse" is necessary for Promathia to die. When all five crystals have been reunited as one, the world of Vana'diel will be destroyed and paradise reborn. As this will kill every mortal creature, the emptiness will be free. It will return to the form of Promathia one last time, and he will return the light to the crystal to finally take his rest. Though in all likelihood, should the crystals be reunited, Altana would probably just do it all over again. I'd wager that this will happen (and probably has happened) again and again, until Altana finally gets over herself and realizes that if she truly loves Promathia she should let him take his rest (so really, Altana is the emo one in this scenario).
    Ahaha :D Yes.
    I like this explanation and combines both scenarios.
    The one where Promathia died of "natural" (can hardly speak of "nature" for a god) causes, Altana did that mess to restore him, and NOW he wants to die to return to the eternal sleep he longs for.

  10. #50
    Old Odin
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutuyu
    The problem with CoP was trying to seperate the nonsense that the NPCs in present day believe and the truth behind the matter. Many people refer to Emptiness as the will of Promathia or his curse. But they're not right; their opinions are predicated off of false knowledge.
    Exactely! It's very hard to tell from "legends" and "truth". A lot of the things NPCs tell us are what those NPCs really believe, but that doesn't mean it's really the truth.
    That works for most present-day NPCs, but in part also for the Zilart, I'm pretty sure they were wrong on a thing or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by jibini
    I thought the idea was that emptiness makes you mortal, hence why the Kuluu and the five races of Altana are all mortal, while the Zilart are not.
    I think the zilarts are mortals... they just age very slowly and in a different way than other mortals, and can live much much much longer than us. This is not uncoherent, Galkas already live averagely 200 years.
    As it was discussed in page 1... Before Vana'diel was created from the split of the crystals, there was a "paradise" (but according to the Ley of the immortals, this paradise too was called vana'diel?). In this paradise the gods were living, probably together with their "children" the zilarts.
    Then this world, "paradise", disappeared when the real Vana'diel was created, Zilart were shoot on this new planet, with mortal bodies, and no memories of their past.
    They "learn" of their past when Eald'narche touches the Al'taieu protocrystal if I recall, and hence they start their plan to reunite the crystals and become immortal and go back living with the gods once again.

    I think that, as much as they can live much longer, they can age and die naturally. Think about the facts there have been many dawn'maidens for example, for what reason if they never age or die?
    And the Kuluu they are not a different "race", as much as they changed/evolved over centuries/millenia. They were zilart without the ability to communicate mentally with other zilarts (the whisper of souls) because they had been affected by emptiness. How? I don't know.
    Appearently Zilarts are the only race who do not have Emptiness inside, and still they are mortal, I have no idea how because other than this I agree with you that the presence of emptiness inside living beings, is what makes them "mortal".

  11. #51
    Old Odin
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Badger
    This story talks about the origins of the Olduum civliization. Basically it's about a technologically advanced nation that lived in the eastern parts of the Buburimu Peninsula, though it's not clear if this civilization was the Olduum or not.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

    yea, I know it's the wiki...If anyone has a better link, I'd love to change it.
    Interesting... was this issue of Vana'diel tribune never translated? I hope they never stopped releasing Vana'diel tribune Appearently there was a lack of interest on it from players.
    But was this Ramuh just another guy with the same name as the avatar?
    Because the Ramuh we know is an avatar and resides inside the Thunder Protocrystal, and he was created at the same time as Vana'diel (the split of the mothercrystal) if I recall.
    How can a being... a living being of a civilization living on vana'diel become an avatar that, at that point, was supposed to exist already?

    Maybe they are two different guys which just share the same name? Or maybe this guy was given the name of the Avatar Ramuh, because he was a genius and he was using "electricity" for his creations.

  12. #52
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Badger
    This story talks about the origins of the Olduum civliization. Basically it's about a technologically advanced nation that lived in the eastern parts of the Buburimu Peninsula, though it's not clear if this civilization was the Olduum or not.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

    yea, I know it's the wiki...If anyone has a better link, I'd love to change it.
    Interesting... was this issue of Vana'diel tribune never translated?
    The stories surrounding Ifrit and co. were part of the early issues that were never officially translated. (This should so be the next Elmer project.) However, some history behind Carby and Fenrir were featured in English issues.

    But was this Ramuh just another guy with the same name as the avatar?
    Because the Ramuh we know is an avatar and resides inside the Thunder Protocrystal, and he was created at the same time as Vana'diel (the split of the mothercrystal) if I recall.
    How can a being... a living being of a civilization living on vana'diel become an avatar that, at that point, was supposed to exist already?

    Maybe they are two different guys which just share the same name? Or maybe this guy was given the name of the Avatar Ramuh, because he was a genius and he was using "electricity" for his creations.
    The exact truth behind the celestials and these legends are still unclear. We do know that avatars have the ability to manifest in lesser beings (See: Selh'teus, the Dark Rider, Alzadaal), so perhaps there were just these 8 gods that used 8 regular dudes as vessels. Regarding their names, those may not be the avatar's name, just the name of creature they manifested inside of.

    Also, the celestials were most definitely around before the split and are probably among the gods that "fell into slumber".

  13. #53

    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Also, the celestials were most definitely around before the split and are probably among the gods that "fell into slumber".
    I don't think so. We just don't know for how long the age of the ancients lasted before the meltdown. Probably hundreds of thousands of years. The Zilart as a race could have had different kingdoms that were in war wich each other (legend of Ifrit). And there were most likely other races around (some of them, like the Titans, are mentioned in the avatar legends. And also Shiva and Garuda come to my mind).
    It seems that the world was much more "classic fantasy" at that time. With all those giant beasts (like Leviathan and the terrestial avatars that came to power, and giant Fishes and Dragons, whose bones we can still see in Tharongi and Shakrami).
    In my interpretation of the story, the Zilart and Kuulu civilizations we know of, are just the outcome of a long process, until the meltdown 10.000 years ago, was like a "reboot" for the world.

  14. #54
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak
    Also, the celestials were most definitely around before the split and are probably among the gods that "fell into slumber".
    I don't think so. We just don't know for how long the age of the ancients lasted before the meltdown. Probably hundreds of thousands of years. The Zilart as a race could have had different kingdoms that were in war wich each other (legend of Ifrit). And there were most likely other races around (some of them, like the Titans, are mentioned in the avatar legends. And also Shiva and Garuda come to my mind).
    It seems that the world was much more "classic fantasy" at that time. With all those giant beasts (like Leviathan and the terrestial avatars that came to power, and giant Fishes and Dragons, whose bones we can still see in Tharongi and Shakrami).
    In my interpretation of the story, the Zilart and Kuulu civilizations we know of, are just the outcome of a long process, until the meltdown 10.000 years ago, was like a "reboot" for the world.
    Hmmm. Well, my interpretation of the avatar stories was that they took place during "our" times. (Post-Meltdown)
    And I would think they had to be around before the split, since that's apparently when the terrestrials were born and Carby calls the celestials "the old gods".

    But yeah, we don't really know how much time passed (past?) between the split and Eald's vision. I would guess long enough for the persuit for paradise to be forgotten, since according to Perih there was an earlier attempt to enter paradise.

  15. #55
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Badger
    This story talks about the origins of the Olduum civliization. Basically it's about a technologically advanced nation that lived in the eastern parts of the Buburimu Peninsula, though it's not clear if this civilization was the Olduum or not.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

    yea, I know it's the wiki...If anyone has a better link, I'd love to change it.
    It mentioned this was a highly advanced Civilization that flourished beacuse of Ramuhs inventions and it did say Ramuh waved the Staff of Olduum to beat back a beastmen hordes.

    -So if we assume this civilization was the Olduum then timeline wise this is after the Zilart/Kuluu.
    -The reason I say this is beacuse at the time of the Zilart there where no Beastmen.
    -The 5 races and the beastmen hoards are a side effect of the meltdown that mutated overtime Zilart/Kuluu survivors and animals alike into the many species we see today.
    -Just as we know from the ZM4 Cs after the Kuluu destoryed the northmost Ark(crag) in Xacabard those who survived made thier way to Temple Uggalepih (however you spell it) and eventully over time became the Tonberry's.

  16. #56
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxon
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Badger
    This story talks about the origins of the Olduum civliization. Basically it's about a technologically advanced nation that lived in the eastern parts of the Buburimu Peninsula, though it's not clear if this civilization was the Olduum or not.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

    yea, I know it's the wiki...If anyone has a better link, I'd love to change it.
    It mentioned this was a highly advanced Civilization that flourished beacuse of Ramuhs inventions and it did say Ramuh waved the Staff of Olduum to beat back a beastmen hordes.

    -So if we assume this civilization was the Olduum then timeline wise this is after the Zilart/Kuluu.
    -The reason I say this is beacuse at the time of the Zilart there where no Beastmen.
    -The 5 races and the beastmen hoards are a side effect of the meltdown that mutated overtime Zilart/Kuluu survivors and animals alike into the many species we see today.
    -Just as we know from the ZM4 Cs after the Kuluu destoryed the northmost Ark(crag) in Xacabard those who survived made thier way to Temple Uggalepih (however you spell it) and eventully over time became the Tonberry's.
    Actually, Shantoto said that the ruins in Aydeewa Subterrane were older than the Horutoto Ruins, so Olduum would have been built well before the Meltdown.

    One thing that you have to remember with the stories about the Avatars is that they are most likely fiction within the world of Vana'diel. The Avatars, Celestial and Terrestrial, all predated the Meltdown. The Celestial avatars fell into slumber when Altana split the crystal into the 5 mother crystals, so unless the stories recount events which predate that, they have to be treated as myths told by the people of Vana'diel.

  17. #57
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxon
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Badger
    This story talks about the origins of the Olduum civliization. Basically it's about a technologically advanced nation that lived in the eastern parts of the Buburimu Peninsula, though it's not clear if this civilization was the Olduum or not.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

    yea, I know it's the wiki...If anyone has a better link, I'd love to change it.
    It mentioned this was a highly advanced Civilization that flourished beacuse of Ramuhs inventions and it did say Ramuh waved the Staff of Olduum to beat back a beastmen hordes.

    -So if we assume this civilization was the Olduum then timeline wise this is after the Zilart/Kuluu.
    -The reason I say this is beacuse at the time of the Zilart there where no Beastmen.
    -The 5 races and the beastmen hoards are a side effect of the meltdown that mutated overtime Zilart/Kuluu survivors and animals alike into the many species we see today.
    -Just as we know from the ZM4 Cs after the Kuluu destoryed the northmost Ark(crag) in Xacabard those who survived made thier way to Temple Uggalepih (however you spell it) and eventully over time became the Tonberry's.
    Actually, Shantoto said that the ruins in Aydeewa Subterrane were older than the Horutoto Ruins, so Olduum would have been built well before the Meltdown.

    One thing that you have to remember with the stories about the Avatars is that they are most likely fiction within the world of Vana'diel. The Avatars, Celestial and Terrestrial, all predated the Meltdown. The Celestial avatars fell into slumber when Altana split the crystal into the 5 mother crystals, so unless the stories recount events which predate that, they have to be treated as myths told by the people of Vana'diel.
    -I agree with you about the fact that the story is a myth andn ot too be taken too literal.
    -However one thing that confused me was the fact that Beastmen & the 5 races are supposed to be the result of the meltdown flooding the planet with crystal radiation that mutated lifeforms.
    -So how could there have been beatsman attack? My only guess would be that the true Oldumm is pre-Zilart and the Ramuh guy may have discovered remnants of this tech and created this new empire on the Olduum tech

    ( I would have to rewatch the Cs to see what that crazy Taru said cause I dont remb)

  18. #58
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxon
    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxon
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Badger
    This story talks about the origins of the Olduum civliization. Basically it's about a technologically advanced nation that lived in the eastern parts of the Buburimu Peninsula, though it's not clear if this civilization was the Olduum or not.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

    yea, I know it's the wiki...If anyone has a better link, I'd love to change it.
    It mentioned this was a highly advanced Civilization that flourished beacuse of Ramuhs inventions and it did say Ramuh waved the Staff of Olduum to beat back a beastmen hordes.

    -So if we assume this civilization was the Olduum then timeline wise this is after the Zilart/Kuluu.
    -The reason I say this is beacuse at the time of the Zilart there where no Beastmen.
    -The 5 races and the beastmen hoards are a side effect of the meltdown that mutated overtime Zilart/Kuluu survivors and animals alike into the many species we see today.
    -Just as we know from the ZM4 Cs after the Kuluu destoryed the northmost Ark(crag) in Xacabard those who survived made thier way to Temple Uggalepih (however you spell it) and eventully over time became the Tonberry's.
    Actually, Shantoto said that the ruins in Aydeewa Subterrane were older than the Horutoto Ruins, so Olduum would have been built well before the Meltdown.

    One thing that you have to remember with the stories about the Avatars is that they are most likely fiction within the world of Vana'diel. The Avatars, Celestial and Terrestrial, all predated the Meltdown. The Celestial avatars fell into slumber when Altana split the crystal into the 5 mother crystals, so unless the stories recount events which predate that, they have to be treated as myths told by the people of Vana'diel.
    -I agree with you about the fact that the story is a myth andn ot too be taken too literal.
    -However one thing that confused me was the fact that Beastmen & the 5 races are supposed to be the result of the meltdown flooding the planet with crystal radiation that mutated lifeforms.
    -So how could there have been beatsman attack? My only guess would be that the true Oldumm is pre-Zilart and the Ramuh guy may have discovered remnants of this tech and created this new empire on the Olduum tech

    ( I would have to rewatch the Cs to see what that crazy Taru said cause I dont remb)

    I'm pretty sure Altana only created the 5 races and Beastmen as "vessels" for the emptyness, in order to save Promathia from death.

  19. #59
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    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Suteru
    I'm pretty sure Altana only created the 5 races and Beastmen as "vessels" for the emptyness, in order to save Promathia from death.
    That's the reason for the creation of mortals. The meltdown eventually mutated them into the creatures we know today.

  20. #60

    Re: FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

    One of the city missions clearly states that there have been crag-like ruins found somewhere in Teriggan...

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